Destination Club MFC

[xarronn 384]

On 21 May 2017 at 1:39 PM, ProDee said:

I'm not sure why any player would prefer the Saints or North if Melbourne were genuinely interested and in the ball park money wise.

Firstly, our list is better than both of theirs and secondly, we're an MCG club.  Why would you want to play with an inferior list and your homes games at Etihad if the coin is the same ?

That our list is superior to those two clubs is probably more One eyed optimism than objective reality. North delisted 4 veterans and lost another to Collingwood. They have a lot of young players like us and have performed about the same as us, with several narrow losses. The Saints have plenty of talented youth and two first round picks in the next draft. It does no harm to the club's performance for supporters to over rate our prospects, we are just kidding ourselves.

[Gator 17,479]

8 hours ago, xarronn said:

That our list is superior to those two clubs is probably more One eyed optimism than objective reality. North delisted 4 veterans and lost another to Collingwood. They have a lot of young players like us and have performed about the same as us, with several narrow losses. The Saints have plenty of talented youth and two first round picks in the next draft. It does no harm to the club's performance for supporters to over rate our prospects, we are just kidding ourselves.

No, no it's not.  This is far from rose-coloured glasses.  Making weekly progress reports isn't objective list analysis.  If our development is not compromised we will fly past those teams.  And while North jettisoned 4 veterans they're not as young as people seem to think.  They only had 6 players with less than 50 games on the weekend and averaged over 100 games with an average age of 26.

I get that drafting is still an inexact science, but there's enough evidence to prove top 10 draft picks give you a greater chance of drafting a quality player.

Only one other club (GWS) has as many top 10 draft pick in their best 22.

When I select a best 22 there's 10 or 11 top 10 draft picks (bids/selected) lining up.  That's half the side.  The Dogs only had 4 in their premiership team.

Some are still young and don't perform every week, but it's clear our raw talent exceeds that of North or the Saints.  

Our success will come from our 23 and unders.  If you think North or the Saints have a group equivalent to Viney, Hogan, Petracca, Oliver, Hunt, Salem, etc. by all means name them.

[Jara 1,153]

Wish I had as much faith in top draft picks as you do. God, we've had some duds. So many high draft picks, and we haven't had an A-Grader for as long as I can remember.

[MT64 1,144]

18 hours ago, Deestroy All said:

2 weeks.

Includes a bye weekend for them.

[xarronn 384]

11 hours ago, ProDee said:

No, no it's not.  This is far from rose-coloured glasses.  Making weekly progress reports isn't objective list analysis.  If our development is not compromised we will fly past those teams.  And while North jettisoned 4 veterans they're not as young as people seem to think.  They only had 6 players with less than 50 games on the weekend and averaged over 100 games with an average age of 26.

I get that drafting is still an inexact science, but there's enough evidence to prove top 10 draft picks give you a greater chance of drafting a quality player.

Only one other club (GWS) has as many top 10 draft pick in their best 22.

When I select a best 22 there's 10 or 11 top 10 draft picks (bids/selected) lining up.  That's half the side.  The Dogs only had 4 in their premiership team.

Some are still young and don't perform every week, but it's clear our raw talent exceeds that of North or the Saints.  

Our success will come from our 23 and unders.  If you think North or the Saints have a group equivalent to Viney, Hogan, Petracca, Oliver, Hunt, Salem, etc. by all means name them.

I can name some for St.Kilda, but only because I have a friend who barracks for the Saints and from what I hear commentators say. These are those players - Luke Dunstan, Jack Billings, Jack Newnes , Sebastian Ross, Acres, Gresham, Steele and they still have high hopes for McCartin and Goddard.  I don't watch those clubs enough to have formed opinions about many players but more about the team performances. Certainly on Sunday, I saw the young Kangaroos prove that they had enough talent.

There is a contradictory stat that you have brought up. That is that you think top 10 draft picks are vital, but then point out that the Bulldogs had only 4 in their Premiership team. At the same time, of the six Melbourne players you mentioned Viney was pick 26 and Hunt much further down. 

