Manchester Bombing

[dieter 3,325]

25 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Dieter- a good article today in Takimag about how conspiracy theories strengthen existing governments.

There is another article about a Norwegian male rape victim who didn't want his attacker sent back to Africa-because he thought that was a cruel piece of punishment .

The victim was a left wing politician so it makes sense.

Thought of you both times.

 

 

Reminds me of the scene in 'Where's Poppa?' where the male rape victim goes back to the park with flowers. for his attacker. 

Not so sure I'm glad you're thinking of me in those contexts, 'you don't even know me'.

Are you really turning Romsey mansion into a mosque?

[dieter 3,325]

On 6/11/2017 at 0:03 PM, Wrecker45 said:

Dieter - I googled "building 7" and the third link was an article about a newly released video under a FOI request that disproves the conspiracy theories.

It doesn't surprise me that you want to blame the West though it is your default position.

 

Dear Wrecker of the Hesperus

You may note, dear chap, that the 27 storey apartment block in London is still intact though every square inch of the building caught fire. As most architects will tell you that there is nothing special about that, it's part of the architectural superstructure, if you like. You who, I presume, has no architectural   proclivities or qualifications- you are a Wrecker by definition - use the above link to disprove that Building 7 on the World Trade Center site was brought down by controlled demolition. The above link, as you are well aware, simply points out there were extensive fires in the lower part of the building. Please recall that the official reason that the Twin Towers collapsed was because of the heat from the fuel of those dastards flying the planes. Recall, please, that no plane hit building 7. 

I presume you have kept your head in the sand about this, coming up for air only to wreak invective on the likes of me who point out that bulldust is bulldust.

Keep sniping, Wreck, keep sniping while Rome literally burns.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

11 hours ago, dieter said:

Dear Wrecker of the Hesperus

You may note, dear chap, that the 27 storey apartment block in London is still intact though every square inch of the building caught fire. As most architects will tell you that there is nothing special about that, it's part of the architectural superstructure, if you like. You who, I presume, has no architectural   proclivities or qualifications- you are a Wrecker by definition - use the above link to disprove that Building 7 on the World Trade Center site was brought down by controlled demolition. The above link, as you are well aware, simply points out there were extensive fires in the lower part of the building. Please recall that the official reason that the Twin Towers collapsed was because of the heat from the fuel of those dastards flying the planes. Recall, please, that no plane hit building 7. 

I presume you have kept your head in the sand about this, coming up for air only to wreak invective on the likes of me who point out that bulldust is bulldust.

Keep sniping, Wreck, keep sniping while Rome literally burns.

If you can't see the difference between the fire at and around the twin towers and the fire of a high rise in London with flammable cladding there is a reason you believe in flying saucers.

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, Wrecker45 said:

If you can't see the difference between the fire at and around the twin towers and the fire of a high rise in London with flammable cladding there is a reason you believe in flying saucers.

You miss the point, dear chappie. Let's just focus on Building 7 where there was fire on just a few floors- next thing - whoosh, the building has collapsed like a pancake in one and a half seconds. How can this happen, Mr Wrecker? And, how comes it that the London building still stands despite the whole building incinerating.???????

[Wrecker45 3,378]

3 minutes ago, dieter said:

You miss the point, dear chappie. Let's just focus on Building 7 where there was fire on just a few floors- next thing - whoosh, the building has collapsed like a pancake in one and a half seconds. How can this happen, Mr Wrecker? And, how comes it that the London building still stands despite the whole building incinerating.???????

Dieter - you miss the point. There is no comparison between the two buildings, construction or type of fire. To compare them demonstrates you don't have the slightest idea on the topic.

I have no interest in building 7. Everyone has seen the footage of the planes flying into the twin towers, the people on the planes that were hijacked made calls and sent txt's, Osama has claimed responsibility. It is open and shut. One only has to look at your track record of posting to see you have an anti-American bias so excuse me if I don't take a great interest in building 7 because you buy into some crazy left wing, anti-American conspiracy.

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, Wrecker45 said:

Dieter - you miss the point. There is no comparison between the two buildings, construction or type of fire. To compare them demonstrates you don't have the slightest idea on the topic.

I have no interest in building 7. Everyone has seen the footage of the planes flying into the twin towers, the people on the planes that were hijacked made calls and sent txt's, Osama has claimed responsibility. It is open and shut. One only has to look at your track record of posting to see you have an anti-American bias so excuse me if I don't take a great interest in building 7 because you buy into some crazy left wing, anti-American conspiracy.

If you don't wanna know about building 7 because I have anti american bias, you're the one who is pulling de woollen beanie over your own eyes.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

1 hour ago, dieter said:

If you don't wanna know about building 7 because I have anti american bias, you're the one who is pulling de woollen beanie over your own eyes.

I don't wanna know about building 7 because I live in the real world. Peter Pan and Tinkerbell say hi.

[dieter 3,325]

20 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

I don't wanna know about building 7 because I live in the real world. Peter Pan and Tinkerbell say hi.

