If Pedersen is so great and ready to go, then why have the FD not picked him?

No doubt that Weideman is struggling for form, but if Goodwin and co. thought Pedersen would offer us more then he would have been picked, yes?  Either they don't think he offers us more at the minute or he is still struggling a little for fitness.

20 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

If Pedersen is so great and ready to go, then why have the FD not picked him?

No doubt that Weideman is struggling for form, but if Goodwin and co. thought Pedersen would offer us more then he would have been picked, yes?  Either they don't think he offers us more at the minute or he is still struggling a little for fitness.

You really don't think that the best player gets picked every week do you? Last year there were 3 players better than OM in defencebut he got picked week after week. 

9 hours ago, Jimcor2 said:

I'm not sure what the appeal of Bugg over Trengove is.  I think that Bugg is no faster or harder than Trengove and, in my opinion, Jack is far more reliable kick than Bugg.  What am I missing?  Also, I would hope that if Pedo puts in a good performance at Casey, Weid will get a rest next week.  I am sure both of them are happy to put in at Casey but I'd prefer to see them both given a chance at the highest level.

 

Is quicker than you think. Harder on the spread. Plays on the edge. 

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

Structure

Yes I can see that every structure needs 1 kick a week. 

Just now, old dee said:

You really don't think that the best player gets picked every week do you? Last year there were 3 players better than OM in defencebut he got picked week after week. 

And he did a pretty good job, too.  

If they thought Pedersen would give us something that Weideman doesn't, and help us win games, then he would be in the side.  My guess is that his fitness levels aren't totally up to scratch yet.

1 minute ago, old dee said:

Yes I can see that every structure needs 1 kick a week. 

Football is too nuanced for you. 

3 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Darcy Moore must be close

2017... 3 games ....20 kicks ... 8 handballs and 1 goal 2 behinds

Eric Hipwood, had 2 disposals, 1 mark, 0 goals last week, for Brisbane. Yet is being persevered with.

Weids mainly get to the right spots and leaps at the ball. You don't see him outmarked often even though he is not catching them.  I think he is also much better suited to the bigger MCG. Unless someone is banging the door down then he will be persevered with most of the year.

I think OMac's demotion says more about the want to get Frost in and match ups with Freo's side. 

Edited April 14, 20178 yr by big_red_fire_engine

I wonder if this season we will see much more rotation of the the younger players than ever.I think this would be a main strategy of Goody's, one which i would favour strongly.

This is something that could be put to plan much more easily when it is complimented by the early wins, which in turn builds the team's momentum and confidence. So, even if we win this week, which i hope we do,we could possibly see Weidemann going back. Could be wrong , but we will see.

Whether its Tim Smith or the Weid is really not a big issue on reflection. Same to a point with Frost and Oscar.

Spencer getting through the game uninjured, unreported and holding his end up is this weeks big deal. Next week we will start getting players back. I fear Hogan may possibly need to stay out west or may not be in a good frame of mind. thats got to play out.

Spencer is the big show, then the form of Viney, Salem, ANB and Bugg will capture my interest.

Next comes Clarry being able to deal with a lot of attention, and then the whole team not retaliating - either 1st or 2nd.

Then I can just watch the Jayden show.

BTW I didnt see it mentioned how our tackling has not had many free kicks paid for too high, but noticed it on the replay.

Goodys got them sucking it up and playing hard fair football. Even my dogs arent scared of me watching footy - another win.

 

2 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I would have thought that the much stronger and more experienced Pedo would have complemented that structure more effectively than the Weid.

I can only assume he's still underdone.

He was the emergency held out last week so assume he was good to go.

3 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I would have thought that the much stronger and more experienced Pedo would have complemented that structure more effectively than the Weid.

I can only assume he's still underdone.

BBO, I've been baffled by Pedder's omission from teams since  2015. This year apart from injury,  I can only guess it's also because Goody is aiming to challenge for a premiership in 2019 / 20/ 21 and he is focusing on the players who he hopes will be a part of that push. 

I always had a higher opinion of him in games than clearly the selectors have had.

