Welcome to Demonland: Jake Lever

[Crystal Dees 372]

3 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Cheers, Lampers.

The main bit I got out of this is how much Petracca loves the Dees and will play his career here with us.  Love it!

Read Lampers very accurate report again. It's not that certain Trac will stay a Demon, just that he won't leave Victoria. Not suggesting he won't be a Demon for life but I didn't get the same comfort as you.

[DV8 2,271]

4 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

We'll see.  He's in the same category as Hogan - would you take that for him?

No, an intercept Tall Defender is no way as valuable or as rare, as a Key Tall Forward.

Not on the same page.

[old55 23,856]

3 minutes ago, DV8 said:

No, an intercept Tall Defender is no way as valuable or as rare, as a Key Tall Forward.

Not on the same page.

Rance v J.Riewoldt?

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Didn't we get Hibberd for pick 25ish?

Pick 10 for Lever seems fair to me. Increase in price over Hibberd commensurate with his younger age.

Plus, as with many trades in AFL land, it's simply the currency we have. Lots of trades will end up being a little 'overs' or 'unders' just because one party doesn't have exactly the right pick/player/combination of the two. Trades still get done because the clubs know that nothing will ever happen if every single club holds out for the exact right price in every single trade.

[DV8 2,271]

4 hours ago, Dee tention said:

I think the key to this trade is Adelaide getting the Dees 2018 1st round pick in a stronger draft. Thats going to be Adelaides priority.

Other pick swaps will be based around that.

 

Yep, Lever for our 2018 1st Pick, & 2017 2nd Pick. 

That should do it. No more.

[Lampers 563]

42 minutes ago, Crystal Dees said:

Read Lampers very accurate report again. It's not that certain Trac will stay a Demon, just that he won't leave Victoria. Not suggesting he won't be a Demon for life but I didn't get the same comfort as you.

Yep, the stay in Victoria was really firm from his manager, the stay at Dees was more what the manager would say when playing a straight bat, it didn't have the same conviction.

That's not to panic anyone, I read it as family means a heap to Petracca so his manager couldn't foresee a time Petracca would choose to move away from the family - EVER. Which means Adelaide would never be possible. That's all.

A Manager would not say a player would NEVER EVER consider changing clubs, that's kind of destroying part of their negotiating power.

[daisycutter 29,997]

4 minutes ago, Choke said:

Didn't we get Hibberd for pick 25ish?

Pick 10 for Lever seems fair to me. Increase in price over Hibberd commensurate with his younger age.

Plus, as with many trades in AFL land, it's simply the currency we have. Lots of trades will end up being a little 'overs' or 'unders' just because one party doesn't have exactly the right pick/player/combination of the two. Trades still get done because the clubs know that nothing will ever happen if every single club holds out for the exact right price in every single trade.

29 actually. and because of draft anomalies i think it ended being actually 31 or similar

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Just now, daisycutter said:

29 actually. and because of draft anomalies i think it ended being actually 31 or similar

wow ok, even better

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, Fifty-5 said:

Adelaide want Gibbs and Carlton played hard ball last year demanding 2 x 1st rounders.  Something like this could play out, noting that unfortunately Carlton do not have a 2017 2nd:

Adelaide: Out: 17 + Lever; In: 10 + Gibbs

Carlton: Out: Gibbs + 2018 2nd; In: 17 + MFC 2018 1st

MFC: Out: 10 + 2018 1st; In: Lever + Carlton 2018 2nd

Why do you value Gibbs so high? He is 28.5Yrs already, with shot legs.  He's not that valuable.

Early 2nd Rnd pick, if it's in 2018.  I think he's in the range of 15 - 20, in 2017 draft picks.

 

 

[DV8 2,271]

9 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Rance v J.Riewoldt?

Yeah Riewoldt every time.

Now rance v tex walker?

[old55 23,856]

1 minute ago, DV8 said:

Why do you value Gibbs so high? He is 28.5Yrs already, with shot legs.  He's not that valuable.

Early 2nd Rnd pick, if it's in 2018.  I think he's in the range of 15 - 20, in 2017 draft picks.

 

 

Carlton value him that high and he's in contract so they hold the aces.

[old55 23,856]

1 minute ago, DV8 said:

Yeah Riewoldt every time.

Now rance v tex walker?

I'm sure Richmond wouldn't see it that way - they'd look for the same value in trade for each.  Rance more if anything.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Fifty-5

[mo64 5,910]

1 minute ago, DV8 said:

Why do you value Gibbs so high? He is 28.5Yrs already, with shot legs.  He's not that valuable.

Early 2nd Rnd pick, if it's in 2018.  I think he's in the range of 15 - 20, in 2017 draft picks.

 

 

Whilst I agree with you, Gibbs is contracted, and Carlton don't want to lose him. They can put whatever price on his head they like. Which is why I'd leave Carlton out of any trade scenarios when it comes to Lever. Deal directly with the Crows, and get it done early.