I know for a fact that Pierre Pan and Tinkerbell are fictitious characters. But, I guess, it's okay to have imaginary friends, they were a great comfort to my daughter when she was three.

Your imaginary friend, The USA is a bigger problem though, because he is a bad influence and will get you into trouble. For example, your friend The USA told you big lies about Iraq and look at the consequences....

Edited June 16, 2017 by dieter

[Crompton's the man 635]

On 11/06/2017 at 4:36 PM, ProDee said:

It's important for people to read the following:

An Egyptian woman under the pen name Magda Borham wrote a letter to Western countries, warning them of their immediate danger from Islamic invasion via “immigration.” And she has a brutal message for Americans. 

Having lived in Egypt for more than 30 years, she states: “Nobody else in the world knows Islam and the mentality of Muslims more than those who have suffered by having Islam as a part of their life. “If you listen to the cries of the Copts of Egypt, the Christians of Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Pakistan and all the other Muslim countries, you will hear the descriptions of the horrors of Islam. “See and feel the tears of the minorities in every Islamic society. These tears will tell you the true stories of Islam. Hear the blood of the ex-Muslims pounding. It’s their blood that is shouting out every single second, asking the rest of the world to ‘Wake up!'”

She clarifies what few Americans understand: Islam is not a religion. Islam is a totalitarian political ideology that rejects the basic principles of freedom and liberty protected by the U.S. Constitution. In fact, Islam is the clearest and most present danger to America’s existence. 

She explains the suffering of minorities, including herself as a woman who has lived through Egypt’s transformation into an Islamic country. She writes: 
“Like so many others, I have been burned by this transformation. This transformation has seen me witness and experience Islam turn my home country to ruins and its followers are now threatening to bring the same fate to your own country. “Islam is a supremacist, racist political and social ideology wrapped in a thin peel of religious rituals. It seeks domination and supremacy over all other systems and religions. Islam is worse than Nazism and fascism systems combined without any doubt.” 

She warns Americans that they will suffer the same fate unless they end the senseless immigration policies that are enabling Muslims to freely invade with the intention of destroying America from within. She points to decades of failed liberal policies that have eroded American values, which she argues Muslims are using against Americans to their own detriment. 

Her message is brutal and straightforward: 

“Muslims use your own democratic laws and values against you, and they do it successfully while you keep sleeping as if as in a deep coma. This is why the leftists are the people who are worthy of the title ‘useful idiots.’ They are in a perpetual state of shame and self-loathing and will be the first victims of Islam once it takes over. 
“Muslims use them as a stick to beat you with, but even they will never ever be accepted as friends to the Muslims after, and they will definitely be their first victims. Leftists, liberals, progressives, Antifa, Code Pink and so on are all appeasers of Islam. Appeasing evil is cowardice. They are fooled people who feed crocodiles, hoping they will eat them last. They are the enemy within your countries. 

“Your country is like your house; you expect visitors who come to your house to respect you and respect your rules, not the opposite. Visitors must appreciate your kindness and your generosity for receiving them into your home and not imposing their own rules on you. This is your house, you own it, so you have the obligation to protect it and defend it. 

If the visitor doesn’t like your rules, all he has to do is to leave. Nobody obliged him to visit you, and nobody will prevent him from leaving. As he came to your house by his own choice, he can leave your house freely or by force, if required.” 

And she notes that Islam is rooted in racism and bigotry. The labels Muslims use against non-Muslims (Islamaphobic, bigot, racist), she says, are actually a reflection of Islamic ideology. 

Islam is the only religion/ideology that specifically orders its followers to kill Jews and Christians, an obvious hate crime. 

“One final thing you must be aware of. Muslims are projectors of themselves. They accuse you of what they truly are. They accuse you of being racist, while they are themselves racist. Islam is all about racism. They accuse you to be a hater, while they themselves hate unconditionally. Islam is full of hatred incitement and violence. They accuse you of being a bigot, while Muslims act supremacism and are bigotry themselves. 

“Remember, Muslims love and need to portray themselves always as ‘victims.’ This is their greatest weapon against you in the west. Victimhood enables them to act violently and give them the pretext to attack non-Muslims around the world. It fuels them more and more with hate. 

“This hate generates more violence. Additionally to this victimhood allow them to silence you and stop you from resisting their agenda. This is why the easiest thing for them is to label those who criticize Islam or reveal its reality as ‘racist’ an ‘Islamophobe’ or ‘bigot.'”

 

Now Jara, I doubt this will resonate with Leftists, because they (you) support a side at all costs, rather than a principle, but to anyone else who cares about their children and their country they'd do well to understand that Islam is evil and won't stop until their population in the West grows to a level where their dominance cannot be curtailed. 

I hasten to add there are moderate Muslims who just want to live in pace, however, as Christopher Caldwell notes:

“The Muslim community is not to be confused with the terrorists it produces. But left to its own, it probably lacks the means, the inclination and the courage to stand up to the faction, however small, that supports terrorism.”

