Manchester Bombing

[dieter 3,325]

2 hours ago, Biffen said:

I'm not surprised ,but quite glad that some people can see that Islam has huge problems in it.

Im glad some people who previously thought this was an irrational proposition can now agree.

Also .unthinkable a year or so ago- but some can now acknowledge that the white man is not infinitely responsible for all the worlds problems.

Furthermore,not all people who oppose Islam are racist-I'm hoping that is a given now- whereas last year it was not.

If some people are listening still I will tell you that Islam despises women and girls at a very primal level .This is yet another crack in the medieval doctrine.

Have you see this?

http://www.neonnettle.com/news/2211-amnesty-international-confirms-us-gave-isis-1-billion-of-weapons-in-2016

[dieter 3,325]

3 minutes ago, dieter said:

Have you see this?

http://www.neonnettle.com/news/2211-amnesty-international-confirms-us-gave-isis-1-billion-of-weapons-in-2016

And this?

Majority of fatal attacks on U.S. soil carried out by white supremacists, not terrorists.

By Maggie Ybarra - The Washington Times - Wednesday, June 24, 2015

In the 14 years since the Sept. 11 terror attacks, nearly twice as many people have been killed in the United States by white supremacists and anti-government radicals than by Muslim jihadis, according to a new study.

White supremacists and anti-government radicals have killed 48 Americans, including last week’s deadly attack in South Carolina, versus 26 killings by Muslim radicals, according to a count by New America, a Washington research center.

New America program associate David Sterman said the study shows that white supremacy and anti-government idealists are a major problem, that their growth rate needs to be addressed and that there is an “ignored threat” woven in the fabric of American society.

“Each time it [right-wing, radical violence] comes up, there’s a tendency to dismiss it as lone actor, mental health issues,” he said. “So it’s important to not ignore threats,”

[Wrecker45 3,378]

1 hour ago, dieter said:

As though the Catholics don't despise women and children. Ah yes, I hear you say, We are not medieval anymore, we had THE REFORMATION.

Big deal Reformation, Schmeformation, Christianity still lead inexorably to Hiroshima, places like Aushwitz, not to mention the carnage associated with Colonialism in South America, the Sub Continent, Africa, Australia, China and the Middle East.

Why just focus on Muslims? You sound as mad as Pauline Hanson, Biff. I thought you were smarter than her.

What has Christianity got to do with this thread about the Manchester bombing? About as much as Pauline Hanson I guess.

Destract from the problem as much as you can. That is all you have got.

[dieter 3,325]

36 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

What has Christianity got to do with this thread about the Manchester bombing? About as much as Pauline Hanson I guess.

Destract from the problem as much as you can. That is all you have got.

Dear Wrecker

The thread turned into another anti Islam rant. I get sick of anti-Islam rants. I get sick of them because most of the murders and killings in this world are and have been committed by so-called Christians. Anti Islam rants are usually run by idiots, bigots or people who know absolutely nothing about history. Being anti-Islam is the 21st century equivalent to Antisemitism.

So what am I 'destracting' (sic)  from? 

Edited June 1, 2017 by dieter

[Biffen 12,298]

Dieter- your stats are flawed.

the kill count on American soil is about 3000-5 in favour of terrorists.what white supremacism have to do with it?

Your lies are useless.

Remember 9/11 ,Orlando ?

Theres no point with you- you lie and obfuscate ,distort and mention Christians .

Its ok-Merkel has given your old country away now- that should appease your guilt for WW2,Catholicism and the brutal wars conducted by Westerners in the past.

Before America even had a Navy about 1500 yanks were killed off the Barbary coast.You conflate war with terrorist avtivity and think these things happen in a vacuum.

 

[dieter 3,325]

45 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Dieter- your stats are flawed.

the kill count on American soil is about 3000-5 in favour of terrorists.what white supremacism have to do with it?

Your lies are useless.

Remember 9/11 ,Orlando ?

Theres no point with you- you lie and obfuscate ,distort and mention Christians .

Its ok-Merkel has given your old country away now- that should appease your guilt for WW2,Catholicism and the brutal wars conducted by Westerners in the past.

