57 minutes ago, mo64 said:

These days, players are rarely beaten through body on body contact. If a defender is smart enough and mobile enough, he can work the angles to make a spoil. And there are generally teammates within the defensive zone to assist. O Mac still needs to learn the game, and that's best done at VFL level. 

Jeff Garlett would find that very amusing, one of the best in the team at utilising his smaller frame on bigger bodies

 

There will be quite a few applauding the exclusion of Oscar, and decrying the retention of Weed.  

I trust the selectors and match committee most of the time, far more than in previous years, so let's just give all those selected our full support. 

In particular let us look at the good things that Jake Spencer may do without endless dissection of any errors he may make.  He will by necessity be around for a while.  Think positive. 

I'm not sure what the appeal of Bugg over Trengove is.  I think that Bugg is no faster or harder than Trengove and, in my opinion, Jack is far more reliable kick than Bugg.  What am I missing?  Also, I would hope that if Pedo puts in a good performance at Casey, Weid will get a rest next week.  I am sure both of them are happy to put in at Casey but I'd prefer to see them both given a chance at the highest level.

 

7 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I don't like it

Spencer in - a no brainer

Frost for Oscar - I get that

Now I like The Bug but it leaves us lacking grunt and marking power up forward. Watts will be sharing ruck duties and unless Weid plays a blinder we will struggle.

Marking power? Tracca (185cm) and hannan (189cm) play tall. Watts will play 90% up forward and weid is close to 195cm. Not sure if we lack marking targets . 

Good changes, but also Pedersen could have been in for Weed (since last week). 

I'm happy it shows that Oscar is not considered a protected species like Dawes was forever and Weed seems to be lately.

3 hours ago, Rob Mac...... said:

Good changes, but also Pedersen could have been in for Weed (since last week). 

I'm happy it shows that Oscar is not considered a protected species like Dawes was forever and Weed seems to be lately.

How many times has a forward with the stats of 1 kick and 3 hand passes survived?

It's always a bit hard on a first gamer who's subsequently dropped.

But I'm more interested in picking a team the coach/MC believes is more likely to win the game.

Yep, I'm far more interested in that.

really we should spank this lot at the  G

I don't like the changes, I think we're too short at both ends.  I'd be happy to have Frost, Oscar and Smith all in, Frost and Smith provide a lot of pressure and aren't liabilities in this area.  Jake will play less minutes than Max normally does, particularly at the MCG and that will mean we're even shorter when Watts is rucking for longer periods.  I'd have Spencer and Frost for Gawn and Harmes.

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

It's always a bit hard on a first gamer who's subsequently dropped.

But I'm more interested in picking a team the coach/MC believes is more likely to win the game.

Yep, I'm far more interested in that.

Then why is Weideman playing?

14 hours ago, chook fowler said:

I think the Weed is playing like he has been sprayed with Round Up.

He is effectively "the man" this week chook. You can argue Watts should be but he doesn't have the height or spring to ever be considered a key forward.

Weids has to be the most luckiest forward after last week's 'worst on ground performance' and pretty horrible the week before also. Tim Smith wasn't great either but at least did what a forward is supposed to do and kicked a lousy goal which was better than most on the day.

We effectively have no genuinely dangerous options in the forward line outside of Watts and an odd cameo (maybe) from a very young and inexperienced Trac. So we 'out' our only genuine (potentially) dangerous key forward in Smith and who do we bring in to replace him? No one.

We bring in a potentially under done Frost and kick out OMac who was exposed last week on occasions but only because we allowed Hawkins to match up on him for longer than 30 seconds (which should never have been allowed to happen)!! Otherwise I though he held his own when not on Hawkins.

IF we win this one, we do so only from extreme mid field effort/Max output and shut down roles from Bugg and the like. Tyson would want to have a blinder after last week.

This is a must win if we are to have any chance of finals. Good luck boys. Let's hope we can steal a win as I personally can't see where enough goals are going to come from in that line up.

16 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

He is effectively "the man" this week chook. You can argue Watts should be but he doesn't have the height or spring to ever be considered a key forward.

Weids has to be the most luckiest forward after last week's 'worst on ground performance' and pretty horrible the week before also. Tim Smith wasn't great either but at least did what a forward is supposed to do and kicked a lousy goal which was better than most on the day.

We effectively have no genuinely dangerous options in the forward line outside of Watts and an odd cameo (maybe) from a very young and inexperienced Trac. So we 'out' our only genuine (potentially) dangerous key forward in Smith and who do we bring in to replace him? No one.

We bring in a potentially under done Frost and kick out OMac who was exposed last week on occasions but only because we allowed Hawkins to match up on him for longer than 30 seconds (which should never have been allowed to happen)!! Otherwise I though he held his own when not on Hawkins.

IF we win this one, we do so only from extreme mid field effort/Max output and shut down roles from Bugg and the like. Tyson would want to have a blinder after his first two weeks. He's been horrid so far. 

This is a must win if we are to have any chance of finals. Good luck boys. Let's hope we can steal a win as I personally can't see where enough goals are going to come from in that line up.

Agree with most of that RN.

Pedersen is a way better option than the Weid tomorrow if we really want to win.

Weideman tomorrow is a Hail Mary.

14 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

He is effectively "the man" this week chook. You can argue Watts should be but he doesn't have the height or spring to ever be considered a key forward.

Weids has to be the most luckiest forward after last week's 'worst on ground performance' and pretty horrible the week before also. Tim Smith wasn't great either but at least did what a forward is supposed to do and kicked a lousy goal which was better than most on the day.

We effectively have no genuinely dangerous options in the forward line outside of Watts and an odd cameo (maybe) from a very young and inexperienced Trac. So we 'out' our only genuine (potentially) dangerous key forward in Smith and who do we bring in to replace him? No one.