The moderates know ISIS is acting out the literal meanings from the Qur'an and hadith, which is why they say little.  We're importing people from Middle Eastern countries where over 80% agree with stoning for adulterers and death to apostates.  It's utter madness.

To Islam the Left are useful idiots, unfortunately they're helping to put our own citizens lives at risk.

As for your silly question re muslims feeling resentful to the West ?  Islam wants sharia to dominate the world and whether you're nice or mean the objective remains the same.

You really need to school yourself on Islam.  

I really have hesitated to contribute to this discussion because of the almost-funny absurdity of apologism for murder and the pustulent criticism of anyone prepared to acknowledge what is as clear, evident and true presented as a dupe of a cosmic conspiracy.

That said, I actually try to think about these issues and in the course of discussion with one of my business clients who, as it happens, is involved in the Greens political movement, I mused that it seems to me that the missing link in the defusing of the drive for Islamic attackers is the failure of the Imams to proclaim that this is not in fact the pathway to glory and that such an approach is not representative of Islam.

i was sincerely surprised when after being challenged as to whether I had read the Quran (to which question I felt I had to reply honestly (a concept that may elude some contributors to this discussion)  that I have read parts but not the whole.

"Well, I have.

I lived in an Islamic state for thirty years and I can tell you that the reason the preachers don't stand up and say what you are suggesting is that everyone with any knowledge of Islam knows that they would have no credibility whatsoever because when unbelievers' headers are hacked off this is EXACTLY what the Quran tells them to do, right down to details like holding the blade over their heads before striking."

i suggested that if he has knowledge of this sort of stuff that he should call 774 and speak to Jon Faine or Raphael Epstein and he snorted and said  that they would cut him off like a ripe banana - the suggestion being that there are forces out there attempting to prevent dissemination of information such as this.

Now I am fond of conspiracy theories and I can only suppose that this tree-hugging Greenie-voting  life-experienced person has been hoodwinked by the CIA into believing that these newspaper reports of people being hacked to death  - whether they be Copts or Londoners or Melburnians - are all lies  : or in the alternative they killed themselves in order to make an innocent subculture look bad (most likely the latter).

But my motive for making a contribution is this :  any reading of this thread  material demonstrates an inability by some players to engage in nuanced debate about complex matters and the demonstrated  shrill denunciation of any person who dares express a different view can turn out to be the harbinger of totalitarianism

 

lest we forget.

Let us not be useful idiots 

Please

Edited June 16, 2017 by Crompton's the man
Sp

[dieter 3,325]

9 hours ago, Crompton's the man said:

I really have hesitated to contribute to this discussion because of the almost-funny absurdity of apologism for murder and the pustulent criticism of anyone prepared to acknowledge what is as clear, evident and true presented as a dupe of a cosmic conspiracy.

That said, I actually try to think about these issues and in the course of discussion with one of my business clients who, as it happens, is involved in the Greens political movement, I mused that it seems to me that the missing link in the defusing of the drive for Islamic attackers is the failure of the Imams to proclaim that this is not in fact the pathway to glory and that such an approach is not representative of Islam.

i was sincerely surprised when after being challenged as to whether I had read the Quran (to which question I felt I had to reply honestly (a concept that may elude some contributors to this discussion)  that I have read parts but not the whole.

"Well, I have.

I lived in an Islamic state for thirty years and I can tell you that the reason the preachers don't stand up and say what you are suggesting is that everyone with any knowledge of Islam knows that they would have no credibility whatsoever because when unbelievers' headers are hacked off this is EXACTLY what the Quran tells them to do, right down to details like holding the blade over their heads before striking."

i suggested that if he has knowledge of this sort of stuff that he should call 774 and speak to Jon Faine or Raphael Epstein and he snorted and said  that they would cut him off like a ripe banana - the suggestion being that there are forces out there attempting to prevent dissemination of information such as this.

Now I am fond of conspiracy theories and I can only suppose that this tree-hugging Greenie-voting  life-experienced person has been hoodwinked by the CIA into believing that these newspaper reports of people being hacked to death  - whether they be Copts or Londoners or Melburnians - are all lies  : or in the alternative they killed themselves in order to make an innocent subculture look bad (most likely the latter).

But my motive for making a contribution is this :  any reading of this thread  material demonstrates an inability by some players to engage in nuanced debate about complex matters and the demonstrated  shrill denunciation of any person who dares express a different view can turn out to be the harbinger of totalitarianism

 

lest we forget.

Let us not be useful idiots 

Please

I'm not sure about what to make of your reply.

You seem to be saying that the Koran demands that Muslims kill 'unbelievers'. 

I'm also not sure about the relevance of having read  the Koran or not having read all of the Koran. Have you also read every word of our holy bible, of the Torah and the Talmud?

In all of these texts you'll find exhortations to perform the most extreme acts of barbarity in so-called infidels, or gentiles, or non-christians.