Before America even had a Navy about 1500 yanks were killed off the Barbary coast.You conflate war with terrorist avtivity and think these things happen in a vacuum.

 

Between you and me, Mr Biff, just watch Building 7 being 'pulled' and then tell me, Orlandodo, that Islam did 9/11.

And dear me, ' things happen in a vacuum', so all the terrorism the Yanks have committed in the Middle East have happened in a vacuum where there are no consequences? Where do you start? Persia in the 50's, arming both Iran and Iraq during that ghastly war during the illustrious Reagan catastrophic years, using Uranium coated weapons during the so-called first Gulf war when, as you might or might not recall, the Iraqis bayoneted humidicribs, just like the Germans ate Belgium babies.....

As an ex USA Bomber wrote, 'You can't keep bombing the crap out of people and not expect that at some stage they're going to want revenge.'

It's kind of how the Israelis operate in Palestine. You treat people like they're vermin and don't expect any consequences...

And, pray tell, what were the Yankee boys up to off the Barbary Coast, dear Biffenheimer?

[Biffen 12,298]

51 minutes ago, dieter said:

Between you and me, Mr Biff, just watch Building 7 being 'pulled' and then tell me, Orlandodo, that Islam did 9/11.

And dear me, ' things happen in a vacuum', so all the terrorism the Yanks have committed in the Middle East have happened in a vacuum where there are no consequences? Where do you start? Persia in the 50's, arming both Iran and Iraq during that ghastly war during the illustrious Reagan catastrophic years, using Uranium coated weapons during the so-called first Gulf war when, as you might or might not recall, the Iraqis bayoneted humidicribs, just like the Germans ate Belgium babies.....

As an ex USA Bomber wrote, 'You can't keep bombing the crap out of people and not expect that at some stage they're going to want revenge.'

It's kind of how the Israelis operate in Palestine. You treat people like they're vermin and don't expect any consequences...

And, pray tell, what were the Yankee boys up to off the Barbary Coast, dear Biffenheimer?

They were sailing to and from America when they were taken as slaves or killed.This was before America had a big war to stop slavery.Some were pilgrims . Muslim pirates.

Islam is built on slavery- the United States bought their slaves from Arabs.The US also had white slaves and indentured children from England,Ireland,Scotland and even Germany.Australia had white slaves too.Lots of them.Most of us are related to these white slaves.

As you are a 9/11 "truther" - you clearly hate the states.I know you hate the Catholic Church  and think Europe is evil.

You should give up your house and use it as an education centre for nuffies and IS trainees.

You have a lot of lazy ,Marxist ,anti govt ideas,

Most normal people think blowing  people up in a public place is wrong but of course you sympathise with the bomber and his urgers.

Of course western forces hit civilians occasionally .State sponsored military action isn't perfect but we don't strap bombs to  teens and send them to kill kids ,or run over people.

We spend millions perfecting technology to pin point a gunman by drone or satellite  and blow him away from a room in Virginia or Guam.We don't all get a say in the how.We do have a say in the why.I understand why we kill in Pakistan and other such Theocracies.

Does radical Islam think it can win?Does Palestine think it can win?They will not.

Give up on your ludicrous , peacenik crap.We live on the doorstep of Islams largest nation.

Remember Bali?

That was where they killed Australians for real.They might not be your type of Aussie  but this is real.

Vietnam was real too- but you probably supported the North.

I'm not ready to go and live in the dark ages according to a text written by a goat herder from Mecca .Or from a 19th Centiury doctrine written by Marx and Engels.

You are a gullible dupe Dieter.

 Hundreds of millions killed in the name of Islam and Communism.

But you think the west is evil.

The west isn't perfect but we are mostly free of idiot religion and ideology dominating our day to day life. 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2017 by Biffen

[Wrecker45 3,378]

10 hours ago, dieter said:

Dear Wrecker

The thread turned into another anti Islam rant. I get sick of anti-Islam rants. I get sick of them because most of the murders and killings in this world are and have been committed by so-called Christians. Anti Islam rants are usually run by idiots, bigots or people who know absolutely nothing about history. Being anti-Islam is the 21st century equivalent to Antisemitism.

So what am I 'destracting' (sic)  from? 