 

Don't disagree that the way Watts plays he is probably not suited to being a key forward, but completely disagree it is because of lack of height and spring. 

He is 196 cms, - taller than both Weideman and Hogan. In fact he is the second tallest player in the team this week and equal second tallest last week. He has shown on a number of occasions his high marking abilities, and he certainly displayed a pretty good spring when rucking at the centre bounces last week.

 

31 minutes ago, old dee said:

Then why is Weideman playing?

Structure

7 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Structure

I would have thought that the much stronger and more experienced Pedo would have complemented that structure more effectively than the Weid.

I can only assume he's still underdone.

19 minutes ago, xarronn said:

Don't disagree that the way Watts plays he is probably not suited to being a key forward, but completely disagree it is because of lack of height and spring. 

He is 196 cms, - taller than both Weideman and Hogan. In fact he is the second tallest player in the team this week and equal second tallest last week. He has shown on a number of occasions his high marking abilities, and he certainly displayed a pretty good spring when rucking at the centre bounces last week.

 

I stand corrected Xar. On that assessment then he IS the key forward this week. If that is the case are we asking too much of JW? Resting ruck duties also for at least 15% - 20% of the time plus a key forward role and also possibly playing a +1 role across half back or through the middle (pushing high) at times. Watts is good but pretty sure the last time i looked he didn't have a giant S plastered across his chest.

Agree with OD, Pedders should have been the In for Weids (or in this case Smith) or just let Smith settle for his 2nd shot at it on a wider and more expansive G against lessor rated opposition. Confidence is a funny thing in football but you can't get it if you aren't on the park. As a match committee if you "back" a rookie to come in at least 'back" your own initial decision and give him 2 to 3 weeks to settle, find the pace of the game, and show something. Just as they've done with Weids who has shown marginal to no impact after 6 trials. Otherwise why bring him in in the first place knowing it will probably take at least that many matches to see a return?

7 hours ago, bandicoot said:

Marking power? Tracca (185cm) and hannan (189cm) play tall. Watts will play 90% up forward and weid is close to 195cm. Not sure if we lack marking targets . 

We seem to have gone into this game with a similar sized side to Freo. 

Leaving aside Sandi and the obvious jokes, the teams seem to mirror each other.

 

Great structural changes. Trying to nullify Freo's outside run by dropping a tall for a defensive midfielder. Look at Freo's KP players and tell me we should've gone taller

24 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Structure

Structure assumes the player can impact the match, take a few pack marks i50, bust packs for smalls/others to feed off front and square or take a few pack/contested marks/on the lead etc and kick 2 to 3 goals most weeks Pro. Weids does very little of these things right now. He may do in future given enough time but he just isn't ready and hasn't been no matter how much the match comittee FD (others on here etc) might "wish" and hope that he will immediately be. He is at least another pre season away from impacting to a level that sees him as a regular "impact player" up the spine and key to our overall structure.

6 minutes ago, Redleg said:

We seem to have gone into this game with a similar sized side to Freo. 

Leaving aside Sandi and the obvious jokes, the teams seem to mirror each other.

 

I think we would be backing our guys to be better one on one all over the ground. 

Id love to let Oliver and Fyfe go head to head 

I'm very interested to see watts' tactics when covering for spencer. Sandilands should ruck about the same (maybe less) time as spencer but it's a tough proposition for watts when they crisis over.

I really hope watts tries to ruck it properly, rather than crafting some inferior tactic. Once the ruck duel ends, I hope he really exposes sandi at ground level. Going to be a bruising day for jack. 

Further to that point, I would love to see us win, and Pederson still come in for weideman for a game to give Jack a week of ruck relief. 

Go dees!! 

2 hours ago, old dee said:

How many times has a forward with the stats of 1 kick and 3 hand passes survived?

Don't recall having seen it before OD, and i agree it shouldn't be happening with Weed now. 

In fact last week I'd have had Spencer in for Weed. Even Spencer'd have been a better forward, as would Max, plus Watts would have given us the forward class all day that we needed. Also with a good relieving 2nd ruck, Max would have been run a little less ragged giving a slight chance he may not have even been injured.  Running a player ragged slightly increases their chance of injury. 

3 hours ago, old dee said:

How many times has a forward with the stats of 1 kick and 3 hand passes survived?

Darcy Moore must be close

2017... 3 games ....20 kicks ... 8 handballs and 1 goal 2 behinds

53 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I would have thought that the much stronger and more experienced Pedo would have complemented that structure more effectively than the Weid.

I can only assume he's still underdone.

Two things...

Weideman is exceptionally brave in the air and does fly in many marking contests.  He may not be grabbing them, but can you remember the last time he was out-marked ?  He competes in the air far better than Pedersen, despite Pedersen taking the odd fine contested mark.  Weideman provides more ground opportunities than Pedersen, imo.

There's no doubt an element of "getting games into him", which will benefit the club long-term.  He, far more than Tim Smith, will be the beneficiary of any "line-ball" decisions.

15 minutes ago, The end is nigh said:

I'm very interested to see watts' tactics when covering for spencer. Sandilands should ruck about the same (maybe less) time as spencer but it's a tough proposition for watts when they crisis over.

I really hope watts tries to ruck it properly, rather than crafting some inferior tactic. Once the ruck duel ends, I hope he really exposes sandi at ground level. Going to be a bruising day for jack. 

Further to that point, I would love to see us win, and Pederson still come in for weideman for a game to give Jack a week of ruck relief. 

Go dees!! 

I would be shocked with Spencer in,  if Watts rucks against Sandilands, big Sandy has to have a break as well so Watts should ruck against his chop out

Spence is now an aerobic beast, reckon part of the plan will be to run Sandy around