So what?

As Choke pointed out it took 20 minutes of google search to find numerous examples of Muslim clerics preaching peace and tolerance.

Then again, look up a website called  'Ugly Truth' and you will find numerous examples of Rabbis exhorting Jews to murder Palestinians. 

So what? 

And just listen to the likes of Pauline Hanson, a right and proper christian, and you'll wonder just why christians pretend to be tolerant or peace loving.

( Also, I almost burst out laughing when you mentioned reporting to Fain and Epstein, as though these dudes are the paragon of truth and justice: I'll just nominate Fain's reply to Malcolm Fraser about the USS Liberty which the Israelis tried for two and a half hours to sink during the 67 War. Fraser said it was an example of rogue Israeli behaviour, Fain said three times, It was an accident. Go Johnie! )

What most of the anti muslim hysteria boils down to on this site is a great failure to comprehend, let alone, of trying to comprehend  the history and the context  of these attacks. Because if you took the trouble to find the real cause you'd have to come to the conclusion that the real cause of so-called Terrorism is the reaction of the weak and the helpless to the much greater terror inflicted on them.

Leunig's cartoon in the Age recently hit the nail on the head. It alluded to the terror inflicted on the world by British bombs.

Why does no-body on this site discuss our Terrorism, USA terrorism, etc etc?

The answer to that, I believe, unfortunately, is that we sit in comfortable armchairs and we're quite happy to follow countries like the USA into any war, we're quite happy for them to bomb countries into oblivion, with our token contribution, as long as these 'terrorist' never bite back. In other words, we are a 'civilisation' which either can't or won't confront itself in the mirror of justice.

Therefore we forget that everybody has a right to peace and justice, not just christian white men.

 

Edited June 17, 2017 by dieter

[Gator 16,891]

12 hours ago, Crompton's the man said:

I really have hesitated to contribute to this discussion because of the almost-funny absurdity of apologism for murder and the pustulent criticism of anyone prepared to acknowledge what is as clear, evident and true presented as a dupe of a cosmic conspiracy.

That said, I actually try to think about these issues and in the course of discussion with one of my business clients who, as it happens, is involved in the Greens political movement, I mused that it seems to me that the missing link in the defusing of the drive for Islamic attackers is the failure of the Imams to proclaim that this is not in fact the pathway to glory and that such an approach is not representative of Islam.

i was sincerely surprised when after being challenged as to whether I had read the Quran (to which question I felt I had to reply honestly (a concept that may elude some contributors to this discussion)  that I have read parts but not the whole.

"Well, I have.

I lived in an Islamic state for thirty years and I can tell you that the reason the preachers don't stand up and say what you are suggesting is that everyone with any knowledge of Islam knows that they would have no credibility whatsoever because when unbelievers' headers are hacked off this is EXACTLY what the Quran tells them to do, right down to details like holding the blade over their heads before striking."

i suggested that if he has knowledge of this sort of stuff that he should call 774 and speak to Jon Faine or Raphael Epstein and he snorted and said  that they would cut him off like a ripe banana - the suggestion being that there are forces out there attempting to prevent dissemination of information such as this.

Now I am fond of conspiracy theories and I can only suppose that this tree-hugging Greenie-voting  life-experienced person has been hoodwinked by the CIA into believing that these newspaper reports of people being hacked to death  - whether they be Copts or Londoners or Melburnians - are all lies  : or in the alternative they killed themselves in order to make an innocent subculture look bad (most likely the latter).

But my motive for making a contribution is this :  any reading of this thread  material demonstrates an inability by some players to engage in nuanced debate about complex matters and the demonstrated  shrill denunciation of any person who dares express a different view can turn out to be the harbinger of totalitarianism

 

lest we forget.

Let us not be useful idiots 

Please

I've done quite a lot of research on the Qur'an, Islam and the Hadiths.  I've also researched Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims and it's fair to say they hate each other.

Most leftists fight for a side and not a principle and most are utterly clueless about Islam, so there's little point debating the ignorant.

Israel-hating leftist weirdos are Islam's great enablers.  The useful idiots.  Here's a quick 101 lesson on the Left:

The Left want to tear down western civilisation, because they think it’s unequal and radical Muslims want to tear down western civilisation, because they think it’s evil.  One side wants to be a caliphate and the other wants to be a communist utopia.  The reason that the Left invariably ends up siding with the world’s worst human beings in every situation is because of their fundamental principle that equality of outcome is all that matters in life, equality of outcome means that something just is happening. 

The Left believes that less successful people are more virtuous.  That means that the non-virtuous in their eyes are more virtuous.  The left sees those unsuccessful less virtuous people, who are generally not doing good responsible things, as victims, so they must be helped.  They see the Muslims in the middle east as the victims of Israel.  And they’re the victims of Israel, because Israel is rich.  The Muslims are not rich, so they must be victims.

