Should we play a 2nd ruck?

[Trisul 636]

Is Jake in a position similar to where Max was at the very start of last season?  Building from injury, lacking a pre-season, but determined to make something of his best attributes and improve everywhere else.  I don't think Jake will play more than a couple of games in the heat of this year (maybe some at the tail) and believe they'll be as first ruck while we manage Max.   So perhaps this thread is a bit premature in relation to his ability to play the role now, but I do see him making his case very strongly for it next year if he gets through the entire pre-season.  Wouldn't be surprised at all if he gets the $50 (or $100 can't remember) 'most improved/determined/outstanding/etc' award at the post season camp.  It's make or break in 2017 for him.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

As I have said in other posts.

Max can not be expected to do it on his own.

Pencil is required especially against teams that have a couple of reasonable rucks.

St. Kilda showed us what can happen. 

The doggies also showed us what can happen.

admittedly we didn't have pencil on the park to help him out.

I would like to think Gawny would dominate this week with one hand tied behind his back.

But he following week we play PA in Alice.

Why not give Jake a Guernsey for that game. We must try the setup to see if can work.

[rjay 23,901]

26 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

As I have said in other posts.

Max can not be expected to do it on his own.

Pencil is required especially against teams that have a couple of reasonable rucks.

St. Kilda showed us what can happen. 

The doggies also showed us what can happen.

admittedly we didn't have pencil on the park to help him out.

I would like to think Gawny would dominate this week with one hand tied behind his back.

But he following week we play PA in Alice.

Why not give Jake a Guernsey for that game. We must try the setup to see if can work.

Port have no reasonable rucks so I sure hope we don't try your experiment against them...

[monoccular 16,062]

Well Jake has only had a couple of games this year - when he gets a few more under his belt then maybe, especially if he does a bit of marking and scoring at Casey. 

[PaulRB 5,920]

With Kent and Gartlett plus mids streaming forward Betty only needs to bring ball to ground if he can't mark it, when resting forward. He and Max in full aggro mode in ruck with our emerging mid is a serious advantage.

[solly21 91]

Not While Paul Roos is still coaching. He doesn't seem to like playing 2 ruckman. We played Gawn & Spencer against Geelong in Geelong last year & it worked really well then the next week we played West Coast in Darwin & he kept Spencer & Gawn in & he also brought Dawes back into the team & we were to top heavy we Had Hogan, Dawes, Gawn & Spencer & that was not the right move in Darwin & the next week he dropped Spencer & he didn't play him for the rest of the year so I can't see Paul Roos playing 2 Ruckman. I prefer 2 Ruckman as Gawn is going to get tired shortly rucking on his own. Which may have contributed to last weeks performance I guess will never no.

[Whispering_Jack 27,965]

I would be interested to find out whether any stats have been kept on how Melbourne fares when Max is playing on the ball compared to when he's being rested.

The feeling I get (and it has yet to be proven by available data) is that we have done significantly better when he's been on the ball and that many of our lapses in games have come when he has been off the ball.

If that's in fact the case then it might be worth trying another genuine ruckman to play that role - and at the only player we have to fit that bill is Spencer. 

[beelzebub 22,225]

Jack, my observation is that we're  far less effective when Max is off the ball, or off the boil.

[rjay 23,901]

8 hours ago, solly21 said:

Not While Paul Roos is still coaching. He doesn't seem to like playing 2 ruckman. We played Gawn & Spencer against Geelong in Geelong last year & it worked really well then the next week we played West Coast in Darwin & he kept Spencer & Gawn in & he also brought Dawes back into the team & we were to top heavy we Had Hogan, Dawes, Gawn & Spencer & that was not the right move in Darwin & the next week he dropped Spencer & he didn't play him for the rest of the year so I can't see Paul Roos playing 2 Ruckman. I prefer 2 Ruckman as Gawn is going to get tired shortly rucking on his own. Which may have contributed to last weeks performance I guess will never no.

Dawes was playing in the Geelong game...you've really answered the question of why we don't do it. In the Darwin game we added Hogan and we were too top heavy for wherever we were playing, not just Darwin. 

So if you want to play the 2nd ruck then one of the tall forwards needs to go or we will be too top heavy. Personally I don't think either of the rucks will work as a KPF...

[ManDee 7,077]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

Dawes was playing in the Geelong game...you've really answered the question of why we don't do it. In the Darwin game we added Hogan and we were too top heavy for wherever we were playing, not just Darwin. 

So if you want to play the 2nd ruck then one of the tall forwards needs to go or we will be too top heavy. Personally I don't think either of the rucks will work as a KPF...

Yes. Spencer and Max play.  Pedersen (Dawes - Frost) out. Spence offers much more in the ruck, is more aggressive around the ball and as a deep forward must be manned up, allows Hogan to play CHF. Its not like Pedereson-Frost  have been on fire as a KPF. Gawn has 7 goals Frost 4 Pedersen 5.  Hitouts last year Spencer 24.7 per game average Dawes 3.1 Pedersen 3.3 -- Goals last year Spencer .4 per game average Dawes .8 Pedersen .9

 

Edit: Stats from Geelong game last year, Gawn & Spencer

     Round 12  21st Jun  Geelong       

Spencer                                                       

K	HB	D	M	G	B	T	HO	GA	I50	FF	FA

    3            3               6         3           1         0       3            25                  0                      0                   0                  0 

Gawn

    10          9              19         8           1        1        5            44                 1                      5                   2                  2

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by ManDee