Dieter

This thread is about the Manchester bombing. Like alot of recent terrorism the perpetrators did so in the name of Islam. 

You seem incapable of discussing Islam without bringing up Christianity.

If you want to discuss George Pell, Catholicism, Christianity or white supremacy start a thread on it or find one that already exists and contribute to it.

 

 

[dieter 3,325]

9 hours ago, Biffen said:

They were sailing to and from America when they were taken as slaves or killed.This was before America had a big war to stop slavery.Some were pilgrims . Muslim pirates.

Islam is built on slavery- the United States bought their slaves from Arabs.The US also had white slaves and indentured children from England,Ireland,Scotland and even Germany.Australia had white slaves too.Lots of them.Most of us are related to these white slaves.

As you are a 9/11 "truther" - you clearly hate the states.I know you hate the Catholic Church  and think Europe is evil.

You should give up your house and use it as an education centre for nuffies and IS trainees.

You have a lot of lazy ,Marxist ,anti govt ideas,

Most normal people think blowing  people up in a public place is wrong but of course you sympathise with the bomber and his urgers.

Of course western forces hit civilians occasionally .State sponsored military action isn't perfect but we don't strap bombs to  teens and send them to kill kids ,or run over people.

We spend millions perfecting technology to pin point a gunman by drone or satellite  and blow him away from a room in Virginia or Guam.We don't all get a say in the how.We do have a say in the why.I understand why we kill in Pakistan and other such Theocracies.

Does radical Islam think it can win?Does Palestine think it can win?They will not.

Give up on your ludicrous , peacenik crap.We live on the doorstep of Islams largest nation.

Remember Bali?

That was where they killed Australians for real.They might not be your type of Aussie  but this is real.

Vietnam was real too- but you probably supported the North.

I'm not ready to go and live in the dark ages according to a text written by a goat herder from Mecca .Or from a 19th Centiury doctrine written by Marx and Engels.

You are a gullible dupe Dieter.

 Hundreds of millions killed in the name of Islam and Communism.

But you think the west is evil.

The west isn't perfect but we are mostly free of idiot religion and ideology dominating our day to day life. 

 

 

 

You must get your history from the likes of Winston Churchill and Bernard Lewis. They re-write history as well, they have a similar bigoted and prejudiced and ridiculous sense of how to distort events to make them sound like we're ALWAYS the good guys.

Never mind.

And, just for the record, I don't 'support' terrorism. I simply point out that the so-called West uses the term very, very selectively. It also turns a blind eye to the Terror it inflicts and has inflicted on, well, usually Muslim Arabs and people of Muslim faith in Pakistan and Afghanistan. 

And, have you heard of the 'Tonkin Incident'?

And, rast but not reast, how did the Commies just jump the fence into this conversation? I didn't invite them.

I bet you haven't watched Building 7 sinking in about 5 seconds, have you? Because if you did you'd have to ask yourself How is it so that a 47 storey building can be set up for controlled demolition in an instant.

[Biffen 12,298]

15 minutes ago, dieter said:

You must get your history from the likes of Winston Churchill and Bernard Lewis. They re-write history as well, they have a similar bigoted and prejudiced and ridiculous sense of how to distort events to make them sound like we're ALWAYS the good guys.

Never mind.

And, just for the record, I don't 'support' terrorism. I simply point out that the so-called West uses the term very, very selectively. It also turns a blind eye to the Terror it inflicts and has inflicted on, well, usually Muslim Arabs and people of Muslim faith in Pakistan and Afghanistan. 

And, have you heard of the 'Tonkin Incident'?

And, rast but not reast, how did the Commies just jump the fence into this conversation? I didn't invite them.

I bet you haven't watched Building 7 sinking in about 5 seconds, have you? Because if you did you'd have to ask yourself How is it so that a 47 storey building can be set up for controlled demolition in an instant.

On the Barbary coast- white slavery is acknowledged by all sides of history.The marines hymn acknowledges this battle in the first line. 

Sweden had been in a constant war with Barbary pirates.Ironic.

There was a war in 1801- 1805 to sink Ottoman ships.Diplomacy was tried but didn't work.

On building 7 - I have no idea.CGI?