ProDee, I am of course, not insisting that you are wrong, only that it's easy for a supporter to see the best in our players and simply not know enough about players in other teams. I really hope you are right.

[Gator 17,479]

1 minute ago, xarronn said:

I can name some for St.Kilda, but only because I have a friend who barracks for the Saints and from what I hear commentators say. These are those players - Luke Dunstan, Jack Billings, Jack Newnes , Sebastian Ross, Acres, Gresham, Steele and they still have high hopes for McCartin and Goddard.  I don't watch those clubs enough to have formed opinions about many players but more about the team performances. Certainly on Sunday, I saw the young Kangaroos prove that they had enough talent.

There is a contradictory stat that you have brought up. That is that you think top 10 draft picks are vital, but then point out that the Bulldogs had only 4 in their Premiership team. At the same time, of the six Melbourne players you mentioned Viney was pick 26 and Hunt much further down. 

ProDee, I am of course, not insisting that you are wrong, only that it's easy for a supporter to see the best in our players and simply not know enough about players in other teams. I really hope you are right.

Port Adelaide bid pick 7 for Viney, which is why I said drafted or bid on.

Dunstan is rubbish (even according to Saints supporters), Newnes is 24, so not "23 and under", Ross is also 24, Acres, Gresham and Steele will be very good, and the jury is most certainly out on fatty McCartin and Goddard.

They have some good young players, but our top end young talent is far better.

As for my "contradiction" ?  I've never suggested you have to have a team full of top 10 picks to be successful, but if you're chock full of the right ones you're in superb shape. 

[dazzledavey36 55,361]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

Port Adelaide bid pick 7 for Viney, which is why I said drafted or bid on.

Dunstan is rubbish (even according to Saints supporters), Newnes is 24, so not "23 and under", Ross is also 24, Acres, Gresham and Steele will be very good, and the jury is most certainly out on fatty McCartin and Goddard.

They have some good young players, but our top end young talent is far better.

As for my "contradiction" ?  I've never suggested you have to have a team full of top 10 picks to be successful, but if you're chock full of the right ones you're in superb shape. 

Wasn't it Gold Coast that put in the bid for Viney?

Edited May 25, 2017 by dazzledavey36

[Adam The God 30,421]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

Port Adelaide bid pick 7 for Viney, which is why I said drafted or bid on.

Dunstan is rubbish (even according to Saints supporters), Newnes is 24, so not "23 and under", Ross is also 24, Acres, Gresham and Steele will be very good, and the jury is most certainly out on fatty McCartin and Goddard.

They have some good young players, but our top end young talent is far better.

As for my "contradiction" ?  I've never suggested you have to have a team full of top 10 picks to be successful, but if you're chock full of the right ones you're in superb shape. 

Dunstan could reach B grade, but his disposal really hurts him.

Steele is okay. Will be a B grader in time.

Acres is a very similar player to Harmes. Gets a lot of it, runs hard and can kick a goal, but butchers it by foot.

Newnes is a B grader at best.

Ross could reach A grade.

Roos said we would have bid on Gresham if it weren't for the Tyson/Salem deal. He is by far the most promising, naturally gifted, smart footballer under 23 St Kilda have. He's going to be an absolute gun.

McCartin will probably be a good player and maybe Goddard will come on as a KPD.

Their young talent base is nowhere near ours, agreed.

Edited May 25, 2017 by A F

[Deestroy All 14,266]

Dunstan is indeed rubbish. Slow, not as hard at it as his reputation would have it, has he ever had more than 20 touches? Not very good touches at that. 

Gresham is the pick of the bunch. 

I like what Acres does, but he drifts out of games for long periods of time. If he puts 4 quarters together he'll start racking up BOGs. 

Will be interesting to see how McCartin goes this week without Riewoldt. Time for that break out or more of the same. 

