POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 10

[Skuit 10,030]

2 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

There's more than an insinuation from you and other posters that Jack Watts somehow lacks the mental toughness that other players have - but I dispute this.

 

I have no need to insinuate anything Fifty-5. If I want to say something I'll just go ahead and say it. A fear of contact doesn't equate to mental weakness. Not fully applying oneself doesn't equate to mental weakness. One is instinctive and the other is a personal choice, and neither of them in of themselves are value judgements outside of cultural connotations. I'm afraid of spiders, but will happily swim in crocodile-inhabited waters. Weak, tough, stupid, I don't care. But if I want to live in the rain-forest, I have to learn to deal with spiders. I go about most of my life in a half-arsed fashion. Am I mentally weak because I have no interest in being a career high-flyer? Again, I don't particularly care. I tend not be half-arsed though if I'm part of a team, because I, personally, place a lot of self importance on pulling my weight when there are others involved. And I also get annoyed when I feel that someone else within my team isn't contributing their best effort, no matter how tough, weak, bright, stupid, skilled, friendly etc.they may be, because we naturally tend to judge others by the values we hold important to ourselves. 

[old55 23,358]

1 minute ago, Skuit said:

I have no need to insinuate anything Fifty-5. If I want to say something I'll just go ahead and say it. A fear of contact doesn't equate to mental weakness. Not fully applying oneself doesn't equate to mental weakness. One is instinctive and the other is a personal choice, and neither of them in of themselves are value judgements outside of cultural connotations. I'm afraid of spiders, but will happily swim in crocodile-inhabited waters. Weak, tough, stupid, I don't care. But if I want to live in the rain-forest, I have to learn to deal with spiders. I go about most of my life in a half-arsed fashion. Am I mentally weak because I have no interest in being a career high-flyer? Again, I don't particularly care. I tend not be half-arsed though if I'm part of a team, because I, personally, place a lot of self importance on pulling my weight when there are others involved. And I also get annoyed when I feel that someone else within my team isn't contributing their best effort, no matter how tough, weak, bright, stupid, skilled, friendly etc.they may be, because we naturally tend to judge others by the values we hold important to ourselves. 

Is Jack Watts "half-arsed" and not "pulling his weight" when he rucks against Aaron Sandilands, when he always goes back and nails the clutch goals under pressure, when he invariably hits an attacking target in traffic?

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

Give me a bloke that looks like Jack, who  look silky and non effortful - whilst able to hit targets and execute most times under pressure, rather than being an average bloke that busts his gut that works up a sweat working hard with limited precision.

[Gator 17,261]

3 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

And if you want to talk about mental toughness just look at Alex Fasalo. 

I don't know enough about depression, but I'm not sure you should draw such a conclusion. 

As for Jack ?  I'm more interested in the team and jumper than individual players UNLESS they're special players.  

I can take or leave Watts.   I'm certainly not emotionally invested in him.  But naturally I support anyone wearing red and blue.

Edited June 1, 2017 by ProDee

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I watched the "All The Goals" video on the MFC website, incredible to think that with 11 minutes left in the third quarter we were only on 32 points.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Clint Bizkit

[Adam The God 30,115]

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

I don't know enough about depression, but I'm not sure you should draw such a conclusion. 

As for Jack ?  I'm more interested in the team and jumper than individual players UNLESS they're special players.  

I can take or leave Watts.   I'm certainly not emotionally invested in him.  But naturally I support anyone wearing red and blue.

I agree. The Fasolo stuff is depression. A mental disorder. I don't know enough, but I know that much. You can't compare the case of Fasalo and the criticism Jack Watts has received for years and say one is softer than the other. It's missing the point. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by A F

[Deemented Are Go! 3,677]

Just now, A F said:

I agree. The Fasalo stuff is depression. A mental disorder. I don't know enough, but I know that much. You can't compare the case of Fasalo and the criticism Jack Watts has received for years and say one is softer than the other. It's missing the point. 