No-one is a better person when they’re poor.  No-one is a better person when they’re rich.  Wealth is just a measure of how many voluntary exchanges you’ve engaged in in a free market.  The ideal for the Left is that all inequality is evil, therefore the people at the top who are unequal are evil and the people at the bottom are virtuous.

That's a quick 101 lesson of leftism, which I believe is a mental illness.

They are nearly all incredibly stupid, many are the totalitarian fascists they think they're railing against, and most are absorbed in identity politics.

But hey, they protect the downtrodden, so they're virtuous, right ?  

No, just thick as bricks. 

[Jara 1,149]

Prodee, a lot of pointless generalisations there, too many to reply to. I mean - the left is a mental illness? Where's your evidence for that? Pointless.

 

Left and right, they're both just political stances, they've both got a role to play in creating the reasonable society we enjoy today (my own pointless generalisation, for what it's worth, is that the Right tends to create wealth, the left ensures that it doesn't all accrete to people like Rupert Murdoch. So you can thank the left that you've got an eight-hour day, the right that you get well paid for it.)

[Gator 16,891]

22 minutes ago, Jara said:

Prodee, a lot of pointless generalisations there, too many to reply to. I mean - the left is a mental illness? Where's your evidence for that? Pointless.

 

Left and right, they're both just political stances, they've both got a role to play in creating the reasonable society we enjoy today (my own pointless generalisation, for what it's worth, is that the Right tends to create wealth, the left ensures that it doesn't all accrete to people like Rupert Murdoch. So you can thank the left that you've got an eight-hour day, the right that you get well paid for it.)

The mental illness bit is just a personal opinion.  It's not scientific, although ...

If you like, you can pretend that bit isn't there.  

[Gator 16,891]

Any country that knowingly starts filling up their society with middle eastern Muslims has fools for leaders.  How cohesive do you think society is when the Muslim population reaches 10% ?  Sweden is the rape capital of the world.  France has 750 "no go" zones.  You left-wing lunatics will be the death of the West.  But, of course, that's what many Israel-hating Leftist loonies want.  

America has a similar Muslim population to Australia, so the below content is just as relevant here.

 

51% of Muslims living in the U.S. this June (2015) told Polling Co. they preferred having “the choice of being governed according to Shariah,” or Islamic law. 60% of Muslim-Americans under 30 told Pew Research they’re more loyal to Islam than America.

• Muzammil Siddiqi, chairman of both the Fiqh Council of North America, which dispenses Islamic rulings, and the North American Islamic Trust, which owns most of the mosques in the U.S.: “As Muslims, we should participate in the system to safeguard our interests and try to bring gradual change, (but) we must not forget that Allah’s rules have to be established in all lands, and all our efforts should lead to that direction.”

• Omar Ahmad, co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the top Muslim lobby group in Washington: “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Quran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.”

• CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper: “I wouldn’t want to create the impression that I wouldn’t like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future.”

• Imam Siraj Wahhaj, director of the Muslim Alliance in North America: “In time, this so-called democracy will crumble, and there will be nothing. And the only thing that will remain will be Islam.”

• Imam Zaid Shakir, co-founder of Zaytuna College in Berkeley, Calif.: “If we put a nationwide infrastructure in place and marshalled our resources, we’d take over this country in a very short time. . . . What a great victory it will be for Islam to have this country in the fold and ranks of the Muslims.”

[Jara 1,149]

Wow. Bunch of cut and pastes from Breitbart. Very impressive. I'm converted.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Jara

[Gator 16,891]

4 minutes ago, Jara said:

Bunch of cut and pastes from Breitbart. Very reliable source.

So if they can be proven you'd agree there's an issue ?

I acknowledge you're desperate to hold the view these things aren't true, but what if they are true ?

Nah, don't bother replying.  As I said, leftism is a mental illness.  Conversing with you and other leftists is an utter waste of time.  Whereas I'm a conservative who can readily disagree with other conservatives leftists fight for a side and not a principle.

The most disingenuous addle-pates ever put on this planet.

[Jara 1,149]

You must have misread my post. I just told you - I'm converted. The sheer logic of your argument has won me over. Deport em all. My only worry - who's going to tell Bashir Houli?  (Bags not) 

[dieter 3,325]

1 minute ago, Jara said:

You must have misread my post. I just told you - I'm converted. The sheer logic of your argument has won me over. Deport em all. My only worry - who's going to tell Bashir Houli?  (Bags not) 

I think, in the end, your surrender is the only option for mental midgets like you and me. Ever tried to argue with a 7th Day Adventist? Or someone who believes the earth is flat? Or someone who believes God was a real estate agent who gave them the land of Israel? It's just pointless. People like them - and Biffen and Pro Dee - know all there is to know on the subject, so there. They have Papal omniscience, you see. I believe God gave them that gift even though they're nor popes.

[Gator 16,891]

I didn't write the following, but it also needs to be shared.  Don't bother sharing it with a leftist, as there's no hope for them, but for a normal centrist there's much to learn about Islam.