3 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Darcy Moore must be close

2017... 3 games ....20 kicks ... 8 handballs and 1 goal 2 behinds

Apart from Jeffy in Rnd 11 vs the Hawks last year, last week's game by Weids was the lowest 'weighted' statistical score of any MFC player in any match this year and last. And Jeffy was dropped following that match. Even Hannan has a greater average weighted statisitical output (impact?) at this early stage averaging 1.68 vs 1.38 for Weid. Jeffy scored 0.25 last year in that Rnd 11 match vs Weids 0.38 vs the Cats.  Even Big M playing about half a match scored 0.35 around the ground and that doesn't include any hit out stats. The bull's weighted score was 0.78. Unacceptable also but still double the weighted output (statistically) of Weids.

Darcy performing at that level must have contributed towards securing some of the Pies many losses in 2016. Surely we don't want to be going backwards by accepting performances at that level (or worse) In an ongoing sense by any player? Sends a poor message to others also I would have thought.

Edited April 14, 20178 yr by Rusty Nails

2 hours ago, old dee said:

You really don't think that the best player gets picked every week do you? Last year there were 3 players better than OM in defencebut he got picked week after week. 

The Fd is infallible.

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

If Pedersen is so great and ready to go, then why have the FD not picked him?

No doubt that Weideman is struggling for form, but if Goodwin and co. thought Pedersen would offer us more then he would have been picked, yes?  Either they don't think he offers us more at the minute or he is still struggling a little for fitness.

Wise even an 75% - 80% Pedders would offer at least a 50% (or more) impact and effect than Weids is having at the moment I would think. And he can also pinch hit in the ruck to relieve Watts a little more and allow him to impact up forward more often (hopefully). Also a potential defensive option if we got desperate. Weids can only play a single role at the moment. Not only is he way off AFL level he is also unable to help out/impact anywhere else.

Our best chance for finals in over a decade. I hope we don't blow it at the selection table by being stubborn/having too much faith in any one player.

Whether it's Weids or Specky Magee! just play whoever is having the most impact/results/form and who is most versatile as long as they're given a run of at least 3 weeks or so to get AFL match fit etc and a fair crack at it. If Weids goes back and shows some stand out form with Casey and Pedders has had a good run at it and fails....then he gets another crack etc etc. Apply the same principles to every position on the field and we play finals (subject to no further injury woes).

3 hours ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Is quicker than you think. Harder on the spread. Plays on the edge. 

Bugg came first in our 3km time trial. Fittest guy in the team

13 hours ago, Jimcor2 said:

I'm not sure what the appeal of Bugg over Trengove is.  I think that Bugg is no faster or harder than Trengove and, in my opinion, Jack is far more reliable kick than Bugg.  What am I missing?  

 

Bugg can play a role, hes  a very good run with and lock down player and tackles hard, gets in his opponents head.

Trengove is unfortunately cooked and so slow that he is a liability.

Obviously a lot of seasoned CHF's on this subject

I'm surprised that OMac and Smith were both dropped but not because it doesn't make sense, only because I had braced myself for OMac to get an extended period and for Smith to play until Hogan returns.

OMac's form doesn't warrant retaining his spot and with Frost now fit enough to come in, that's an upgrade. 

Bugg for Smith is more interesting and speaks to how the FD want to play the game structurally. At the times when Spencer is off and Watts is rucking we're going to have just Weideman as a target up forward so it will be interesting to see how we attack in those periods.

Spencer should, surely, be fit enough to ruck the same proportion of the game as Sandilands which will mean Watts only has to ruck against McCarthy or whoever it is at Fremantle who gives Sandilands a break. I'm not that fussed.

If Fremantle approach the game like they did last week, I'll be pretty confident. Both St Kilda and Geelong played attacking football and we did better than St Kilda and well enough against Geelong. If they play like Carlton, though, I'll be a lot more nervous. But I think Lyon's long-term future relies on him playing kids and being more aggressive so I don't see him moving into lockdown mode.

Goodwin seems to like tall forwards contesting the incoming ball without necessarily marking it in order to give players like Garlett the opportunity to impact the scoreline.

Weids does this. He's tall and goes hard at the contest. I expect that's why he's on the team sheet this week.