[rjay 25,093]

25 minutes ago, A F said:

Roos said we would have bid on Gresham if it weren't for the Tyson/Salem deal. He is by far the most promising, naturally gifted, smart footballer under 23 St Kilda have. He's going to be an absolute gun.

 

Gresham wasn't in the same draft 'AF' so maybe he was talking Billings...

[Thrice 216]

Billings and Gresham have genuine talent. Petracca has maybe 80% of Gresham's mercurial, but can genuinely go through the middle and has the power game than Gresham will never have. Oliver is way, way ahead of any mid they have coming through.

Dunstan will be de-listed by the end of next year.

No one has even bothered mentioning North, and for good reason. They have a pile of meat and potatoes types under 23: McDonald, Dumont, Turner. Probably the best couple were imports: Marley Williams and Hrovat. Mason Wood has a bit of x-factor, but hardly an A-grader in the making. 

[Thrice 216]

2 minutes ago, rjay said:

Gresham wasn't in the same draft 'AF' so maybe he was talking Billings...

Yes, we were looking at Billings over J Kelly. Lewis Taylor was the smoky if Salem was gone by pick 9.

[Thrice 216]

12	Tyson, Dom	79	23yr 11mth	8 Jun 1993	186cm	86kg	Oakleigh Chargers	Midfield
17	Frost, Sam	46	23yr 8mth	28 Aug 1993	194cm	94kg	Sandringham Dragons	Defender
16	Kent, Dean	56	23yr 3mth	24 Feb 1994	179cm	84kg	Perth	Forward
35	Kennedy, Ben	40	23yr 2mth	3 Mar 1994	175cm	78kg	Glenelg	Forward
19	Hannan, Mitchell	8	23yr 2mth	9 Mar 1994	189cm	81kg	Footscray	Forward
7	Viney, Jack	79	23yr 1mth	13 Apr 1994	178cm	86kg	Oakleigh Chargers	Midfield
42	Wagner, Joshua	17	22yr 11mth	24 Jun 1994	189cm	85kg	Aspley	Defender
1	Hogan, Jesse	45	22yr 3mth	12 Feb 1995	195cm	100kg	Claremont	Forward
24	Kennedy-Harris, Jay	25	22yr 2mth	21 Mar 1995	173cm	75kg	Oakleigh Chargers	Forward
29	Hunt, Jayden	28	22yr 1mth	3 Apr 1995	187cm	85kg	Brighton Grammar	Defender
45	Keilty, Declan (R)	0	22yr	8 May 1995	194cm	93kg	Casey Scorpions	Defender  Forward
3	Salem, Christian	39	21yr 10mth	15 Jul 1995	183cm	83kg	Sandringham Dragons	Defender
43	Harmes, James	31	21yr 7mth	5 Oct 1995	185cm	85kg	Dandenong Stingrays	Defender
5	Petracca, Christian	26	21yr 4mth	4 Jan 1996	186cm	94kg	Eastern Ranges	Forward
10	Brayshaw, Angus	33	21yr 4mth	9 Jan 1996	187cm	90kg	Sandringham Dragons	Midfield  Forward
30	Neal-Bullen, Alex	21	21yr 4mth	9 Jan 1996	182cm	82kg	Glenelg	Midfield  Forward
44	Smith, Joel (R)	1	21yr 3mth	25 Feb 1996	191cm	87kg	Geelong Supercats	Defender
28	McDonald, Oscar	24	21yr 2mth	18 Mar 1996	196cm	97kg	North Ballarat Rebels	Defender
41	White, Mitchell (R)	3	21yr 1mth	10 Apr 1996	188cm	88kg	Dandenong Stingrays	Defender
40	McKenna, Patrick	0	20yr 9mth	12 Aug 1996	186cm	85kg	Gisborne Football	Defender
15	Stretch, Billy	32	20yr 8mth	8 Sep 1996	180cm	80kg	Glenelg	Midfield
34	King, Mitch	0	20yr 4mth	1 Jan 1997	200cm	99kg	Murray Bushrangers	Forward  Ruck
27	Hulett, Liam	0	20yr 2mth	17 Mar 1997	193cm	91kg	Dandenong Stingrays	Forward
26	Weideman, Sam	9	19yr 10mth	26 Jun 1997	195cm	94kg	Eastern Ranges	Forward
13	Oliver, Clayton	22	19yr 10mth	22 Jul 1997	187cm	88kg	Murray Bushrangers	Midfield
37	Johnstone, Dion	0	18yr 11mth	1 Jun 1998	179cm	77kg	Oakleigh Chargers	Forward
47	Filipovic, Lachlan (R)	0	18yr 8mth	29 Aug 1998	200cm	92kg	Sandringham Dragons	Ruck