 

Q on: The Islamisation of Australia. Process, Methods & Tactics.

Islam is a totalitarian ideology veiled in religion. Under that veil is also a comprehensive system of
laws, politics and socio-cultural rules being promoted and applied under the guise and protection of
religious freedom. This religious front acts as a 'Trojan Horse', whose aim is to make Islam the
dominant cultural, legal, political and religious force in Australia.

The process outlined below can be likened to the “boiled frog syndrome”, wherein a frog is put into
cold water and as the temperature rises very slowly, the frog doesn't notice until it is too late and the frog is boiled. So how does the Islamisation process work?

Stage 1: The Religion of Islam spreads
As a missionary religion, Islam has a strong doctrinal mandate to spread worldwide and impose its
Sharia laws. And freedom of religion in free, democratic countries enables Islam to fulfil this
mission. It must be noted however that freedom of religion, exercised in free countries, is not
actually a feature of Islam itself, which has no separation of religion and state, and calls for the
execution of Muslims who choose to leave Islam. Changing ones religion is not just considered a
sin, but a crime against the state, which is why it is akin to treason and punishable by death. It is
this unity of religion and state in Islam that runs contrary to the spirit of the Australian Constitution
and why Islamic missionary activity threatens the foundations of Australia.

Not only is the religious veil cast over Islam's system of law and governance, it is also cast over
historical figures like Abraham, Moses and Jesus; who are presented as Muslims. Yet despite
serious core differences, the appropriation of such figures emboldens Islam to present itself in
Australia as an Abrahamic faith. A somewhat upgraded version in the same theological suite as
Judaism and Christianity; when actually it undermines and even ridicules both. As it gains
legitimacy by making such claims and the Muslim population rises quickly through unrelenting
migration and high birth rates, parts of Sharia law and Islamic courts are demanded by self-imposed
Islamic community leaders, so that Muslims can observe their religion. But this is where Islam
reveals that it is actually more than a religion and begins challenging Australian law and the core
value of 'one law for all'. Now the temperature starts to rise.

Stage 2: Sharia Law is established

At first, Islamic courts operate to handle seemingly innocuous matters such as family disputes
where Islamic doctrine applies to Muslims only. However, as Sharia law is discriminatory by nature
and upholds behaviour which secular Australian courts would criminalise, this clearly leaves some
Muslim Australians vulnerable to injustice. In Britain today, there are examples of non-Muslim men
taking a family dispute to a Sharia court because of the better deal they are likely to receive. In
Australia there are already calls to legalise the practises of polygamy and FGM, although already
practised, because Sharia allows this. Veiling the face is another issue always close to the surface,
as is segregation in prayer rooms, toilets, swimming pools and other public buildings.

There is a huge social cost to imposing Sharia standards quite apart from segregated communities.
Europe is experiencing a rape epidemic for starters due to the perception that under Sharia law a
Muslim man is immune from punishment for raping a non-Muslim woman. This is not unfair
speculation, the former Australian Mufti, Sheikh Hilaly, confirmed this when he called uncovered
women "cat's meat". And the calls for more and more aspects of Sharia law will continue, all under
the guise of “freedom of religion”.  The temperature is rising faster now.

Stage 3: Political Islam is established
Muslims will not submit to man-made laws such as those made in a democracy if they feel they can
change the system of government including through civil unrest and armed struggle. And there is
more bad news - Sharia law is not just for Muslims but must be imposed on everyone throughout
the entire country as the world belongs to 'Allah' and his laws must prevail.

So the ultimate aim is domination through Sharia law. As Dr Mark Durie says, "domination is hard
wired into Islamic texts". We have the example in Iran in 1979 when the Shah was deposed with
violent uprisings. Today we already have no-go Sharia zones in Europe. In the southern provinces
of Buddhist Thailand and the Catholic Philippines rages a hardly reported brutal fight of Islamic
fundamentalists against the indigenous population. In 1,400 years Islam has spread from Arabia
halfway around the world and subdued many tolerant cultures. It is important for all Australians to
understand that history has shown the Islamisation process will lead to violence and civil disorder.
At this time, our democracy, our freedoms, our law and our way of life will have gone.

The frog has been boiled!

Islamists know that free and open western societies like Australia, which embrace multiculturalism
and political correctness, are ripe for exploitation. Through excessive tolerance, our own civilised
traditions, norms and values are being questioned, mocked and then eroded whilst being replaced
with backward cultures and foreign behavioural norms which are not critically examined or questioned, but by default feted, embraced and celebrated. As a consequence our society has now become almost defenceless against those who utilise the religious and cultural elements of their alien ideology as camouflage and carrier cells for their socio-political agenda. The philosopher and scientist Karl Popper foresaw this tendency in 1945: “…Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.”

The only way to prevent Islamisation is to prevent the introduction of Islamic Sharia law in any form. 

