Elephants in the room! x 2

[Demonsone 2,043]

12 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Weideman is the biggest underperformer in the team by far at present.  1 kick, 4 handballs,  1 mark and 1 tackle is nowhere near acceptable.  Pedesen must be back in the team ahead of Weideman now.  Weideman keeping his place in the side after two average to poor games first up, then an absolute shocker is bad for team culture - reeks of the gifting games to high draft picks that the club did so well to get away from.

I can't even  see how it's doing him any good developmentally or confidence wise to continue to play him in his present form.

Part of his development.....Giving him a taste and will be sent back to work on his game....Lets not start putting unrealistic expectations on a 2nd year KPP

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,878]

4 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

Part of his development.....Giving him a taste and will be sent back to work on his game....Lets not start putting unrealistic expectations on a 2nd year KPP

Agreed

[frankie_d 1,471]

11 hours ago, FireInTheBelly said:

I know it's harsh, and don't get me wrong, he was immense today. It's not an attack as such, but it's definitely accurate. He's been dropping those marks since day dot. It's his final frontier for me and he could have had a couple of shots on goal early that he wouldn't have missed.

Completely agree with what you've said, all players have weaknesses - but they can be overcome. Nate Jones kicking had people calling for his head early in his career. He's found a way, Watts needs to with his marking. Also correct on the other players, although I thought Clarrie copped a lot of illegal attention in the 1st quarter and that probably killed his tank as it would've been eating at him. From a tactical POV I think in those situations he'd be better off running a tag on the oppos best mid and try to take 2 out of the game, He's been noticed now which is a credit to his ability.

I think the Watts marking also plays out in his team mates "ignorning" him - we all know that is contested marking (even with smaller opponents) is not strong. He has plucked one or two over the years, but it's a weakness that causes his team mates to hesitate in delivery. He tried his heart out yesterday. 

[frankie_d 1,471]

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

He's always had the hands. He is one of the most naturally gifted players and his touch is sublime.

The fact that he doesn't clunk marks in packs is a between the ears issue. Nothing more, nothing less.

To put it bluntly, he doesn't embrace contact.

Thought he battled manfully yesterday after Gawn went down though. 

This. 

[FireInTheBennelly 4,099]

5 hours ago, sue said:

He took one in the game. Arms well out in front.  I assume you were distracted and didn't see it, rather thn suffering from bias.

No bias here Sue. As I've stated repeatedly I'm a fan and love him as a player, and he had a super game yesterday, but he has this one weakness. I must've missed the one he took yesterday as we had a short blackout during the game (the price you pay living in a 3rd world country), but surely you must've noticed him regularly dropping 'sodas'.

I'm not going to mention it again as I'd hate for this to become another Watts bashing thread, I only brought it up as I thought it fit with the topic. Likewise I didn't mention it in the post match thread as it certainly wasn't his fault that we lost the game.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,233]

Viney appears to have lost his burst acceleration into and out of the contest that saw him at his best last year. It appears that Goody is making him accountable at the contest (something that he has rarely been without a specific job) and I believe this is making him second guess his instinctive attack on the contest and away from it. If having lost form still equates to 25 disposals, 5 clearances and 8 tackles then I look forward to him hitting his straps. 

Watts was great for 3 quarters and then ran out of petrol. His attack on the ball and contest yesterday should be the weekly expectation regardless of his role.

Edited April 9, 2017 by big_red_fire_engine

[sue 9,142]

26 minutes ago, FireInTheBelly said:

No bias here Sue. As I've stated repeatedly I'm a fan and love him as a player, and he had a super game yesterday, but he has this one weakness. I must've missed the one he took yesterday as we had a short blackout during the game (the price you pay living in a 3rd world country), but surely you must've noticed him regularly dropping 'sodas'.

I'm not going to mention it again as I'd hate for this to become another Watts bashing thread, I only brought it up as I thought it fit with the topic. Likewise I didn't mention it in the post match thread as it certainly wasn't his fault that we lost the game.