 

Saints

29	Webster, Jimmy	58	23yr 10mth	28 Jun 1993	188cm	83kg	Glenorchy	Defender
41	Minchington, Darren	27	23yr 5mth	9 Dec 1993	179cm	81kg	Dandenong Stingrays	Forward
34	Wright, Nathan	32	23yr 3mth	16 Feb 1994	185cm	82kg	Dandenong Stingrays	Forward
28	Membrey, Tim	39	22yr 11mth	26 May 1994	188cm	88kg	Gippsland Power	Forward
40	Connellan, Ray (R)	0	22yr 10mth	29 Jun 1994	187cm	85kg	Athlone	Defender
42	Pierce, Lewis	1	22yr 6mth	16 Nov 1994	202cm	101kg	Dandenong Stingrays	Forward  Ruck
7	Dunstan, Luke	60	22yr 3mth	29 Jan 1995	184cm	84kg	Woodville West Torrens	Midfield
35	Sinclair, Jack	31	22yr 3mth	12 Feb 1995	180cm	81kg	Oakleigh Chargers	Forward
10	Freeman, Nathan	0	21yr 11mth	16 Jun 1995	183cm	80kg	Sandringham Dragons	Midfield
15	Billings, Jack	51	21yr 9mth	18 Aug 1995	184cm	84kg	Oakleigh Chargers	Midfield  Forward
8	Acres, Blake	34	21yr 7mth	7 Oct 1995	190cm	90kg	West Perth	Midfield  Forward
43	Marshall, Rowan (R)	0	21yr 6mth	24 Nov 1995	201cm	98kg	North Ballarat	Ruck
9	Steele, Jack	26	21yr 5mth	13 Dec 1995	187cm	88kg	Belconnen	Midfield  Forward
32	McCartin, Patrick	20	21yr 1mth	19 Apr 1996	194cm	95kg	Geelong Falcons	Forward
36	McKenzie, Daniel	17	21yr	17 May 1996	184cm	77kg	Oakleigh Chargers	Defender
13	Lonie, Jack	31	20yr 9mth	13 Aug 1996	174cm	71kg	Dandenong Stingrays	Forward
23	Goddard, Hugh	9	20yr 9mth	24 Aug 1996	196cm	98kg	Geelong Falcons	Defender
38	Coughlan, Nicholas (R)	0	20yr 8mth	12 Sep 1996	193cm	84kg	Albury Football Club	Defender
31	White, Brandon	1	20yr 4mth	13 Jan 1997	188cm	80kg	Dandenong Stingrays	Defender
37	Rice, Bailey	0	20yr 3mth	10 Feb 1997	184cm	86kg	Dandenong Stingrays	Defender
33	O'Kearney, Nick (R)	0	20yr 3mth	13 Feb 1997	181cm	72kg	Calder Cannons	Midfield  Forward
39	Joyce, Darragh (R)	0	20yr 1mth	23 Apr 1997	194cm	93kg	Kilkenny	Defender
21	Long, Ben	2	19yr 9mth	21 Aug 1997	182cm	73kg	Nt Thunder	Defender  Forward
4	Gresham, Jade	27	19yr 9mth	24 Aug 1997	177cm	76kg	Northern Knights	Forward
30	Phillips, Edward	0	19yr 1mth	29 Mar 1998	186cm	78kg	Oakleigh Chargers	Forward
26	Battle, Josh	0	18yr 8mth	1 Sep 1998	193cm	89kg	Dandenong Stingrays	Forward

