Training - Wednesday 14th December, 2016

[Salems Lot 2,485]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

I totally agree,  but you see them arrive from junior ranks with no other foot   of the present group, the only players who look totally at ease are Hogan,  Jones, Vince, Salem

I think Trengove is pretty comfortable on both.

[rjay 24,834]

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

im still staggered that these elite juniors that come through cant kick on their NP.  what kind of junior coaches would they have they wouldn't include NP kicking at training? you want to be at the very least servicable on your NP

amateur stuff

 

51 minutes ago, tilly18 said:

When kicking became king the focus was to develop a weapon on your preferred. NP was dropped out of the equation.

 

27 minutes ago, DubDee said:

madness!  it is possible to do both when its your full time job

What 'tilly18' says is right...

The theory was that you were much more reliable on your preferred foot and much, much more likely to turn over a kick on the np.

So like the drop kick of old the np was all but banned by coaches (became a team rule). Jeans was a big one on this...and even the current Hawk teams rarely (apart from Mitchell) used or could kick well on the np.

The thinking was that if the team was functioning as it should then there should always be a teammate/s in support and you shouldn't run into trouble.

I would be interested in why Goodie is training up the np, maybe 'Sat' could ask Macca the reasoning behind it. I could almost guarantee it's not as simple as getting out of trouble.

Maybe the wheel has turned...

Edited December 14, 2016 by rjay

[Gorgoroth 12,911]

11 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

 

What 'tilly18' says is right...

The theory was that you were much more reliable on your preferred foot and much, much more likely to turn over a kick on the np.

So like the drop kick of old the np was all but banned by coaches (became a team rule). Jeans was a big one on this...and even the current Hawk teams rarely (apart from Mitchell) used or could kick well on the np.

The thinking was that if the team was functioning as it should then there should always be a teammate/s in support and you shouldn't run into trouble.

I would be interested in why Goodie is training up the np, maybe 'Sat' could ask Macca the reasoning behind it. I could almost guarantee it's not as simple as getting out of trouble.

Maybe the wheel has turned...

So many opponents know which is your natural side and correll you onto your np.

If you are decent on your np then this is less effective. 

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

12 minutes ago, rjay said:

I would be interested in why Goodie is training up the np, maybe 'Sat' could ask Macca the reasoning behind it. I could almost guarantee it's not as simple as getting out of trouble.

I think it provides a player with more options and makes us harder to cover.  I'd imagine not all players will use their NP but it's a great tool to have.  It effectively adds to a persons agility if they can go both ways.

[SaberFang 7,151]

Love Lewis rubbing his hands with glee at the end. So much to love about such a short video.

[Fat Tony 5,216]

39 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

The highlight of the short bit of training I watched today was Petracca marking with a group of forwards. He'd take up front spot and a kick would come in and he'd go head to head with some of the other tall forwards, with the winner staying on. Tracc used his strength and athleticism to mark 3 in a row against Hulett, Watts and Weid (I think). There was a lot of cheering and hollering. Then he went against Gawn who had too much strength and reach and out marked him.

Garlett was too strong/clever for Ben Ken and JKH.

Thanks Spence. So Kennedy-Harris returned to training?

[DeeSpencer 25,398]

18 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

 

What 'tilly18' says is right...

The theory was that you were much more reliable on your preferred foot and much, much more likely to turn over a kick on the np.

So like the drop kick of old the np was all but banned by coaches (became a team rule). Jeans was a big one on this...and even the current Hawk teams rarely (apart from Mitchell) used or could kick well on the np.

The thinking was that if the team was functioning as it should then there should always be a teammate/s in support and you shouldn't run into trouble.

I would be interested in why Goodie is training up the np, maybe 'Sat' could ask Macca the reasoning behind it. I could almost guarantee it's not as simple as getting out of trouble.

Maybe the wheel has turned...

I'd just be guessing but I'm kind of hoping the theory is:

1. We'll never kick (or run) as well as Hawthorn so we can't recreate their ball movement.
2. Pressure is going up and up with each year to the extent that having clean skills is becoming nearly impossible - even the Hawks have fallen back
3. Our list is strongest in ball winning and competitive ability of our players so pin point accuracy isn't required

That's if it's to become a major part of the game plan. If not, it might just be a subtle tweet to get some basic competency out of some players whilst encouraging those who can use both sides to keep doing that. 