Fair enough.  I agree contested marking is not his strong point.  Finding himself in space and no one kicking it to him is also not the strong point of others in the team. Let's hope both weaknesses become history.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,878]

4 hours ago, loges said:

We can't afford for Weideman to just have his 2 cameos and then have no further presence in the game, especially with Hogan out. We needed him to step up today and had no impact. Pedersen used to get ripped off every time they selected Dawes before him, it will be the same again if they don't start giving him a go, no world beater but plays his role

Not that it could have completely have been foreseen by anyone, but I actually think playing Weid over Pedesen partly cost us the game yesterday.  Would have provided an actual presence in the forward line, but also critically given us someone to share the ruck duties with Watts with and subsequently also given us a reliable goal kicker up forward.  We were getting so many inside fifty entries, that Jack would have got amoungst that and is nomally such a reliable kick on goal.

Having several half decent ruck backup options that can also hold their own in other parts of the ground when not in the ruck is a contingency, the value of which should not be under estimated.

[Akum 2,660]

16 hours ago, FireInTheBelly said:

Elephant 4 - I love Watts like a brother, but has he ever taken a mark in his hands out in front? Ever? He was terrific today but he dropped some easy marks, and some tough ones, but he should be expected to take them. I'm a little concerned he's been training at the Chris Dawes school of marking.

Clearly you like taking cheap shots at your brother.

[junk 342]

Probably the Weed needs to get dropped in all fairness to the players in waiting i.e Ped and Frost. Our defence is a bit weak,conceding 20 goals is not good enough and we are probably short of one quality mid,which i don't think we have spares.

[monoccular 17,573]

11 hours ago, picket fence said:

Yep and decisiveness is a key attribute which builds solid leadership! Take it or leave it!

Mmmmmm.....not so sure about that 

[FireInTheBennelly 4,099]

7 hours ago, Akum said:

Clearly you like taking cheap shots at your brother.

That's a far cry from a cheap shot pal, but whatever floats your boat. Like I've said repeatedly I rate him very highly and I think I'm within my rights to state this criticism in this thread. Last I'll say.

[leave it to deever 17,517]

On 4/9/2017 at 1:27 AM, A F said:

Yep, slightly better, but still way off the pace. He was coming from a low base. There was a moment today where Oliver dished out to Viney in a bit of space, who then had Jones in plenty of space. All Viney had to do was handball to Jones and we would have been off. Instead, he held the ball for what seemed like an eternity and was tackled, the ball spilled out and we lost our opportunity that should have been capitalised on.

Viney showed again he's quite slow to think. We also know the knock on his disposal. 

I think there's a very easy solution for Jack to get back into playing some good footy. Keep it simple. No hero footy, take the first option and he'll start to see some results. 

Disagree. The MC was right in its decision to go small. They brought defensive pressure. You wouldn't have a leg to stand on had we converted multiple opportunities from 30m out directly in front. Even now, you've got no leg to stand on IMO. We would have won if not for the kicking at goal. I like Pedersen but he wasn't going to win it for us today. Our kicking at goal was. And it didn't.

You missed my point. Smith and weids didnt have enough experience. They are not small frwds and there inexperience showed under a strong backline.. Sure we missed a lot but that happens. Having pedo or spencer in for one of those players would have iced it for us.

[old dee 23,872]

8 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

You missed my point. Smith and weids didnt have enough experience. They are not small frwds and there inexperience showed under a strong backline.. Sure we missed a lot but that happens. Having pedo or spencer in for one of those players would have iced it for us.

You have my vote.

If we play the Weid this week I will be very disappointed.

When he was on the ground last Saturday we were effectively playing with 17 men  most of the time.

[leave it to deever 17,517]

11 minutes ago, old dee said:

You have my vote.

If we play the Weid this week I will be very disappointed.

When he was on the ground last Saturday we were effectively playing with 17 men  most of the time.

I understand your post but I would prefer weid over smith and I think one of them will be in the side.

Weid is the future at 19 compared to 26 yo T. smith. Its a shame the other smith (sos) is out injured.

[old dee 23,872]

Just now, leave it to deever said:

I understand your post but I would prefer weid over smith and I think one of them will be in the side.