[Demons11 7,135]

21 minutes ago, DV8 said:

Yeah Riewoldt every time.

Now rance v tex walker?

I'd take Rance over both 

[DV8 2,271]

15 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Carlton value him that high and he's in contract so they hold the aces.

That may well be but I don't think others hold a player going on 29 before the bounce of 2018 as high as you seem to.  He's probably got 3 good years, in him.

Is he on your books?

16 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I'm sure Richmond wouldn't see it that way - they'd look for the same value in trade for each.  Rance more if anything.

Take Riewoldt out of the tigers forwardline & they will falter to score.

Take Rance out, and the opposition will score more, but Richmond will still be able to score well.

The Tiger defenders would have to work harder & smarter. And they would probably have more pace & run. But they wouldn't be as good.

I think Riewoldt's more recent seasons have him undervalued, because of his poorer early years & temperament.

[Ted Lasso 19,586]

24 minutes ago, DV8 said:

Yeah Riewoldt every time.

Now rance v tex walker?

Don't watch a lot of footy do ya?

[DeeSpencer 26,660]

44 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Rance v J.Riewoldt?

Rance, but he can play on an opponent and he's a one man wrecking machine at full back preventing teams from scoring. 

Lever might become that but right now he hasn't shown any ability to play on a key forward opponent and gets to float around half back where there's more room and less at stake. 

In terms of comparing positions I'd say an intercepting half back isn't as rare and as valuable as a key forward, but I'd also say Lever is about as good as a prospect as you'd find in that position.

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,815]

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

Thats too much. You dont give up two nice assets for Lever.

Thats 2nd rounder has value. 

They want 2 first rounders ffs I think it's slightly overs but it's our top recruiting priority. They are not touching our 1st rounder in 2018 no [censored] way. They have another backmen thats suppose to be just as he as Lever in Tommy Doodee. So they shouldn't be too greedy.

[binman 44,788]

1 hour ago, Fifty-5 said:

Rance v J.Riewoldt?

Not a great comparion i don't think in terms of the point DV8 is making. You'd take Rance in a heartbeat but JW isn't really the classic key forward. Don't get me wrong a terrific player but he is relatively small and so less remarkable from that perspective.

A better comparison might be Rance v Kennedy. That would be more of a conundrum. But to be honest i'd still go with Rance. He is one of the best defenders i've ever seen, no doubt. And his ability is proven over many seasons

Rance v Buddy? That gets more tricky and i'd take Buddy.

What about Lever v Patton? Or for that matter Lever v Hogan? For what its worth i'd take Patton and Hogan, no question. 

[DV8 2,271]

2 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

I'm sure Richmond wouldn't see it that way - they'd look for the same value in trade for each.  Rance more if anything.

They possibly would, but not certainly, as they don't have any other good tall forwards that I know of.

The point I'm making is your overvaluing Gibbs.

And comparing Lever to Rance, who is a number of years into an elite footy career. So Rance is an established elite player.

Lever is just a spring chicken in terms of playing that top level, on a consistent year on year basis.

2 hours ago, mo64 said:

Whilst I agree with you, Gibbs is contracted, and Carlton don't want to lose him. They can put whatever price on his head they like. Which is why I'd leave Carlton out of any trade scenarios when it comes to Lever. Deal directly with the Crows, and get it done early.

Its not about so much about Gibbs perceived trade value, as we don't want to trade with Carlton if don't have to.

But my reasoning is more about this willingness to give away more than we should have to to bring a player into the club.

Sometimes I think we can talk ourselves into bidding, against our own bids.

We have to learn to play hard ball, if we are to learn to fight it out against the tougher clubs.

They are no push over because they value they're own club interests, ahead of other clubs.

We have to play with the same set of rules.

[Males 578]

I don't want to give up two 1st round picks. ?

[worldwideweb_demon 90]

Hopefully we don't have to give up too much.

We seem to get very little in return when we trade away our favourite players... eg jeff farmer for 17, woewodin for 14, darren jolly for 15 etc

[Jibroni 5,056]

I agree. I would only consider 2 first rounders if the include Galluci (2016 Adl first rounder) as part of the deal.

Just as a side note its pretty amazing this thread is now approaching 2300 posts, we need more things to talk about!

[Ted Lasso 19,586]

If the crows have mentioned petracca who they couldn't get a trade done for without lever, it's a pretty sure sign that he's on his way to the demons. 

I keep thinking of it like, if this were Jesse hogan what would we be asking for? I'm not sure lever is quite as valuable as hogan but he's in that same catagory. 

Pick 10 definitely and the question is how much more. I think a fringe player or a second round pick feels fair to me. 

[What 18,810]

45 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

I agree. I would only consider 2 first rounders if the include Galluci (2016 Adl first rounder) as part of the deal.

 

We might have a winner here.

Pick 10  + 2018 1st rounder 

for

Jake Lever and Jordan Gallucci

 

Gallucci would be a nice addition, he has something we need in the midfield - lightning speed and a willingness to take the game on.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Petraccattack