The west are not persecuting Islam- we are attempting to destroy Islamist militants.

You are lucky to be in a country that tolerates your cuckolded views.

The problems in Pakistan,Afghanistan and Iraq were not created by Western forces.

Try looking at the simple fact that all these failed state hell holes cannot be governed properly because groups of bearded scum take the law into their own hands on a daily basis.

The root of the issue is the rule of law versus the word of god.

Go put your tin foil hat on and watch your conspiracy movies.

 

[Jara 1,149]

Biff surely the current problems in Iraq were?

[Biffen 12,298]

2 minutes ago, Jara said:

Biff surely the current problems in Iraq were?

The other option was to let Saddam stay in power and paint himself as a desert Che Guevara .

The whole country collapsed into civil war but you will find that has been happening in that region for 3-4000 years.

So nothing to do with Western interference.

Such as pathetic criticism is "The west destroyed our culture".

If so ,give us back the steel,trains,hospitals,government systems,medicine,education and science we bought you .

Any country colonised by Britain should be eternally grateful.

[Jara 1,149]

I've got a few Aboriginal friends who wouldn't agree with your last remark.

 

As for the rest, would have been much better to let Saddam stay in power. American imperialism at its worst (with lapdog us).

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

1 hour ago, Biffen said:

The other option was to let Saddam stay in power and paint himself as a desert Che Guevara .

The whole country collapsed into civil war but you will find that has been happening in that region for 3-4000 years.

So nothing to do with Western interference.

Such as pathetic criticism is "The west destroyed our culture".

If so ,give us back the steel,trains,hospitals,government systems,medicine,education and science we bought you .

Any country colonised by Britain should be eternally grateful.

Agreed that the area has been a basket place for a long time, but I reckon discounting western interference is a stretch.

I'm not saying it's all the US's fault, or that things would be better or worse without their involvement. I'm just saying you can't invade a country, leave, then observe the subsequent power vacuum and civil war and shrug 'meh, they would have killed each other anyway'. It's irresponsible and frankly we have no idea what would have happened if Saddam had stayed in power. 

I remember Trump said that Hilary and Obama helped 'create' ISIS by their actions in the region. So I guess he'd disagree with your assessment that the issues there had nothing to do with Western interference.

 

Now, your claims on the West destroying culture - I both agree and disagree with.

Recently, I think you're right - the West hasn't gone and destroyed any cultures (ISIS does a good enough job of that on their own, looting and destroying artefacts and such).

But the height of colonialism was all about destroying the indigenous cultures the British (and Spanish I suppose) found. One people systematically eliminating another, forcing their religion on another, is nothing to be proud of. Yes, there are the benefits you described above, but it's not as simple as "we brought civilisation to the heathen, now he doesn't have TB". It's more like "we straight up murdered a bunch of people, now their descendants don't have TB".

 

I'm not sure anything is really served by trying to perpetuate the idea of Western superiority. We're all humans. We should all feel pride in our achievements and shame at our failures.

[Biffen 12,298]

38 minutes ago, Choke said:

Agreed that the area has been a basket place for a long time, but I reckon discounting western interference is a stretch.

I'm not saying it's all the US's fault, or that things would be better or worse without their involvement. I'm just saying you can't invade a country, leave, then observe the subsequent power vacuum and civil war and shrug 'meh, they would have killed each other anyway'. It's irresponsible and frankly we have no idea what would have happened if Saddam had stayed in power. 

I remember Trump said that Hilary and Obama helped 'create' ISIS by their actions in the region. So I guess he'd disagree with your assessment that the issues there had nothing to do with Western interference.

 

Now, your claims on the West destroying culture - I both agree and disagree with.

Recently, I think you're right - the West hasn't gone and destroyed any cultures (ISIS does a good enough job of that on their own, looting and destroying artefacts and such).

But the height of colonialism was all about destroying the indigenous cultures the British (and Spanish I suppose) found. One people systematically eliminating another, forcing their religion on another, is nothing to be proud of. Yes, there are the benefits you described above, but it's not as simple as "we brought civilisation to the heathen, now he doesn't have TB". It's more like "we straight up murdered a bunch of people, now their descendants don't have TB".