North

2 Williams, Marley 77 23yr 10mth 22 Jul 1993 181cm 83kg Claremont Defender 32 Wood, Mason 21 23yr 8mth 13 Sep 1993 192cm 87kg Geelong Falcons Forward 27 Garner, Taylor 22 23yr 4mth 8 Jan 1994 187cm 88kg Dandenong Stingrays Forward 3 Anderson, Jed 23 23yr 3mth 2 Feb 1994 179cm 81kg Territory Thunder Forward 8 Hrovat, Nathan 39 22yr 11mth 7 Jun 1994 175cm 78kg Northern Knights Midfield  Forward 11 McDonald, Luke 61 22yr 3mth 9 Feb 1995 189cm 88kg Werribee Defender 31 Preuss, Braydon 4 21yr 11mth 16 Jun 1995 206cm 107kg Surfers Paradise Ruck 14 Dumont, Trent 28 21yr 10mth 30 Jun 1995 186cm 86kg Norwood Midfield 28 Turner, Kayne 30 21yr 4mth 31 Dec 1995 180cm 75kg Wodonga Football Forward 37 Fordham, Will (R) 0 21yr 2mth 14 Mar 1996 188cm 84kg Sandringham Dragons Midfield 33 Vickers-Willis, Ed 5 21yr 1mth 28 Mar 1996 190cm 86kg Sandringham Dragons Defender 26 Nielson, Daniel 0 21yr 9 May 1996 194cm 96kg Eastern Ranges Defender 24 Durdin, Sam 2 20yr 11mth 6 Jun 1996 198cm 95kg West Adelaide Forward 15 Ahern, Paul 0 20yr 9mth 1 Aug 1996 182cm 83kg Calder Cannons Midfield  Forward 39 Hibberd, Mitchell 1 20yr 8mth 23 Sep 1996 190cm 87kg Clarence Defender  Midfield 42 Mountford, Declan 1 20yr 3mth 13 Feb 1997 181cm 75kg Claremont Midfield 41 Wagner, Corey 5 20yr 2mth 23 Mar 1997 180cm 75kg Aspley Forward 46 Taylor, Matthew (R) 0 20yr 1mth 27 Mar 1997 187cm 81kg Perth Defender 13 Clarke, Ryan 10 19yr 11mth 17 Jun 1997 184cm 87kg Eastern Ranges Midfield  Forward 23 McKay, Ben 0 19yr 5mth 24 Dec 1997 199cm 95kg Gippsland Power Forward 45 Junker, Oscar (R) 0 19yr 4mth 23 Jan 1998 193cm 84kg Western Jets Defender  Midfield 21 Simpkin, Jy 6 19yr 2mth 5 Mar 1998 182cm 75kg Murray Bushrangers Forward 44 Zurhaar, Cameron (R) 0 19yr 22 May 1998 188cm 81kg East Fremantle Forward 40 Larkey, Nick 0 18yr 11mth 6 Jun 1998 198cm 85kg Oakleigh Chargers Defender  Forward 36 Williams, Josh 0 18yr 11mth 12 Jun 1998 189cm 73kg Surfers Paradise Midfield  Forward 35 Watson, Declan 0 18yr 8mth 17 Sep 1998 191cm 83kg Aspley Defender

I would actually say Carlton have claims to genuniely challenging talent-wise under 23:

 