[dieter 3,325]

25 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I didn't write the following, but it also needs to be shared.  Don't bother sharing it with a leftist, as there's no hope for them, but for a normal centrist there's much to learn about Islam.

 

Q on: The Islamisation of Australia. Process, Methods & Tactics.

Islam is a totalitarian ideology veiled in religion. Under that veil is also a comprehensive system of
laws, politics and socio-cultural rules being promoted and applied under the guise and protection of
religious freedom. This religious front acts as a 'Trojan Horse', whose aim is to make Islam the
dominant cultural, legal, political and religious force in Australia.

The process outlined below can be likened to the “boiled frog syndrome”, wherein a frog is put into
cold water and as the temperature rises very slowly, the frog doesn't notice until it is too late and the frog is boiled. So how does the Islamisation process work?

Stage 1: The Religion of Islam spreads
As a missionary religion, Islam has a strong doctrinal mandate to spread worldwide and impose its
Sharia laws. And freedom of religion in free, democratic countries enables Islam to fulfil this
mission. It must be noted however that freedom of religion, exercised in free countries, is not
actually a feature of Islam itself, which has no separation of religion and state, and calls for the
execution of Muslims who choose to leave Islam. Changing ones religion is not just considered a
sin, but a crime against the state, which is why it is akin to treason and punishable by death. It is
this unity of religion and state in Islam that runs contrary to the spirit of the Australian Constitution
and why Islamic missionary activity threatens the foundations of Australia.

Not only is the religious veil cast over Islam's system of law and governance, it is also cast over
historical figures like Abraham, Moses and Jesus; who are presented as Muslims. Yet despite
serious core differences, the appropriation of such figures emboldens Islam to present itself in
Australia as an Abrahamic faith. A somewhat upgraded version in the same theological suite as
Judaism and Christianity; when actually it undermines and even ridicules both. As it gains
legitimacy by making such claims and the Muslim population rises quickly through unrelenting
migration and high birth rates, parts of Sharia law and Islamic courts are demanded by self-imposed
Islamic community leaders, so that Muslims can observe their religion. But this is where Islam
reveals that it is actually more than a religion and begins challenging Australian law and the core
value of 'one law for all'. Now the temperature starts to rise.

Stage 2: Sharia Law is established

At first, Islamic courts operate to handle seemingly innocuous matters such as family disputes
where Islamic doctrine applies to Muslims only. However, as Sharia law is discriminatory by nature
and upholds behaviour which secular Australian courts would criminalise, this clearly leaves some
Muslim Australians vulnerable to injustice. In Britain today, there are examples of non-Muslim men
taking a family dispute to a Sharia court because of the better deal they are likely to receive. In
Australia there are already calls to legalise the practises of polygamy and FGM, although already
practised, because Sharia allows this. Veiling the face is another issue always close to the surface,
as is segregation in prayer rooms, toilets, swimming pools and other public buildings.

There is a huge social cost to imposing Sharia standards quite apart from segregated communities.
Europe is experiencing a rape epidemic for starters due to the perception that under Sharia law a
Muslim man is immune from punishment for raping a non-Muslim woman. This is not unfair
speculation, the former Australian Mufti, Sheikh Hilaly, confirmed this when he called uncovered
women "cat's meat". And the calls for more and more aspects of Sharia law will continue, all under
the guise of “freedom of religion”.  The temperature is rising faster now.

Stage 3: Political Islam is established
Muslims will not submit to man-made laws such as those made in a democracy if they feel they can
change the system of government including through civil unrest and armed struggle. And there is
more bad news - Sharia law is not just for Muslims but must be imposed on everyone throughout
the entire country as the world belongs to 'Allah' and his laws must prevail.

So the ultimate aim is domination through Sharia law. As Dr Mark Durie says, "domination is hard
wired into Islamic texts". We have the example in Iran in 1979 when the Shah was deposed with
violent uprisings. Today we already have no-go Sharia zones in Europe. In the southern provinces
of Buddhist Thailand and the Catholic Philippines rages a hardly reported brutal fight of Islamic
fundamentalists against the indigenous population. In 1,400 years Islam has spread from Arabia
halfway around the world and subdued many tolerant cultures. It is important for all Australians to
understand that history has shown the Islamisation process will lead to violence and civil disorder.
At this time, our democracy, our freedoms, our law and our way of life will have gone.

The frog has been boiled!

Islamists know that free and open western societies like Australia, which embrace multiculturalism
and political correctness, are ripe for exploitation. Through excessive tolerance, our own civilised
traditions, norms and values are being questioned, mocked and then eroded whilst being replaced
with backward cultures and foreign behavioural norms which are not critically examined or questioned, but by default feted, embraced and celebrated. As a consequence our society has now become almost defenceless against those who utilise the religious and cultural elements of their alien ideology as camouflage and carrier cells for their socio-political agenda. The philosopher and scientist Karl Popper foresaw this tendency in 1945: “…Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.”

The only way to prevent Islamisation is to prevent the introduction of Islamic Sharia law in any form. 

