28 minutes ago, rpfc said:

How tall is Smith? Can he ruck?

About 192cms.  Has the body, but not the height. Could do a few contests though. Same height as Pedo.

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

No. 

They won't take marks 'inside 50' often enough to hit the scoreboard and are a complete liability when it comes to forward pressure and ground balls.

We averaged 3 marks 'inside 50' per quarter in 2016, which is evidence that the ball is on the deck in the forward-line far more often than it's controlled in the air.  The best 'player average' was West Coast's Josh Kennedy, who couldn't quite average one mark 'inside 50' per quarter per game.  If he can't average one mark 'inside 50' per quarter per game how many do you expect Spencer to take ?  And once the ball is on the deck he's virtually useless.

It will be rare if Melbourne plays two rucks in 2017.  So rare I doubt we'll see one.  It happened in 2015 down at the Cattery, but that experiment only happened twice more that season.

 

Agree, can't see it happening.

Also with the focus on quick ball movement over the preseason it would be counterproductive to carry an extra ruck.

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

About 192cms.  Has the body, but not the height. Could do a few contests though. Same height as Pedo.

Thats not big enough

3rd Tall is pederson.

love his physicality, his marking is very good and he brings the ball to ground. And he can ruck. would love him to have an injury free run.

the others can earn their spot at Casey

17 minutes ago, dino rover said:

Thats not big enough

Pedo at 193cm 98kg

John Nichols 189cm 105kg

Polly Farmer 191cm 94kg

How times have changed. Adam Goodes played in the ruck at 194cm and now you need to be 200cm plus.

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

3rd Tall is pederson.

love his physicality, his marking is very good and he brings the ball to ground. And he can ruck. would love him to have an injury free run.

the others can earn their spot at Casey

I think Pedersen will go the way of the DoDo, just like Dunn did last year.

Goodwin wanted games into Oscar and I think he'll do the same for Weideman, who also needs games.

2 hours ago, dino rover said:

Thats not big enough

Not big enough for what?

To be a third tall forward you have to be .....tall.

191 is midfield tall - its been tried in various forms like howe and dunne and it didnt work

196 plus that can ruck would be preferable

Maybe pedo is the only option maybe worth developing taller talent - I favour the latter

33 minutes ago, dino rover said:

To be a third tall forward you have to be .....tall.

191 is midfield tall - its been tried in various forms like howe and dunne and it didnt work

196 plus that can ruck would be preferable

Maybe pedo is the only option maybe worth developing taller talent - I favour the latter

Seeing as Watts did it last season, I think he (Watts) is still the number one option.

He was competitive enough, it seemed to help his game and the opposition had to watch out for him as an extra mid.

Looking at Hoges in the preseason and how cut he is suggests we might not play too many fixed talls deep.

I'd love to see a mixture of players running chaotic patterns towards (and angles across) goal against traditional lumbering gorilla-minders. 

Maybe the Lockett type lead up forward is dead?

Hogan will be a floating forward/mid a bit like Buddy. Watts could do some ruckwork with main focus on forward pocket position. T.Smith probably start at FF.Vanders may get a run in the forward line. Weeds not ready yet for key role and may end up in a forward pocket. Pedo will struggle to get a senior game. Petracca with be a prolific forward.

I do like the option of Frost going into the ruck with Watts dropping back late in the qtr. They can't continue to play Watts as ruck. 

Other wise Pedersen or Smith. Smith has rucked games at VFL level, so i think they are both capable. 

43 minutes ago, _becks_ said:

They can't continue to play Watts as ruck. 

 

That has been acknowledged by the FD.

On 20 December 2016 at 4:47 AM, FlashInThePan said:

....

I seem to remember him [Vanders], recurited as mature age, being listed as 188cm in his first season. I note you are correct Chook, he is listed on the site as 191 now. How did he grow 3cm in his mid 20's??

Brings new meaning to the expression "he has grown in stature".

But back to topic, do we necessarily always need a "third tall forward"?  And indeed, what is a third tall forward?  Someone who can run and grab a decent mark, even if not a pack mark?  Vanders, Petracca could certainly fill the latter definition.

On 12/20/2016 at 9:38 AM, ArtificialWisdom said:

I think we have the capabiliy to stretch teams with size. Vandenberg is a midfielder but big enough to play as a key which is a huge asset. Playing him as a "4th" tall could cause all sorts of problems. He is mobile enough to play tall or small depending on the situation. Watts is quickish for his size and is capable of out running tall defenders or out marking small ones. With Kent and Garlett around we should have enough pace if they can be consistant with their pressure. T Smith is a natural footballer and I'd like to see him get a run at it early in the season but if he struggles to cement his spot then I think Pedo comes in. Kent, Tracc, Brayshaw, Salem and maybe Hannan can all rotate between mid and forward.