19	Sumner, Liam	28	23yr 9mth	16 Aug 1993	178cm	74kg	Sandringham Dragons	Forward
12	Boekhorst, Blaine	18	23yr 8mth	2 Sep 1993	187cm	78kg	Swan Districts	Midfield  Forward
15	Docherty, Sam	79	23yr 7mth	17 Oct 1993	187cm	87kg	Gippsland Power	Defender
45	Gallucci, Andrew (R)	0	23yr 3mth	28 Jan 1994	177cm	70kg	Williamstown	Forward
32	Graham, Nicholas	32	22yr 11mth	12 Jun 1994	182cm	83kg	Gippsland Power	Midfield  Forward
20	Plowman, Lachlan	48	22yr 8mth	11 Sep 1994	191cm	90kg	Calder Cannons	Defender
18	Jaksch, Kristian	14	22yr 7mth	7 Oct 1994	195cm	90kg	Oakleigh Chargers	Defender  Forward
38	Byrne, Ciaran	12	22yr 5mth	6 Dec 1994	187cm	88kg	County Louth Ireland	Defender
9	Cripps, Patrick	53	22yr 2mth	18 Mar 1995	195cm	93kg	East Fremantle	Midfield
33	Pickett, Jarrod	5	20yr 9mth	18 Aug 1996	178cm	77kg	South Fremantle	Midfield  Forward
22	Marchbank, Caleb	16	20yr 5mth	7 Dec 1996	193cm	90kg	Murray Bushrangers	Defender
40	Glass-McCasker, Jesse (R)	0	20yr 4mth	3 Jan 1997	195cm	96kg	Swan Districts	Defender
30	Curnow, Charlie	14	20yr 3mth	3 Feb 1997	194cm	91kg	Geelong Falcons	Forward
28	Cuningham, David	4	20yr 1mth	30 Mar 1997	183cm	83kg	Oakleigh Chargers	Midfield
23	Weitering, Jacob	29	19yr 6mth	23 Nov 1997	195cm	96kg	Mount Eliza Football Club	Defender
1	Silvagni, Jack	16	19yr 5mth	17 Dec 1997	191cm	89kg	Oakleigh Chargers	Forward
10	McKay, Harry	0	19yr 5mth	24 Dec 1997	200cm	95kg	Gippsland Power	Forward
5	Petrevski-Seton, Sam	9	19yr 3mth	19 Feb 1998	180cm	74kg	Claremont	Midfield
29	Polson, Cameron	1	19yr 2mth	11 Mar 1998	177cm	76kg	Sandringham Dragons	Forward
26	Macreadie, Harrison	5	19yr 1mth	11 Apr 1998	196cm	89kg	Henty	Defender
42	LeBois, Kym (R)	0	19yr	22 May 1998	175cm	67kg	North Adelaide	Forward
25	Fisher, Zac	5	18yr 11mth	15 Jun 1998	175cm	68kg	Perth	Midfield
36	Kerr, Pat	0	18yr 9mth	31 Jul 1998	194cm	93kg	Oakleigh Chargers	Forward
31	Williamson, Tom	7	18yr 5mth	12 Dec 1998	189cm	81kg	North Ballarat Rebels	Defender

 

Cripps, Doherty are genuine A-grade already.

 

Weitering, Petrevski-Seton are future A-grade.

 

Silvagni, McKay and Curnow look solid players. 

 

Plowman and Marchbank are both solid defenders picked up from the GWS reject pile. 
 

[Skuit 10,031]

50 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Wasn't it Gold Coast that put in the bid for Viney?

Port at pick 7. If GC had nominated Viney at 2, there was an unlikely but possible chance that we wouldn't have matched and Todd would have throttled Neeld on the spot. On top of everything that went on, could you imagine the first time Jack tore us up on the field? AAMI would have been torched.

[Adam The God 30,421]

22 minutes ago, rjay said:

Gresham wasn't in the same draft 'AF' so maybe he was talking Billings...

Good spot. I just check my sources there. Bad oversight on my part and maybe Roos'.

