25 minutes ago, H_T said:

Jaded & mauriesy summed it up well on the other page of this thread with OMac. 

It is the greater picture. The FD knows what they'll get with Dunn, Grimes etc, they're finding out what they'll get with OMac. They're instilling some belief and confidence in him ATM so HE knows that he is capable and they're teaching him what he can do better and what he needs to work on. 

He's in his second year, a important year in his development. We need to mould the new look defence for 2017-20 period (and beyond). Is Dunn a part of that? Most probably not. 

Our team wasn't far off Hawthorn on the weekend and it was a good test defensively and they did ok. If our forwards functioned and performed how we'd know and like them to perform (ie. Hogan, Garlett, Dawes) we may have well won. 

The next 2 rounds are indeed huge for team performance. Collingwood in QB and Sydney. Two high pressure games. Playing one of these is worth 5 games of experience for a first year player or player with less than 10 games of experience IMO.

Totally agree with the bolded bit. Both got it spot on.

Agree with the rest your post as well H_T and given that i have to say good points well made

I was going to make a similar point about experience as the one you made in the second bit i bolded. Impossible to replicate the experience gained - and more importantly the development and learnings - by playing a high pressure game against the team who have won the last 3 flags lining up at Casey.

Whilst i'm not adverse to them sending him back to the VFL at some point to consolidate his learnings or to ask him to focus on developing a specific aspect  of his 'craft' however i'm firmly in the keep in the ones camp. And i'm a Dunn fan.

Besides he played ok  on the weekend and whilst some may not rate Burgans' analysis i assume most rate the footy IQ of Roos and Goodwin. Or perhaps not (cue calls of Roos admitting he got selection wrong on a  number of occasions). They keep on picking him so i can only assume they think it is the right decision. But what would they know?

Have to admire Roos. He has selected three super inexperienced players in Wagner, Hunt and OMac and thrown them in the deep end down back. True to his word he is about building a list that can win multiple premierships not protect his win loss ratio. Gutsy for a coach in the final year of a storied coaching career. Goodwin - who with demons fans, will reap the benefit - must love him. 

I was sittting on the MCC level 3 balcony as always and there were audible groans every time O Mac was involved.  I nearly spat out my quail on a few occassions.  Doesn't seem to be a favourite of the crew up there!  Or me.

But I'm highly critical of anyone who's not Neville Jetta these days.

 

 

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

For those criticising Oscar this is from the mfc website vs Hawks:

"Big O building - In just his sixth AFL match, 20-year-old emerging defender Oscar McDonald had a personal-best 22 disposals – Melbourne’s fourth highest ball-winner for the match".

If I recall his DE was 70% - yes I know DE isn't everything but 70% sure ain't bad when your disposal is 4th highest for the team (behind only our 3 best mids) and it is only your 6th game.  Add to that his smothers and spoils.  All against the reigning Premiers. Not only that he plays to the coaches game plan!!

What else do people want? 

He is more than holding his own.  Doubt those in the VFL that are being touted here as replacements can boast that overall performance.

No he isn't and you know it.

And you know that disposals are totally misleading when used like this.

On 6/5/2016 at 11:33 AM, Undeeterred said:

A cheap shot.

It wasn't a cheap shot. I come on here regularly to try to digest the team performance each week, and the negatives still appear, regardless of winning or losing, with monotonous regularity. Instead of seeing progress and obvious development in a young team (something lots of people have criticised the club for lacking in the past), the pessimists just see errors, lack of effort, 'laziness' and so-called 'poor coaching'. When we beat the Suns by 63 points, there were still as many negative as positive posts. Go back through the post-game discussion for that match and see how many were critical that we didn't win by 20 goals.

The fact that we were in Saturday's game until half way through the last quarter, and particularly until Bannister paid his self-admitted wrong free kick to Kade Stewart at a critical time for a goal, plus the turnaround of 90 points from the last time Hawthorn and Melbourne met, indicates to me that we are getting a lot, lot better. But I guess that's not good enough for those who see negativism as a way of life.

As for attracting players in the future like Hurley, they'd have to be blind not to see Melbourne's potential ... 8 wins or 11 wins this year is not going to be the critical diference.

And as for Weidemann and Hulett, if the football department thinks they are deserving of a game, I'll support them and still tolerate some mistakes on their part in the name of 'improvement' and 'development', just like I do for Oscar MacDonald.

1 hour ago, H_T said:

Well I'm sure he gained confidence from Saturday.

While confidence is a factor, I don't actually see it as the main learning issue for players like Oscar (and Weideman and Hulett).

I see the benefits for young players as experiencing and understanding the pace of the game, the skill required, the speed and instantaneous nature of the decision making and the constancy of physical input. Something you don't get in the seconds.

6 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

While confidence is a factor, I don't actually see it as the main learning issue for players like Oscar (and Weideman and Hulett).

I see the benefits for young players as experiencing and understanding the pace of the game, the skill required, the speed and instantaneous nature of the decision making and the constancy of physical input. Something you don't get in the seconds.

I agree. It's about acclimatising to the tempo

For mine the experience is a necessary but having tasted it I for one feel they need to then go back and refine the elements that they were found wanting in. Every so often return to the 1sts... evaluate, back to Magoo's etc. Rotate.

Just lobbing in there doesn't strike me as anything clever. 

Please don't play him on Cloke or Cox this weekend, for god sake.

