6 hours ago, ProDee said:

Not withstanding being inhibited by all of the club's woes I reckon Grimes was also a victim of a changing game.

Early in his career he was rock solid across half-back where he was strong overhead, read the play well and played within his limitations.  One felt comfortable when he had the ball in hand and he was a reliable general. But as the game has evolved the back-line has become the generator for attack.  Speed and bold ball-movement by foot and hand has become the backman's weapon.  It doesn't suit Jack's slow and steady play.  Jack was dependable and reliable but struggled to adapt to a more attacking game.  As his comfort zone changed his foot skills and decision making were increasingly challenged and put under the microscope.  It never suited his game.

One of the few players I'll remember very fondly.

Yep, this absolutely nails it. Applies to Dunn & Garland too. They all play in the way that they used to as recently as 2014, but we've completely restructured the defence according to the above.

We saw a great example of it in the 3rd Q VFL GF, where these three won the ball in defence OK but were unable to do anything with it to relieve the pressure, either for tempo footy or to break out of the forward press by running it out or by precise disposal.

13 minutes ago, mo64 said:

What about Hogan? I would have thought that 8 of our best 22 remaining would be pretty standard turnover for clubs that don't make the finals over 3 years. I'd also argue that Roos thought the Garland was best 22 when he gave him a 3 year contract last year.

Hogan wasn't on the list as such in 2013 as he couldn't actually play for us.

Haven't split it to best 22 as I don't know their list well enough but the saints have retained 20 players from 2013, some of them great experienced heads.  

14 hours ago, rjay said:

He's not going to improve his disposal and decision making in the gym or on the roads...

well indirectly maybe.  Thru greater firmness levels, stamina & gut running, he maybe able to find a way to make more space, use the space to aid his kicking, get to more contests, & gather more telling possessions.

So this part will help his skills, being fitter & physically stronger.

The other part of it is experience in games, composure, & practicing his disposal skills until he drops.  Or gets dropped.

Edited September 28, 20168 yr by DV8

Only real surprise out of today's announcement is that Dawes wasn't included. Would have thought that he'd be one of the first cabs off the rank.

A couple of others as well ... Newton for example, hard to see how he has a future, so why delay the inevitable?

Of course, I could be wrong on both counts!

2 hours ago, bing181 said:

Only real surprise out of today's announcement is that Dawes wasn't included. Would have thought that he'd be one of the first cabs off the rank.

A couple of others as well ... Newton for example, hard to see how he has a future, so why delay the inevitable?

Of course, I could be wrong on both counts!

I think you're right, he can't get a game because he's either injured or not good enough, same with Michie, if it hasn't happened by now it isn't going to happen.

 

4 minutes ago, Dante said:

I think you're right, he can't get a game because he's either injured or not good enough, same with Michie, if it hasn't happened by now it isn't going to happen.

 

This is only the first lot cut. They normally announce them in a few batches. There is normally one between the trade period and draft as well so I would be very surprised if there weren't more changes to come. Especially as we must use 3 draft picks and with Hibberd coming we only have 2 spots on the list. 

A guy who works at Casey posts on bigfooty a fair bit just mentioned that Ben Newton and Max King have been delisted.

2 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

A guy who works at Casey posts on bigfooty a fair bit just mentioned that Ben Newton and Max King have been delisted.

I don't imagine that would come as a huge shock to anyone concerned. Wonder if they break up the delisting announcements so as to "honour" each delistee a bit more than doing all in one go?

The same guy just posted this..Forgot to mention that he's also a Doggies supporter.

Pedo one year
White stays on rookie
Viv stays on rookie
Joel smith upgraded 
Dawes likely staying but may change depending on trade period (as coverage for the lack of age on kpf)

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

The same guy just posted this..Forgot to mention that he's also a Doggies supporter.

Pedo one year
White stays on rookie
Viv stays on rookie
Joel smith upgraded 
Dawes likely staying but may change depending on trade period (as coverage for the lack of age on kpf)

Is this his inside source, or just a gut feeling?

Either way it's pretty close to what will probably happen, although I'll be surprised if Viv stays on as a rookie.  They may do it in case we get a plethora of injuries and have him as depth.

12 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

The same guy just posted this..Forgot to mention that he's also a Doggies supporter.

Pedo one year
White stays on rookie
Viv stays on rookie
Joel smith upgraded 
Dawes likely staying but may change depending on trade period (as coverage for the lack of age on kpf)

Does he mean Smith upgraded to senior list or to main rookie list?

Also, Michie... FML.

 

12 minutes ago, stuie said:

Does he mean Smith upgraded to senior list or to main rookie list?

Also, Michie... FML.

 

I'm a big wrap for Smith but wouldn't Wagner be more likely to play early next year than Smith? If I were to promote a back flanker it would be Wags although I'd rather just go in with extra rookies and the flexibility to promote when needed.

And yep. Michie would be staggering. I'd rather Newton because he's a lovely kick of the ball, if he could by some miracle find a tank he'd have something to offer. Surely we wouldn't ever try Michie as a backman again so what role would he play next? Back to the midfield/forward spot where he never touches it at AFL level? Are we going to a bulldogs based rotation system where 8-10 guys rapidly rotate between wings/mid and forward, that could help him (maybe).

Another year of Dawes/Pedersen seems counter productive as well. Roll the dice with 1 guy from the state leagues or delistings. Yeah it's a small chance of finding a player but you don't exactly lose much either. 

Smith would be a big upgrade. It does look like he is progressing really nicely and should play some senior footy next season if he continues on the same trajectory.

No surprises with King and Newton, but I'd be shocked if we kept Michie after delisting M Jones.