Maybe we could see a forward lineup something like this? Unfortunatly that means Watts continues as ruck relief but I like Watts' skill around the ground when he plays the ruck role anyway. Watts, Lewis and Salem with Jones, Viney and Tyson is a pretty good mix of skill and grunt in and around the contest, but I digress.

HF:  Kent, Hogan, Watts
F:    Garlett, TSmith, Vandenberg

Rotating with Kent: CP5, Brayshaw, Salem. Tyson? (Tyson's a bit of an after thought but he can kick a goal)

Edit:
Obviously this leaves out the Weid. While I like him and think he will be a star I still believe he should spend more time at Casey than in the seniors. He will get a go at some stage. Either form or injury above him will give him the chance but I wouldn't have him in the team come round 1. (A fantastic BLT or whatever its called series might change my mind)

Couldn't agree more.  Hogan,Smith and VDB give us the hardness we've been crying out for in the f50.  And then CP5 to rotate through we lose none of that hardness.  A real Weagles feel about that line up.

The third tallest in the forward line.

It seems clear that we now have genuine depth, but we also have quite different but effective alternative options all over the field, eg, Garlett, VDB and Petracca as mids or forwards, Watts on the wing or as a dedicated forward, Hunt off half back or as an outside mid etc.

In short, we have several players who can be dangerous in multiple positions - that spells 'deadly' for an opposition coach.

The list is starting to develop its own X factor.

 

On 19 December 2016 at 4:36 PM, Dee Dee said:

Garland was a forward in his younger days and did a good job when moved there for a game or two a few years back.

i wouldn't see him as a permanent forward, rather as a "surprise" forward. I think it was in a game against Collingwood (???) he took everyone by surprise and kicked  3 or 4.

I think it was against Essendon and we won our first game of the season because of him.

Please don't bring back these bad memories of the Mark Neeld era. Let us never speak of it again.

Suggestion over dinner with my brother > Gawn as Full Forward, Spencer in the Ruck. By reading the training reports, maybe not a stupid idea.

On 21/12/2016 at 8:40 PM, _becks_ said:

I do like the option of Frost going into the ruck with Watts dropping back late in the qtr. They can't continue to play Watts as ruck. 

Other wise Pedersen or Smith. Smith has rucked games at VFL level, so i think they are both capable. 

 

On 21/12/2016 at 9:24 PM, Redleg said:

That has been acknowledged by the FD.

...but they will use him there all the same.

The comment about Watts in the ruck came from Mahoney when we said we were in the hunt for a forward/ruck. We didn't find one so Watts will be it.

Frost can't do it, and as 'ProDee' said 

On 21/12/2016 at 2:26 PM, ProDee said:

I think Pedersen will go the way of the DoDo

Spencer is a back up and will only get a run if Max is injured.

4 minutes ago, CBDees said:

Suggestion over dinner with my brother > Gawn as Full Forward, Spencer in the Ruck. By reading the training reports, maybe not a stupid idea.

...the only problem is it doesn't work. Sorry it's a very poor idea and not well thought through.

Max is the number one ruck in the competition. 

Why would we consider putting a 2nd stringer at best in his place and then playing Max in a position he can't play!!!

 

On 22 December 2016 at 4:40 AM, stinga said:

Couldn't agree more.  Hogan,Smith and VDB give us the hardness we've been crying out for in the f50.  And then CP5 to rotate through we lose none of that hardness.  A real Weagles feel about that line up.

Smith, at this stage, is a totally unproven even if wishful, entity.

Hogan, VDB and CP5, sure, but hows about giving the Smiths a chance to show something before putting too high expectations upon them  

Vandenberg won't even make the side if we're injury free. He can't kick or handball, so he's not a good forward option, IMO. He gets away with it in the midfield and he can bob up and kick a couple, but I have no faith in him doing this consistently.

I reckon Pedersen and Smith will share the load in the first half of the season and then like @Dr. Gonzo, I think and hope Weideman will take a regular role by season's end.

3 hours ago, rjay said:

Spencer is a back up and will only get a run if Max is injured.

I don't disagree, although I'm not sure why you're quoting me. 

3 hours ago, CBDees said:

Suggestion over dinner with my brother > Gawn as Full Forward, Spencer in the Ruck. By reading the training reports, maybe not a stupid idea.

Spencer is looking much improved but doubt he's got to anywhere above basic competence as a ruckman and would still be a long way from it forward. 

It worked once down at Geelong because they didn't have a recognised ruckman playing that day and Gawn kicked 2 goals (I think) and Spencer 1 playing forward. Even then I think it was about a 65-35 split Gawn/Spencer in the ruck and therefore maybe 25/50 split forward. So Spencer has to be able to hold his own up forward, even if that just meanss competing in the air and tackle pressure.

Wouldn't shock me if we try it in preseason to give Spencer game time and maybe try it at least once during the season if we have injuries or form issues, but can't see it happening long term.