It seems Slobbo knows even less:

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

1 minute ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

It seems Slobbo knows even less:

Ahhh, the ol - "It appears he's functioning fine, ergo must be feeling fine - thus he's fixed... " viewpoint... effin cretin. But I guess all we can hope for is education education education.

[Deemented Are Go! 3,677]

Just now, Danelska said:

Ahhh, the ol - "It appears he's functioning fine, ergo must be feeling fine - thus he's fixed... " viewpoint... effin cretin. But I guess all we can hope for is education education education.

NFI. This tweet was deleted almost straight away, apparently.

Speaking of 'functioning fine', I wonder how long this loose cannon (slobbo) can keep up the charade? 

Depression/anxiety is usually inherently linked with addiction. Perhaps he ought to do some research for his own well being.....

Like you say DSka - education. 

[Chris 2,892]

43 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I don't know enough about depression, but I'm not sure you should draw such a conclusion. 

As for Jack ?  I'm more interested in the team and jumper than individual players UNLESS they're special players.  

I can take or leave Watts.   I'm certainly not emotionally invested in him.  But naturally I support anyone wearing red and blue.

I was going to make a similar point about metal illness not being due to mental weakness but didn't want to start another sh!tstorm like we had with Mitch. 

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

2 minutes ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

NFI. This tweet was deleted almost straight away, apparently.

Speaking of 'functioning fine', I wonder how long this loose cannon (slobbo) can keep up the charade? 

Depression/anxiety is usually inherently linked with addiction. Perhaps he ought to do some research for his own well being.....

Like you say DSka - education. 

If we go from a thoroughly compassionate standpoint towards Robbo, maybe his heart is in the right place as an act of support for the athlete - but geez its naive. And I'm not sure if Robbo has ever written an editorial on the fact that players don't ask to be role models yet they still are... and then shone the mirror up to himself...

[Demon Disciple 12,063]

Slobbo proving how much of a clue he does not have. The bloke is a disgrace. If it were an Essendon player and they had a sneeze, he'd defend them to the bitter end.

How that imbecile is the head footy writer in a major paper is still beyond me.

[Adam The God 30,115]

11 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

Slobbo proving how much of a clue he does not have. The bloke is a disgrace. If it were an Essendon player and they had a sneeze, he'd defend them to the bitter end.

How that imbecile is the head footy writer in a major paper is still beyond me.

Says everything about the readership of the Sun to me.

[binman 42,615]

18 minutes ago, Chris said:

I was going to make a similar point about metal illness not being due to mental weakness but didn't want to start another sh!tstorm like we had with Mitch. 

Same here. Though 99.9% of people know that having a mental health issue says zero about someone's mental strength. Well perhaps not zero. It suggests perhaps they are in fact likely to be very mentally strong given how difficult it can be to live with mental health issues. 

By the by the sun in dag control: 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/herald-sun-chief-football-writer-mark-robinson-apologises-for-alex-fasolo-tweet/news-story/de44beae7097ce7e4e5a3b93120cb7a7

What a moron. They shouldn't let him file his articles from the pub.

[beelzebub 23,313]

3 minutes ago, binman said:

What a moron. They shouldn't let him file articles.

Fixed

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

I don't know enough about depression,

Yes, misplaced comment, it wasn't meant to offend and if it did I apologise. 

I just find comments about "mental weakness" offensive when the person making the accusation has no idea what the mental state of the person is. 

The point I was making is I don't think Jack is mentally weak at all, in fact, quite the opposite.

But again, apologies to Alex, I wouldn't wish depression on anyone.

[Chris 2,892]

6 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Yes, misplaced comment, it wasn't meant to offend and if it did I apologise. 

I just find comments about "mental weakness" offensive when the person making the accusation has no idea what the mental state of the person is. 

The point I was making is I don't think Jack is mentally weak at all, in fact, quite the opposite.