I can't imagine it's a major factor but given these guys work in small percentages I'd imagine the sports science staff would like more balance between using both sides. It's got to be good for the back and hammies to work both sides in a long training session.

[DeeSpencer 25,398]

1 minute ago, Fat Tony said:

Thanks Spence. So Kennedy-Harris returned to training?

Nope sorry he was injured in this drill. Just copped a ball right on the end of a finger. Couldn't tell if it was dislocated or just jarred but as he went back to AAMI after it I assume he managed to dislocate it.

[Satyriconhome 10,675]

Yes JKH finger was at a lovely angle

Will ask Macca about the non preferred

Think some of the posts have it covered

[tiers 2,822]

Notice how many times large packs form and players have to scramble to just kick to clear out under helter skelter pressure. It became a feature of play in 2016. If a player is comfortable both sides, it provides another option for short clearance kicks otherwise he risks turning into the pack and having the kick smothered. Cunningly clever - it is all about options to dispose to a teammate to advantage, not long NP passes lace out at eye level.

Jones and Vince are naturals both sides. Watts can be hesitant and is not as effective. Brayshaw kicked a sausage roll this year from 50m on left foot after clever piece of evasion. Further Clarko recruited left footers for a reason - because they turn clockwise whereas the majority who are right footers turn anti-clockwise they have a natural advantge. Watch closely next season how Salem, Kent, Lewis Hibbert and the bi's have a advantage. The natural part is the turn, not the kick.

 

[Demonated 252]

1 hour ago, Gorgoroth said:

So many opponents know which is your natural side and correll you onto your np.

If you are decent on your np then this is less effective. 

Actually, I've always thought that this is a massive skill gap amongst AFL players. They often don't put players on their non-preferred when it's the obvious defensive strategy. I think it's literally no better at AFL than at amateur level. If I was on an opponent when I played I would be mindful after the first time, particularly for a left footer.

The amount of times opposition allow obviously one-sided players like Franklin, Gaff, etc. onto their preferred foot is baffling at times. Even the best players/teams do it on a regular basis.

[Its Time for Another 4,187]

2 hours ago, rjay said:

 

 

What 'tilly18' says is right...

The theory was that you were much more reliable on your preferred foot and much, much more likely to turn over a kick on the np.

So like the drop kick of old the np was all but banned by coaches (became a team rule). Jeans was a big one on this...and even the current Hawk teams rarely (apart from Mitchell) used or could kick well on the np.

The thinking was that if the team was functioning as it should then there should always be a teammate/s in support and you shouldn't run into trouble.

I would be interested in why Goodie is training up the np, maybe 'Sat' could ask Macca the reasoning behind it. I could almost guarantee it's not as simple as getting out of trouble.

Maybe the wheel has turned...

rjay I attended a coaching session with the Swans a couple of years ago and their kicking bio mechanics specialist spoke to us. He said their philosophy was that your preferred is your strongest and np is weaker. So not much point spending a lot of time improving what is always going to be a weaker option. They were spending their time concentrating on getting their preferred even better rather than waste time on the np.

Personally I can't understand this. If you're in a game and are covered so your only option is np why wouldnt' you work on developing it. The one knock I've heard on Hibberd was in 14/15 he was becoming less effective because the opposition had worked out he doesn't have a right foot and so were covering him so he had to use it and it made a big difference cutting down his effectiveness. 

It's interesting we have gone so much the opposite to this. 

[Buffalo 203]

From my experience coaching juniors, training on the non-preferred foot seems to automatically improve your kicking on the preferred side. Stuffed if I know why!

[Dees2014 2,377]

4 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Great reports from DS and Hell Bent, although the slight injury concerns aren't great.  We've seemingly had a pretty good run until now, so hopefully each injury is only something minor or a niggle and there is plenty of time to get over that through the Xmas break.

Still the Bulldogs have shown us all how to overcome these things - all power to them, as long as they dont beat us of course!

[alias275 259]

I quickly taught myself the NP kick when I was in lower grades, pushing for prem in under 18.

It may have made the difference in games I got, but who will ever know.

I just presumed then (being the mid 90's) that I'd never make it professionally unless I could kick both feet.