 

I'm not sure anything is really served by trying to perpetuate the idea of Western superiority. We're all humans. We should all feel pride in our achievements and shame at our failures.

"We" didn't murder anyone and neither did my ancestors.

If they did it would be recorded in Law archives- another British invention .

There is nothing to be ashamed of.

We don't take responsibility for US foreign policy either.

Last time I checked there was no public policy setting out to destroy native cultures.In fact there is truckloads of support and money to protect them.

Unless you  think repairations are a good idea.

I don't see any point in feeling guilty for being born white.By the same token I'm not a white pride nazi.

History happened and we look at the facts and move on.

Humanity has advanced by all measure due to Western civilisation.From life expectancy to agriculture to disease prevention to road building .

You name it.

The Chinese  think we are ridiculous for giving even the slightest flying f.ck about what others think of us.They only admire our successes and seek to copy them .

They think we are a conflicted,worrysome,guilt ridden,doubt filled ,empathy junkies.They must laugh their arses off at our luxurious ideals.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

1 hour ago, Biffen said:

"We" didn't murder anyone and neither did my ancestors.

If they did it would be recorded in Law archives- another British invention .

There is nothing to be ashamed of.

We don't take responsibility for US foreign policy either.

Last time I checked there was no public policy setting out to destroy native cultures.In fact there is truckloads of support and money to protect them.

Unless you  think repairations are a good idea.

I don't see any point in feeling guilty for being born white.By the same token I'm not a white pride nazi.

History happened and we look at the facts and move on.

Humanity has advanced by all measure due to Western civilisation.From life expectancy to agriculture to disease prevention to road building .

You name it.

The Chinese  think we are ridiculous for giving even the slightest flying f.ck about what others think of us.They only admire our successes and seek to copy them .

They think we are a conflicted,worrysome,guilt ridden,doubt filled ,empathy junkies.They must laugh their arses off at our luxurious ideals.

 

I'll see if I can attend to these one by one:

I don't know who you're descended from, but I'm pretty sure British and Spanish colonials murdered a bunch of people when they came to new countries.

And yeah, those murders are recorded - as invasions and wars.

I didn't do it either, but I live in a country that benefited from the wholesale murder and displacement of its indigenous population. So I'm happy for some of my tax dollars to go to the descendants of those who were displaced. I'm not accountable for the actions of colonials hundreds of years ago, but I benefit from their actions and that at least makes me partially responsible for giving back.

There is no public policy for destroying cultures - agreed. But there used to be, at least indirectly, when this country was declared "Terra Nullius".

Reparations are a good idea within reason. Welfare payments and such. Happy to pay my share.

I don't feel guilty either, I just acknowledge the benefit I've received (see above).

I think you are ignoring some facts here Biff, despite your claims. But it's easier for us to move on from the facts of history than the descendants of the conquered. I don't see why acknowledging that is an issue.

You talk about historical fact, and yes many advances in society and technology are euro-centric. It would be naive however to assume that they ALL were, and discount the impact of other cultures on our own societal and technological development. From memory (history class was a while back), but the first written words I think were found to have come from ancient Mesopotamia - which is now the middle east. The first codified laws (again, history class was a while back) were developed in Babylon under Hammurabi. Again, middle east. Codified laws were not a British invention as you claim.

I can't speak for the Chinese, although their growing middle class indicates to me that they are starting to share our ideals, not laugh at them. But who knows.

[Biffen 12,298]

26 minutes ago, Choke said:

 

I'll see if I can attend to these one by one:

I don't know who you're descended from, but I'm pretty sure British and Spanish colonials murdered a bunch of people when they came to new countries.

And yeah, those murders are recorded - as invasions and wars.

I didn't do it either, but I live in a country that benefited from the wholesale murder and displacement of its indigenous population. So I'm happy for some of my tax dollars to go to the descendants of those who were displaced. I'm not accountable for the actions of colonials hundreds of years ago, but I benefit from their actions and that at least makes me partially responsible for giving back.

There is no public policy for destroying cultures - agreed. But there used to be, at least indirectly, when this country was declared "Terra Nullius".

Reparations are a good idea within reason. Welfare payments and such. Happy to pay my share.