Weid is the future at 19 compared to 26 yo T. smith. Its a shame the other smith (sos) is out injured.

Only if he develops at present he is not contributing.

I don't see how you gain anything playing against apposition that keeps you to 1 kick and 3 handpasses.

Put him back to Casey where he can build his confidence.

Right now it must next to nil.

[leave it to deever 17,517]

Just now, old dee said:

Only if he develops at present he is not contributing.

I don't see how you gain anything playing against apposition that keeps you to 1 kick and 3 handpasses.

Put him back to Casey where he can build his confidence.

Right now it must next to nil.

Agreed OD it was a shocker. But so was Smiths. Do we drop them both? Weid was ok in the first 2 games. Aside from Pedo who do we have?

[old dee 23,872]

3 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Agreed OD it was a shocker. But so was Smiths. Do we drop them both? Weid was ok in the first 2 games. Aside from Pedo who do we have?

Smith stays ( it was his fist game he deserves another ) Weidman has had 6 games in a row in 2017, 3 in the pre season and 3  following.

He was poor in the pre season and I was surprised he got picked for the first game.

He was ok for half of the first game , Poor against Carlton and non existent against the Cats. IMO he goes back to Casey this week.

[Little Richard 6,265]

Weideman is far more exposed without Hogan in the side. Pedo should come in this week so that Weideman can have a couple of weeks plying his trade as the number one target up forward for Casey.

[george_on_the_outer 7,696]

Weidemann will stay purely to get games into the kid.  Unfortunately, last week he had to take the best defender when Hogan and Watts were not available, and Gawn wasn't there to drift into the forward line. He is far above VFL level and wouldn't learn anything by going back to Casey. He just didn't need to be thrown to the wolves, but we had no choice.

 Darcy Moore at Collngwood is half the threat as a player this year, because Cloke is not there any more.  Last week 5 kicks and 5 handballs 0 goals.  But like Weidemann he is getting games for experience. 

If Pedersen is fit then I would expect him to be returned to take the heat. 

[old dee 23,872]

2 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

Weidemann will stay purely to get games into the kid.  Unfortunately, last week he had to take the best defender when Hogan and Watts were not available, and Gawn wasn't there to drift into the forward line. He is far above VFL level and wouldn't learn anything by going back to Casey. He just didn't need to be thrown to the wolves, but we had no choice.

 Darcy Moore at Collngwood is half the threat as a player this year, because Cloke is not there any more.  Last week 5 kicks and 5 handballs 0 goals.  But like Weidemann he is getting games for experience. 

If Pedersen is fit then I would expect him to be returned to take the heat. 

Your bias is showing George

Weidemann is not far above VFL level in 2017.

Cloke did not play the majority of the 2016 season.

Moore's stats  were 150% better than the Weid last week. On top of that the Pies won.

 

[Adam The God 30,407]

4 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

You missed my point. Smith and weids didnt have enough experience. They are not small frwds and there inexperience showed under a strong backline.. Sure we missed a lot but that happens. Having pedo or spencer in for one of those players would have iced it for us.

We'll agree to disagree then.

[picket fence 17,500]

The Elephant is getting bigger. Viney a very limited footballer with and the decision which Goodwin and others made to make him co captain has backfired to the detriment of the club. I said at the time that I didn't agree 1 iota with this co captains model and today has proven me correct. I also said is last week Viney tries to beat tackle after tackle and his effectiveness is diminishing with this approach. They should drop him but they won"t.

Whislt im at it Jack Watts is the clasiest player we have, by far! 

Elephants are returning and so be it!

[DeeSpencer 26,081]

Maybe just me but I'm pretty sure I saw a captain take a really strong grab and kick a goal to put us in front and it didn't look like Nathan Jones to me.

A step in the right direction today.

[Lord Travis 10,763]

Who would have thought at the start of the year that Jack Viney would be showing no intensity and struggling, whilst Jack Watts would be busting his gut and leading the team!

Been a strange season so far!

Credit to Watts for playing good football and busting his gut so far this season. He'd have to be top 5 in bluey again. Hopefully Viney finds form as he is having now impact at all this year. So disappointing thus far this season.