I think it's what happens when you listen to what your old man says.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

2 hours ago, xarronn said:

I can name some for St.Kilda, but only because I have a friend who barracks for the Saints and from what I hear commentators say. These are those players - Luke Dunstan, Jack Billings, Jack Newnes , Sebastian Ross, Acres, Gresham, Steele and they still have high hopes for McCartin and Goddard.  I don't watch those clubs enough to have formed opinions about many players but more about the team performances. Certainly on Sunday, I saw the young Kangaroos prove that they had enough talent.

There is a contradictory stat that you have brought up. That is that you think top 10 draft picks are vital, but then point out that the Bulldogs had only 4 in their Premiership team. At the same time, of the six Melbourne players you mentioned Viney was pick 26 and Hunt much further down. 

ProDee, I am of course, not insisting that you are wrong, only that it's easy for a supporter to see the best in our players and simply not know enough about players in other teams. I really hope you are right.

I think what St.Kilda has done well is their imports from other clubs. 

Membrey, Steele, Bruce and Roberton all in for not a whole lot. Weller would also be added if he could kick for goal. A few average ones but not Michie, Newton style.

While we get rid of Howe for Ben Kennedy, Dawes, Lumumba, Melksham and finally nail one with Hibberd. Actually, Garlett was a good pickup but questions remain on his intensity when the heat is on (has been fantastic this season excluding last week).

The main difference is St.Kilda got them in at a good age, only a couple of seasons into their AFL careers. We have failed picking these types.

The Tyson, Salem, Hunt deal can be seen as a shocker or break even depending on how you look at it (is Hunt a part of it).

Vince was a nice pickup and a necessity at the time but Adelaide would be more than happy with their return (M. Crouch).

[rjay 25,093]

23 minutes ago, Thrice said:

Silvagni, McKay and Curnow look solid players. 

McKay hasn't played an AFL game yet so he doesn't look anything...

Edited May 25, 2017 by rjay

[Adam The God 30,421]

39 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

I think what St.Kilda has done well is their imports from other clubs. 

Membrey, Steele, Bruce and Roberton all in for not a whole lot. Weller would also be added if he could kick for goal. A few average ones but not Michie, Newton style.

While we get rid of Howe for Ben Kennedy, Dawes, Lumumba, Melksham and finally nail one with Hibberd. Actually, Garlett was a good pickup but questions remain on his intensity when the heat is on (has been fantastic this season excluding last week).

The main difference is St.Kilda got them in at a good age, only a couple of seasons into their AFL careers. We have failed picking these types.

The Tyson, Salem, Hunt deal can be seen as a shocker or break even depending on how you look at it (is Hunt a part of it).

Vince was a nice pickup and a necessity at the time but Adelaide would be more than happy with their return (M. Crouch).

Urgh. MFCSS at its finest. How could the Tyson, Salem and Hunt deal possibly only be seen as a shocker or break even?

Tyson is a cusp A grader (certainly B+ at the moment), despite some of the crap I read on here; Salem will be A grade if his form and development continues; and Hunt could be absolutely anything. He's a B+ grader currently.

Versus Kelly. Who this year is playing A grade football. 

In fact, I'd argue that the deal will either be seen as break even or we're well, well, well ahead.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

5 minutes ago, A F said:

Urgh. MFCSS at its finest. How could the Tyson, Salem and Hunt deal possibly only be seen as a shocker or break even?

Tyson is a cusp A grader (certainly B+ at the moment), despite some of the crap I read on here; Salem will be A grade if his form and development continues; and Hunt could be absolutely anything. He's a B+ grader currently.

Versus Kelly. Who this year is playing A grade football. 

In fact, I'd argue that the deal will either be seen as break even or we're well, well, well ahead.

No, quite simply no.

I like Tyson, but he is what he is, and I don't see that changing. Good, solid player.

Salem would not be in the top 20 if the draft was redone now. Only Melbourne supporters would disagree with this. I don't see him being A grade, in what position do you see this? 

Hunt is the one the could go in many directions so makes it harder to judge.