45 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Is this his inside source, or just a gut feeling?

Either way it's pretty close to what will probably happen, although I'll be surprised if Viv stays on as a rookie.  They may do it in case we get a plethora of injuries and have him as depth.

Well he's a game day official for the scorps and attended the BnF last night so I can assume he knows a bit or heard something last night.

38 minutes ago, stuie said:

Does he mean Smith upgraded to senior list or to main rookie list?

Also, Michie... FML.

 

Not sure how this system works to be honest.

3 minutes ago, Luther said:

Smith would be a big upgrade. It does look like he is progressing really nicely and should play some senior footy next season if he continues on the same trajectory.

No surprises with King and Newton, but I'd be shocked if we kept Michie after delisting M Jones.

His second half of the year certainly showed that he is improving.  Another pre-season and a run in the NAB Cup would do him good.  I would think he is well down the pecking order at the moment, and senior footy next year would be a stretch, but he is showing some potential that he could turn out to be a handy player down the track.

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Well he's a game day official for the scorps and attended the BnF last night so I can assume he knows a bit or heard something last night.

Not sure how this system works to be honest.

Cheers, mate!  Pretty good sauce that!

41 minutes ago, stuie said:

Does he mean Smith upgraded to senior list or to main rookie list?

Also, Michie... FML.

The rules around the different rookie categories are the same: 1 or 2 or 3 years on the rookie list then either promoted to main list or delisted.  A player can't move from one rookie category to another.

Wondering if the bigfooty guy being quoted as the source meant Wagner is staying rather than Mitchie?  Goodwin said recently that when Melksham comes in he will probably spend time on the wing as Wagner and Hunt have done so well this year.  So would expect Wagner to stay either as a rookie again or promoted to the main list. 

   

1 minute ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The rules around the different rookie categories are the same: 1 or 2 or 3 years on the rookie list then either promoted to main list or delisted.  A player can't move from one rookie category to another.

Wondering if the bigfooty guy being quoted as the source meant Wagner is staying rather than Mitchie?  Goodwin said recently that when Melksham comes in he will probably spend time on the wing as Wagner and Hunt have done so well this year.  So would expect Wagner to stay either as a rookie again or promoted to the main list. 

   

Cheers Lucy!

 

Interesting if around the mark.

I thought they'd keep one of Michie or Newton for midfield depth. It's probably easier to retain Viv than delist Newton and go through the rookie draft. Viv is also a bit more versatile. Samael will be happy.

I suspect Dawes will be up in the air until Trade Week unfolds.

Best news will be the upgrading of Smith if it happens 

13 hours ago, Roger Mellie said:

Interesting if around the mark.

I thought they'd keep one of Michie or Newton for midfield depth. It's probably easier to retain Viv than delist Newton and go through the rookie draft. Viv is also a bit more versatile. Samael will be happy.

Agree we want to keep some midfield depth.  M.Jones, Newton and Michie - each has his own limitations.  Keep the rookie and open 2 senior spots.

On 25/09/2016 at 6:29 PM, Clint Bizkit said:

ANB looked classy at times last year, this year he's looked unskillful and messy.

Second year blues?  Worth at least one more IMO.  

Sadly, it looks like there is not much interest in Jack Grimes at this stage.  http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-06/shattered-grimes-not-giving-up-afl-career-yet

Its interesting that Jack made these comments: "I know that if I get the opportunity, I am the sort of person who will have a 100 per cent crack and put absolutely everything into it." and "I still do feel, moving forward, that I have a bit to offer. I feel confident in my own game and ability and know I have a lot of improvement left in me."  

I'm not sure he realises that effort isn't enough; skills count, playing the team game counts and most clubs will put their development resources into a youngster rather than improving a 27 yo. Hope his manager gives him another narrative and promotes him properly to other clubs.  

Despite being fairly shattered there is no hint of criticism of the club.  Integrity plus, Jack.

Edited October 6, 20168 yr by Lucifer's Hero

7 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Sadly, it looks like there is not much interest in Jack Grimes at this stage.  http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-06/shattered-grimes-not-giving-up-afl-career-yet

Its interesting that Jack made these comments: "I know that if I get the opportunity, I am the sort of person who will have a 100 per cent crack and put absolutely everything into it." and "I still do feel, moving forward, that I have a bit to offer. I feel confident in my own game and ability and know I have a lot of improvement left in me."  

I'm not sure he realises that effort isn't enough; skills count, playing the team game counts and most clubs will put their development resources into a youngster rather than improving a 27 yo. Hope his manager gives him another narrative and promotes him properly to other clubs.  

Despite being fairly shattered there is no hint of criticism of the club.  Integrity plus, Jack.

I don't think there is a nicer, more genuine and more giving person than Jack. His passion for the Club and his role was obvious to anyone who met him. I admired him for the way he played his role at Casey. He showed maturity beyond his years and as LH has said "integrity plus"

If he does get picked up by another Club he will play with as much heart as he did whilst at Melbourne. However if he doesn't get to another Club, I  am sure that he will succeed in anything that he takes on.

I hope that there will be some role for him at the Club at a later time.  

Placing Michie on the rookie list again is a waste of time. The club should take a leap of faith by placing Joel Smith on the senior list. White also should be given a go. Dawes too much of a dinosaur,needs to be let go. Hopefully Spencer could find a new home,he has reached his use by date. Newton and M.King your'e fired.

On 8/8/2016 at 7:16 PM, dazzledavey36 said:

And it was necessary was it? You have already admitted on he you go out your own way to bait others just to get a reaction.

Do that out in the public eye and would get your head caved in old man.

There was no need for it and you dam well know that. 

Here you go @dazzledavey36