But again, apologies to Alex, I wouldn't wish depression on anyone.

Contrary to popular belief, going through mental illness actually usually takes a serious amount of mental strength. The state of mind of someone with a mental illness can however be very fragile, that shouldn't be mistaken for weakness. I think you understand this but just wanted to point it out, certainly with no accusation to you though, this just seemed a good place to put this. 

To put it in a physical sense having a mental illness (which I haven't had but have people close to me who have) is like you are carrying around a 50kg sack all day while most of the rest of the population carry around 25kg. If you add something to the situation of everyone (such as a death of someone, or terrorist attack, or even something seemingly small) which adds 5kg to everyone's sack then the people carrying 50kg are going to struggle while the others don't. If you then add more weight the people carrying 50kg may break and be seen as weak even though they are actually carrying more than everyone else, and many people wouldn't even get to the 50kg stage before breaking. 

Living with a chronic illness is similar, there is a background amount of effort required that others don't have to deal with and little things to everyone else can be massive things due to that background weight. 

Sorry for the ramble but I think respectful conversations on topics like this are great for bringing more understanding. 

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

1 hour ago, A F said:

Says everything about the readership of the Sun to me.

I reckon it has to do with the boss as well.

A few backs the editor of the Herald Sun was on the radio and was talking about the media coverage of the Essendon saga. He said something like "They [Fairfax] had their story to tell and so did we". I almost ran off the road. I don't think the word 'objectivity' would have entered his mind.

The interview got a little awkward after that and moved on.

[P-man 13,366]

1 hour ago, Demon Disciple said:

Slobbo proving how much of a clue he does not have. The bloke is a disgrace. If it were an Essendon player and they had a sneeze, he'd defend them to the bitter end.

How that imbecile is the head footy writer in a major paper is still beyond me.

Just imagine Robbo's reaction if some other public figure had made that tweet. Soapbox would be set up. Pitchfork would be out. 

I've long thought Robbo's public and private views don't align. All the arm waving in the world can't mask his insincerity on social issues. Now we can add mental health to the pile.

He's just an ignorant oaf. If he was any dumber someone would have to water him. 

 

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

13 minutes ago, Chris said:

Contrary to popular belief, going through mental illness actually usually takes a serious amount of mental strength. The state of mind of someone with a mental illness can however be very fragile, that shouldn't be mistaken for weakness. I think you understand this but just wanted to point it out, certainly with no accusation to you though, this just seemed a good place to put this. 

To put it in a physical sense having a mental illness (which I haven't had but have people close to me who have) is like you are carrying around a 50kg sack all day while most of the rest of the population carry around 25kg. If you add something to the situation of everyone (such as a death of someone, or terrorist attack, or even something seemingly small) which adds 5kg to everyone's sack then the people carrying 50kg are going to struggle while the others don't. If you then add more weight the people carrying 50kg may break and be seen as weak even though they are actually carrying more than everyone else, and many people wouldn't even get to the 50kg stage before breaking. 

Living with a chronic illness is similar, there is a background amount of effort required that others don't have to deal with and little things to everyone else can be massive things due to that background weight. 

Sorry for the ramble but I think respectful conversations on topics like this are great for bringing more understanding. 

I've posted on this before - I've lived with clinical depression for a few years now. I posted a few times in Mitch threads, it was mostly respectful as you say, with only the occasional exception.

This is the best way I've found so far of trying to express it to those who don't have it

Honestly most days I'm just happy I can function as a human being and do normal stuff - go to work, pick up the kids from school etc. There was a stretch where I couldn't so much as play with my own kids. 

I can't speak for Fasolo, but if he's managing to even GET to training, that's a massively positive sign that he can get back on the park.

Best of luck to him.

 

[Chris 2,892]

3 minutes ago, Choke said:

I've posted on this before - I've lived with clinical depression for a few years now. I posted a few times in Mitch threads, it was mostly respectful as you say, with only the occasional exception.