I don't feel guilty either, I just acknowledge the benefit I've received (see above).

I think you are ignoring some facts here Biff, despite your claims. But it's easier for us to move on from the facts of history than the descendants of the conquered. I don't see why acknowledging that is an issue.

You talk about historical fact, and yes many advances in society and technology are euro-centric. It would be naive however to assume that they ALL were, and discount the impact of other cultures on our own societal and technological development. From memory (history class was a while back), but the first written words I think were found to have come from ancient Mesopotamia - which is now the middle east. The first codified laws (again, history class was a while back) were developed in Babylon under Hammurabi. Again, middle east. Codified laws were not a British invention as you claim.

I can't speak for the Chinese, although their growing middle class indicates to me that they are starting to share our ideals, not laugh at them. But who knows.

At some point we have to acknowledge history and then move on ,not use it as an excuse or an ideological battering ram .

People are displaced and cultures die out.Its a sad fact of evolution.

Not something we can change back to a pristine state of utopia .

 

 

 

 

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Just now, Biffen said:

At some point we have to acknowledge history and then move on ,not use it as an excuse or an ideological battering ram .

People are displaced and cultures die out.Its a sad fact of evolution.

Not something we can change back to a pristine state of utopia .

 

 

All fair, but I don't think we're at the point where we can completely move on yet. Plus there's the issue of acknowledging actual vs false history. Your statement on the British inventing law for example was factually incorrect. That false assumption may have influenced further opinions, not just yours but those who read your words, which then become entrenched, but cannot be dislodged despite them being predicated on a falsehood.

 

Hopefully society can move on soon as you say, but its a lot easier for us to move on than the descendants of the wronged.

 

"It is a sad fact of evolution" - although I agree that it is, it doesn't mean that we have to continue with it, or that it is morally right. Evolution is a theory that explains how life develops, not how it should act ethically once sentience is attained.

[dieter 3,325]

3 hours ago, Choke said:

 

But the height of colonialism was all about destroying the indigenous cultures the British (and Spanish I suppose) found. One people systematically eliminating another, forcing their religion on another, is nothing to be proud of. Yes, there are the benefits you described above, but it's not as simple as "we brought civilisation to the heathen, now he doesn't have TB". It's more like "we straight up murdered a bunch of people, now their descendants don't have TB".

 

I'm not sure anything is really served by trying to perpetuate the idea of Western superiority. We're all humans. We should all feel pride in our achievements and shame at our failures.

Well put, Mr Choke.

I recall the Rector at Rupertswood telling us the great advantage of having Britain as its Colonial Master was the British left great infrastructure behind. I put my hand up and said, Yes, that was so because they could plunder more efficiently.

[Biffen 12,298]

51 minutes ago, Choke said:

 

All fair, but I don't think we're at the point where we can completely move on yet. Plus there's the issue of acknowledging actual vs false history. Your statement on the British inventing law for example was factually incorrect. That false assumption may have influenced further opinions, not just yours but those who read your words, which then become entrenched, but cannot be dislodged despite them being predicated on a falsehood.

 

Hopefully society can move on soon as you say, but its a lot easier for us to move on than the descendants of the wronged.

 

"It is a sad fact of evolution" - although I agree that it is, it doesn't mean that we have to continue with it, or that it is morally right. Evolution is a theory that explains how life develops, not how it should act ethically once sentience is attained.

I think we could say Britain took the rule of law with it and was far more humane than other conquerors.

The invention of Law itself is likely Greek or used by Greece internationally.

My point was on law archives,the keeping of records for administrative purposes.A vibrant and active written language is another way the Brits came to dominate  the globe.

Fastidious record keeping,administration,tax etc.

Not British inventions but used extensively by the Royal Navy .

Unless you have some remedy to aggrieved native populations worldwide then there is no point trying to find a culpability in oneself for the actions of other long dead men.

Its a pointless and fake emotion.

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Biffen

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

12 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I think we could say Britain took the rule of law with it and was far more humane than other conquerors.

The invention of Law itself is likely Greek or used by Greece internationally.

 

"Humane" is subjective, so I won't bother engaging on that. It's something we won't see eye to eye on.

Your factual statement regarding the origins of law on the other hand can be disputed.