 

17 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Goodwin seems to like tall forwards contesting the incoming ball without necessarily marking it in order to give players like Garlett the opportunity to impact the scoreline.

Weids does this. He's tall and goes hard at the contest. I expect that's why he's on the team sheet this week.

It's quite refreshing to have this aerobic type of player in a team to learn and grow, if it results in a healthier forward line  when the ball hits the ground or defensively being able to spread a forward zone and have the fitness to be able to run back toward goal. Rather than heaping unrealistic expectations on players like Pederson or Dawes in the past who may clunk a few contested marks, but won't necessarily be the kind of player that has the tank to fit into our future plans of an ideal forward line week by week.

Edited April 14, 20178 yr by DominatrixTyson

35 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Goodwin seems to like tall forwards contesting the incoming ball without necessarily marking it in order to give players like Garlett the opportunity to impact the scoreline.

Weids does this. He's tall and goes hard at the contest. I expect that's why he's on the team sheet this week.

 

It is certainly not for the number of times he gets the ball RB. Not quiet sure how 1 kick and three handball helps anyone. 

22 minutes ago, DominatrixTyson said:

It's quite refreshing to have this aerobic type of player in a team to learn and grow, if it results in a healthier forward line  when the ball hits the ground or defensively being able to spread a forward zone and have the fitness to be able to run back toward goal. Rather than heaping unrealistic expectations on players like Pederson or Dawes in the past who may clunk a few contested marks, but won't necessarily be the kind of player that has the tank to fit into our future plans of an ideal forward line week by week.

There was nothing wrong Dawes tank. It was his inability to mark anywhere.

he got to a lot contests was good on the ground.

I have no doubt his stats were way better than the Weid. I gues it is not hard to have more than 4

6 minutes ago, old dee said:

It is certainly not for the number of times he gets the ball RB. Not quiet sure how 1 kick and three handball helps anyone. 

Old, Weid had a bad day last week and that's beyond dispute, but his two previous games were, IMO, acceptable.

In his two previous games he has 22 possessions at an average of 11 per game and I believe that's acceptable for an up and coming forward, he had a stinker last week but do you drop him on one bad performance or do you take in to account there were circumstances that led to it?

If he has a bad day tomorrow, then maybe he goes, but in the meantime let's get behind him and hope he puts in a top shelf performance, I think he will be a great player for us, given time.

 

27 minutes ago, old dee said:

There was nothing wrong Dawes tank. It was his inability to mark anywhere.

he got to a lot contests was good on the ground.

I have no doubt his stats were way better than the Weid. I gues it is not hard to have more than 4

Dawes tank was fine, Pedersons tank is fine. But i'm saying "the tank that fits into our future plans" - Both don't. So Wiedemann gets more on the job experience to learn and grow. If we're thinking "We can't afford to drop this game, better bring in Pederson" then i don't think that's having much foresight. Pederson isn't going to be the make or break reason for us going one step further this year and winning a premiership, so why would we need him to get us over the line in one game against Fremantle? What is so important about trying to salvage 4 points early in the year by not playing an inexperienced forward, when the Pederson isn't even in the future plans. If Weidemann doesn't develop against the best backmen now, then you'll have an inexperienced forward next year and a year older Pederson (31) , which is a bad situation.

Edited April 14, 20178 yr by DominatrixTyson

17 minutes ago, old dee said:

There was nothing wrong Dawes tank. It was his inability to mark anywhere.

he got to a lot contests was good on the ground.

I have no doubt his stats were way better than the Weid. I gues it is not hard to have more than 4

We get it, OD.  He had 4 touches last week and you aren't happy about it.  No need to go on and on and on about it.  I think every Melbourne supporter is aware and I don't think anybody is happy with his output last week.  I certainly wasn't.

But if Pedo is being overlooked then it must be down to something.  We aren't playing the kids for the sake of it as we are pushing for a finals spot - wins would take precedence over development most of the time at this stage.  It could well be a combination of no Hogan and the fact that they believe Pedersen needs another week or two at Casey to build his fitness levels.  Either way, they've gone with Sam for a reason.

I highly doubt the club would have been happy with his efforts and would have been told that.  He needs to lift and the FD is obviously backing him in to do so this week.