This is the best way I've found so far of trying to express it to those who don't have it

Honestly most days I'm just happy I can function as a human being and do normal stuff - go to work, pick up the kids from school etc. There was a stretch where I couldn't so much as play with my own kids. 

I can't speak for Fasolo, but if he's managing to even GET to training, that's a massively positive sign that he can get back on the park.

Best of luck to him.

 

I know that feeling, not from a depression point of view but from a chronic illness point of view, I have Menieres disease, an illness that leaves me exhausted most of the time and at constant risk of an attack, which are completely debilitating and while going are said to lower your quality of life to that of someone close to death from cancer (luckily for me my attacks generally last multiple hours and not days like some unlucky people get), that's not to mention the brain fog that comes and goes but can make simple things very confusing and difficult to do, and the constant ringing in my ears that is sometimes so loud it keeps me awake at night.

Depression and anxiety are common among Menieres sufferers but is something I have dodged to date, thankfully. Best of luck to you getting through.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

1 hour ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

NFI. This tweet was deleted almost straight away, apparently.

Speaking of 'functioning fine', I wonder how long this loose cannon (slobbo) can keep up the charade? 

Depression/anxiety is usually inherently linked with addiction. Perhaps he ought to do some research for his own well being.....

Like you say DSka - education. 

Jeff Kennett spoke about this on SEN the other day as ambassador for Beyondblue. He said something along the lines of everybody being different but addiction, depression and anxiety can be an axis of evil entered to from any starting point but often transitions into a triangular cycle of all 3.

 

[Diamond_Jim 12,527]

2 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I watched the "All The Goals" video on the MFC website, incredible to think that with 11minutes left in the third quarter we were only on 32 points.

Good observation CB

watching the replay I thought the first half of the third quarter is where the GC really got on top with their run and carry. Luckily they only scored two goals during that time and of course had Bernie not made the intercept the Suns were on the way to another.

As to Q2 we kicked 2 goals 7 so it wasn't that we weren't getting the ball into our forward 50. Of those two goals one came early and the other in the last few seconds so it looked even worse.

In hindsight it should have been a much easier win but halfway into that third quarter there were very few happy Demon followers.

[old55 23,358]

4 hours ago, Skuit said:

I have no need to insinuate anything Fifty-5. If I want to say something I'll just go ahead and say it. A fear of contact doesn't equate to mental weakness. Not fully applying oneself doesn't equate to mental weakness. One is instinctive and the other is a personal choice, and neither of them in of themselves are value judgements outside of cultural connotations. I'm afraid of spiders, but will happily swim in crocodile-inhabited waters. Weak, tough, stupid, I don't care. But if I want to live in the rain-forest, I have to learn to deal with spiders. I go about most of my life in a half-arsed fashion. Am I mentally weak because I have no interest in being a career high-flyer? Again, I don't particularly care. I tend not be half-arsed though if I'm part of a team, because I, personally, place a lot of self importance on pulling my weight when there are others involved. And I also get annoyed when I feel that someone else within my team isn't contributing their best effort, no matter how tough, weak, bright, stupid, skilled, friendly etc.they may be, because we naturally tend to judge others by the values we hold important to ourselves. 

Is Nathan Jones "half-arsed" and "not pulling his weight" when he misses targets under no real pressure against North Melbourne?

Is Tomas Bugg "half-arsed" and "not pulling his weight" when he misses easy set shots against North Melbourne and Gold Coast?

[DemonOX 8,779]

This season I have found the commentators really disappointing tbh, more so than previous seasons.

Some of them constantly get players names wrong or constantly dribble on about something that is not related to what's happening on the field or are more barracking for a team than commentating or their "special" comments aren't very "special" at all.

Just because former players were stars doesn't necessarily mean they can commentate. 

In saying the above my only real fav commentator is Gerard Whateley.