Quick check on wikipedia renders your second statement false:

Ancient Egyptian law, dating as far back as 3000 BC, had a civil code that was probably broken into twelve books. It was based on the concept of Ma'at, characterised by tradition, rhetorical speech, social equality and impartiality.^[1] By the 22nd century BC, Ur-Nammu, an ancient Sumerian ruler, formulated the first extant law code, consisting of casuistic statements ("if... then..."). Around 1760 BC, King Hammurabi further developed Babylonian law, by codifying and inscribing it in stone. Hammurabi placed several copies of his law code throughout the kingdom of Babylon as stelae, for the entire public to see; this became known as the Codex Hammurabi. 

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_history

So Egypt, then Sumeria, then Babylon.

Further digging suggests the earliest codified Greek law is dated to 620 BC. 1000 yeas after the Babylonians, 1600 after the Sumerians and 2400 years after the Egyptians.

2 of those countries are now located in what we now call the middle east, and the other is in Africa.

edit - clarity

Edited June 2, 2017 by Choke

[Biffen 12,298]

1 minute ago, Choke said:

 

Humane is subjective, so I won't bother engaging on that. It's something we won't see eye to eye on.

Factual statements on the other hand can be disputed.

Quick check on wikipedia renders your second statement false:

Ancient Egyptian law, dating as far back as 3000 BC, had a civil code that was probably broken into twelve books. It was based on the concept of Ma'at, characterised by tradition, rhetorical speech, social equality and impartiality.^[1] By the 22nd century BC, Ur-Nammu, an ancient Sumerian ruler, formulated the first extant law code, consisting of casuistic statements ("if... then..."). Around 1760 BC, King Hammurabi further developed Babylonian law, by codifying and inscribing it in stone. Hammurabi placed several copies of his law code throughout the kingdom of Babylon as stelae, for the entire public to see; this became known as the Codex Hammurabi. 

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_history

So Egypt, then Sumeria, then Babylon.

Further digging suggests the earliest codified Greek law is dated to 620 BC. 1000 yeas after the Babylonians, 1600 after the Sumerians and 2400 years after the Egyptians.

2 of those countries are now located in what we now call the middle east, and the other is in Africa.

Yes Choke- Nearly everything came from that part of the globe- way before Islam ,Christians and Jews.

I acknowledge that .

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

4 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Yes Choke- Nearly everything came from that part of the globe- way before Islam ,Christians and Jews.

I acknowledge that .

 

So why assert something that you know is false?

 

 

20 minutes ago, Biffen said:

The invention of Law itself is likely Greek or used by Greece internationally.

 

3 hours ago, Biffen said:

If they did it would be recorded in Law archives- another British invention .

 

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

21 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I think we could say Britain took the rule of law with it and was far more humane than other conquerors.

The invention of Law itself is likely Greek or used by Greece internationally.

My point was on law archives,the keeping of records for administrative purposes.A vibrant and active written language is another way the Brits came to dominate  the globe.

Fastidious record keeping,administration,tax etc.

Not British inventions but used extensively by the Royal Navy .

Unless you have some remedy to aggrieved native populations worldwide then there is no point trying to find a culpability in oneself for the actions of other long dead men.

Its a pointless and fake emotion.

 

Looks like you've added more to this post.

Yeah - record keeping is good. Sure. Not sure why it's relevant, but ok.

 

There's no silver bullet, no. But I think it's worse to simply say that there is no solution and give up rather than at least make an attempt. Some welfare spending is justified IMO. I'm not advocating for giving back large swathes of land here. All I said was that I'm happy for some of my tax dollars to go towards these sorts of programs. It's not motivated out of guilt - I think it's a perfectly reasonable position to take. There are those in this country less fortunate and I, some of them as a result of historical wrongs. They can have my welfare dollar.

I doubt those who receive these payments see it as pointless. It is perhaps pointless for those who think as you do.

[Biffen 12,298]

2 minutes ago, Choke said:

 

So why assert something that you know is false?

 

 

 

 

I think I've acknowledged previously that the Middle East is the cradle of civilisation in regards to Sumeria,Persia,Babylon,Mesopotamia or however far back you go.

Gotta point?