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I agree. It's about acclimatising to the tempo

For mine the experience is a necessary but having tasted it I for one feel they need to then go back and refine the elements that they were found wanting in. Every so often return to the 1sts... evaluate, back to Magoo's etc. Rotate.

Just lobbing in there doesn't strike me as anything clever. 

I think it depends on whether what the coaching staff want him to learn is best done at the highest level or at Casey. There may be arguments for both over time.

That, and the existence of another player of the same height who can replace him. Oscar's advantage is that he's 196cm.

2 minutes ago, The Song Formerly Known As said:

Please don't play him on Cloke or Cox this weekend, for god sake.

That worrying thought had crossed my mind. Gave me shivers

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

For those criticising Oscar this is from the mfc website vs Hawks:

"Big O building - In just his sixth AFL match, 20-year-old emerging defender Oscar McDonald had a personal-best 22 disposals – Melbourne’s fourth highest ball-winner for the match".

If I recall his DE was 70% - yes I know DE isn't everything but 70% sure ain't bad when your disposal is 4th highest for the team (behind only our 3 best mids) and it is only your 6th game.  Add to that his smothers and spoils.  All against the reigning Premiers. Not only that he plays to the coaches game plan!!

What else do people want? 

He is more than holding his own.  Doubt those in the VFL that are being touted here as replacements can boast that overall performance.

We live in a society of instant gratification where people struggle to be patient.

OMac is playing rather well for a 20 year old key defender with 6 games under his belt. He'll be right.

14 minutes ago, The Song Formerly Known As said:

Please don't play him on Cloke or Cox this weekend, for god sake.

McDonald to Cloke (hopefully with a bit of run off) and Frost to Cox.

1 minute ago, Django said:

T McDonald to Cloke (hopefully with a bit of run off) and Frost to Cox.

fixed 

Hes going to be a fine player. He will be better than Tom I reckon, for starters he can kick and has shown already he can make good decisions with the footy.

Not his fault hes been thrown to the wolves, and I reckon hes handled it well. The hysteria on here is ludicrous.

Did I read correctly that Oscar made the Team of the Week at FB?

Oscar played pretty well on saturday in a poor defence.  his best game I though.  Certainly won't be dropped.

1 hour ago, The Song Formerly Known As said:

Please don't play him on Cloke or Cox this weekend, for god sake.

you could play Ronald McDonald on Cloke and you'd be OK the way he is playing

reality is he wont be dropped for the very simple reason theres no one really ready to replace him ( thats in favour )   So it all becomes moot

6 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Did I read correctly that Oscar made the Team of the Week at FB?

AFL Ratings Team of the Week

Team of the Week - Round 11
Debuts: O.McDonald, A.McD-Tip, L.Whitfield
4th appearance of '16: H.Shaw, M.Gawn, M.Bont

1 minute ago, Whispering_Jack said:

AFL Ratings Player of the Week

Team of the Week - Round 11
Debuts: O.McDonald, A.McD-Tip, L.Whitfield
4th appearance of '16: H.Shaw, M.Gawn, M.Bont

I wonder if this will shut a few up? He's doing fine and let him keep developing in the 1's.

4 minutes ago, DubDee said:

you could play Ronald McDonald on Cloke and you'd be OK the way he is playing

But lets not jinx it.

7 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

AFL Ratings Team of the Week

Team of the Week - Round 11
Debuts: O.McDonald, A.McD-Tip, L.Whitfield
4th appearance of '16: H.Shaw, M.Gawn, M.Bont

What source is this exactly? Nothing on the AFL website. Is this one of those dodgy facebook pages where people who haven't even watched the game vote based on disposal count?

I mean seriously, he'll get there, but team of the week this week? No.

 

5 minutes ago, stuie said:

What source is this exactly? Nothing on the AFL website. Is this one of those dodgy facebook pages where people who haven't even watched the game vote based on disposal count?

I mean seriously, he'll get there, but team of the week this week? No.

 

In all seriousness stuie, what did Oscar do wrong on the weekend? Apart from his big clanger when he got pinged for holding the ball, I don't think I saw him get beaten one on one or make a glaring error. I'm a bit perplexed as to why someone would think he had a bad game on the weekend. That's not directed at yourself but to supporters in general.

20 minutes ago, stuie said:

What source is this exactly? Nothing on the AFL website. Is this one of those dodgy facebook pages where people who haven't even watched the game vote based on disposal count?

I mean seriously, he'll get there, but team of the week this week? No.

 

Twitter was the source. FWIW, the tweet had an AFL Logo.

47 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Twitter was the source. FWIW, the tweet had an AFL Logo.

What a joke! Did you even read the tweet? Was it from the offical AFL Twitter account? Did people even watch the game? Where did they watch it? From what seat? Disposal count? Words? 

(In Stuies voice)

Edited June 6, 20169 yr by Ethan Tremblay

22 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

In all seriousness stuie, what did Oscar do wrong on the weekend? Apart from his big clanger when he got pinged for holding the ball, I don't think I saw him get beaten one on one or make a glaring error. I'm a bit perplexed as to why someone would think he had a bad game on the weekend. That's not directed at yourself but to supporters in general.

I've put it in my other posts, but I'l just clarify it here too. I think he can become a player for us, got hopes for him, and i don't think he was terrible on Saturday, but I watched him get beaten in the air and on the ground a fair bit and I think it's a bit of a stretch for him to be in the "team of the week" after that game.

I know everything on Demonland can become one extreme or the other, but honestly I don't think he deserves bashing or praising.

 

Edited June 6, 20169 yr by stuie