Is this 'document' the 21st century version of The Protocols of Zion?

[daisycutter 28,507]

7 minutes ago, dieter said:

Is this 'document' the 21st century version of The Protocols of Zion?

It's the "Protocols of the (Learned) Elders of Zion", that i think you are referring to, Theudhar

If you think they are analogous why don't you give us a point by point comparison to prove your claim?

[dieter 3,325]

1 minute ago, daisycutter said:

It's the "Protocols of the (Learned) Elders of Zion", that i think you are referring to, Theudhar

If you think they are analogous why don't you give us a point by point comparison to prove your claim?

Correct, Mr Daisy, once again my trusty fact checker has corrected me.

You know the one I mean, however.

I have said it before, I'll say it again, the Anti Muslim hysteria we are facing, witnessing, tolerating comes from the same place that  Antisemitism comes from. It comes from ignorance, hatred, prejudice and a refusal to accept that we are all human beings made from the same flesh and blood, as it were. This ignorance attempts to blame all the ills of the world on people we generally know absolutely nothing about, people who been at the butt of our hatred, bombs, colonialism and calumny since long before WW1. 

What appalls me most is that this kind of low grade bigotry, racism and prejudice is common the to both the least intelligent members of white so-called christian societies and people who claim to have intelligence. 

In the meantime, stupidity and evil rule the world. The USA and its cohort of criminal nations are still in Afghanistan, ostensibly because Osama Bin Laden was hiding in a cave there in 2001, the USA and its cohort of criminals have destroyed Iraq based on lies, have decimated Libya, attempted to destroy Syria and the people with the intelligence of mental midgets then blame the refugees, who were made refugees by our criminal and wanton belligerence, for wanting to seek safety and shelter from the bombs we have dropped on them. 

 

 

[daisycutter 28,507]

2 hours ago, dieter said:

Correct, Mr Daisy, once again my trusty fact checker has corrected me.

You know the one I mean, however.

I have said it before, I'll say it again, the Anti Muslim hysteria we are facing, witnessing, tolerating comes from the same place that  Antisemitism comes from. It comes from ignorance, hatred, prejudice and a refusal to accept that we are all human beings made from the same flesh and blood, as it were. This ignorance attempts to blame all the ills of the world on people we generally know absolutely nothing about, people who been at the butt of our hatred, bombs, colonialism and calumny since long before WW1. 

What appalls me most is that this kind of low grade bigotry, racism and prejudice is common the to both the least intelligent members of white so-called christian societies and people who claim to have intelligence. 

In the meantime, stupidity and evil rule the world. The USA and its cohort of criminal nations are still in Afghanistan, ostensibly because Osama Bin Laden was hiding in a cave there in 2001, the USA and its cohort of criminals have destroyed Iraq based on lies, have decimated Libya, attempted to destroy Syria and the people with the intelligence of mental midgets then blame the refugees, who were made refugees by our criminal and wanton belligerence, for wanting to seek safety and shelter from the bombs we have dropped on them. 

 

 

but why should i believe you.......an evil western white colonial supremacist?

[Jara 1,149]

Ah Dieter, ya leftie snowflake. I'm with Pro on this one - he's converted me with his irrefutable logic. My only complaint is that he doesn't go far enough. Deport the lot of them, I say (ok, maybe we'll make an exception for Adam Yze, as long as he behaves himself) .

 

In fact, I'm beginning not to trust anybody. After Bourke Street, let's get rid of the Greeks. The Queen Street massacre - Vitkovic? He was Yugoslav or something, wasn't he? Out they go! And the Mafiosi - back to Sicily. And what about Stringybark Creek? Bloody Irish. And Myall Creek - those Aborigines - hang on - Myall Creek? the boot was on the other foot, wasn't it? Never mind - this is the Breitbart age - never let facts stand in the way of an opinion - back to where they came from!

[dieter 3,325]

2 hours ago, Jara said:

Ah Dieter, ya leftie snowflake. I'm with Pro on this one - he's converted me with his irrefutable logic. My only complaint is that he doesn't go far enough. Deport the lot of them, I say (ok, maybe we'll make an exception for Adam Yze, as long as he behaves himself) .

 

In fact, I'm beginning not to trust anybody. After Bourke Street, let's get rid of the Greeks. The Queen Street massacre - Vitkovic? He was Yugoslav or something, wasn't he? Out they go! And the Mafiosi - back to Sicily. And what about Stringybark Creek? Bloody Irish. And Myall Creek - those Aborigines - hang on - Myall Creek? the boot was on the other foot, wasn't it? Never mind - this is the Breitbart age - never let facts stand in the way of an opinion - back to where they came from!

You left out the Indians who we ought to deport in solidarity with out pioneering wagon training brethren and sisters in the Wild Wild West who always had big problemes with Indians attacking their wagons. The poor b..stards, I always felt so sorry for them, but, always, in the nick of time, along came John Wayne or General Custer to save civilization.