I'm pretty sure I have seen you call Kelly an outside player, which shows you have not watched much of him this season. If Tyson and Salem are pushing A. Kelly is A+++

Pick 20 goes along with Kelly.

[Lucifers Hero 40,364]

6 hours ago, A F said:

Urgh. MFCSS at its finest. How could the Tyson, Salem and Hunt deal possibly only be seen as a shocker or break even?

Tyson is a cusp A grader (certainly B+ at the moment), despite some of the crap I read on here; Salem will be A grade if his form and development continues; and Hunt could be absolutely anything. He's a B+ grader currently.

Versus Kelly. Who this year is playing A grade football. 

In fact, I'd argue that the deal will either be seen as break even or we're well, well, well ahead.

Imagine if we had taken Kelly and now he is made a $1m a year offer to go to North!

This place would be in meltdown - $cully Mark 11

[Gator 17,479]

9 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

The Tyson, Salem, Hunt deal can be seen as a shocker or break even depending on how you look at it (is Hunt a part of it).

There's one major flaw in your logic.  Roos has confirmed that we would have drafted Billings and not Kelly.

That in itself would have been an error, but it makes this discussion point moot.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

9 hours ago, A F said:

Urgh. MFCSS at its finest. How could the Tyson, Salem and Hunt deal possibly only be seen as a shocker or break even?

Tyson is a cusp A grader (certainly B+ at the moment), despite some of the crap I read on here; Salem will be A grade if his form and development continues; and Hunt could be absolutely anything. He's a B+ grader currently.

Versus Kelly. Who this year is playing A grade football. 

In fact, I'd argue that the deal will either be seen as break even or we're well, well, well ahead.

Tyson on the cusp of A-grade lol..

Srsly.

Edited May 25, 2017 by stevethemanjordan

[Red and Blue realist 2,058]

52 minutes ago, ProDee said:

There's one major flaw in your logic.  Roos has confirmed that we would have drafted Billings and not Kelly.

That in itself would have been an error, but it makes this discussion point moot.

Exactly right, unless the recruiting managers come out and say we rated player xyz at position 1,2,3....right through to the end of the draft - You can never really compare how well trades have done. In this deal we gave up 2, 20 and 72, which (including the draft movements due to free agency etc.) became Kelly, Impey and was passed. We don't know if we would have taken Kelly, Billings, Bont, Aish, Scharenberg etc at 2 and Impey, Gardener, Crouch, Lobb etc at 21. We also might have kept and used 72 which I acknowledge would have been for a rookie upgrade, but then might have afforded us an additional rookie pick.

Comparing who won/lost a trade deal is no where near as black and white as some make it out to be. For mine, I'm happy with Tyson, Salem and Hunt and see them as best 22 for us for years to come, so I take that as a bit of a win.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

12 hours ago, A F said:

Urgh. MFCSS at its finest. How could the Tyson, Salem and Hunt deal possibly only be seen as a shocker or break even?

Tyson is a cusp A grader (certainly B+ at the moment), despite some of the crap I read on here; Salem will be A grade if his form and development continues; and Hunt could be absolutely anything. He's a B+ grader currently.

Versus Kelly. Who this year is playing A grade football. 

In fact, I'd argue that the deal will either be seen as break even or we're well, well, well ahead.

Kelly has been sensational this year.  He is quickly becoming one of the better midfielders in the comp.  Tyson is up and down, as is Salem, while Hunt is backing up last year with another good year.  To suggest we're well ahead is way off the mark.  There is still plenty of water to go under the bridge but you could argue the Giants are in front at the minute.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

3 hours ago, ProDee said:

There's one major flaw in your logic.  Roos has confirmed that we would have drafted Billings and not Kelly.

That in itself would have been an error, but it makes this discussion point moot.

Good point and one that I have used in the discussion of this trade many times before. 

Out of interest has Roos actually confirmed that? I knew it wasn't Bont or Kelly from previous media comments and have always suspected it was Billings or Kolodjashnij.