So that's why it still shocks me now, that so many players in the AFL system can only kick on one foot.

[Dees2014 2,377]

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

The highlight of the short bit of training I watched today was Petracca marking with a group of forwards. He'd take up front spot and a kick would come in and he'd go head to head with some of the other tall forwards, with the winner staying on. Tracc used his strength and athleticism to mark 3 in a row against Hulett, Watts and Weid (I think). There was a lot of cheering and hollering. Then he went against Gawn who had too much strength and reach and out marked him.

Garlett was too strong/clever for Ben Ken and JKH.

Max -he is a wonder!

[Dees2014 2,377]

3 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I totally agree,  but you see them arrive from junior ranks with no other foot   of the present group, the only players who look totally at ease are Hogan,  Jones, Vince, Salem

and Brayshaw

[jnrmac 20,053]

4 hours ago, DubDee said:

im still staggered that these elite juniors that come through cant kick on their NP.  what kind of junior coaches would they have they wouldn't include NP kicking at training? you want to be at the very least servicable on your NP

amateur stuff

Not uncommon. They usually have no defensive skills and many don't have a second 'side', particularly left footers....

[Satyriconhome 10,675]

16 minutes ago, Dees2014 said:

Max -he is a wonder!

There was a lady of a certain age today at training, who said she was preparing a calendar, and the only two she could convince to get the rig out were Max and Jack Watts   I was warned by Jack to put my camera away, didn't want the pic on Instagram

[Cards13 9,117]

8 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

ANB as you know has an issue with his knee in the past, got a hit on exactly the wrong spot, nothing major, that was from Ben Mathews

JKH did his finger

Jeff Garlett got a belt on the nose

Dean Kent tweaked his calf on the run at the beginning 

Jack Watts just a bit of tightening in the back, had it loosened up, from Jack

No Nev Jetta or Col Garland, Melksham, Wagner and Brayshaw on light duties

I finally got ask to Weed about his size, put on 4kg now at 94kg, they only want him to play at 95kg, matter of building a rig now, his words

First up today 6 min run, Tommy Mc (of course) Hogan then Bugg

For all the chit you cop, thanks for some of the inside info even if others thinks it's sugar coated "throw away" lines to supporters from the players and staff. Hopefully AnB knee is just that, would love to see him pushing the Bugg, Kennedy et al of the group for a spot.

[Cards13 9,117]

5 hours ago, SaberFang said:

Love Lewis rubbing his hands with glee at the end. So much to love about such a short video.

Rubbing his hands for rope burn? 

[SaberFang 7,151]

6 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Rubbing his hands for rope burn? 

He can rub his hands for whatever he wants if he plays like he did at Hawthorn!

[hemingway 7,615]

4 hours ago, alias275 said:

I quickly taught myself the NP kick when I was in lower grades, pushing for prem in under 18.

It may have made the difference in games I got, but who will ever know.

I just presumed then (being the mid 90's) that I'd never make it professionally unless I could kick both feet.

So that's why it still shocks me now, that so many players in the AFL system can only kick on one foot.

Agreed. Even as a kid back in the 60s, learning to kick both feet was regarded as important.  We all practised and tried, some more effectively than others but good coaches stressed how important it was. 

[Satyriconhome 10,675]

10 hours ago, Cards13 said:

For all the chit you cop, thanks for some of the inside info even if others thinks it's sugar coated "throw away" lines to supporters from the players and staff. Hopefully AnB knee is just that, would love to see him pushing the Bugg, Kennedy et al of the group for a spot.

If you let anonymous posters hiding behind keyboards get to you, you shouldn't post on public forums.

Thanks I ask the players and coaches questions I post some of the answers, I take pictures and post them, if people like them good, if not their choice

I thought I would ask Ben Mathews as he was right there when it occurred to ANB,  I posted his answer

Hopefully ANB will get a run at it

Same with Jeff Garlett, copped a whack to the schnoz   nothing serious   he was fine when I spoke to him, just wouldn't stop bleeding so they blocked and iced it, able to return

Poor old JKH can't take a trick

Edited December 14, 2016 by Satyriconhome

[Gorgoroth 12,911]

I think ANB has the makings of a decent mid, really hope he at least gets a good run at it.  JKH may have threw a black cat through a dozen mirrors whilst running under ladders.