Fox Footy Roundtable - Melbourne

[Skuit 10,031]

I'm not sure how you can take someone called Blake Acres seriously.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,296]

On 3/19/2016 at 9:53 AM, Baghdad Bob said:

I think you're misinterpreting King's comments.  I don't think he's saying that Goodwin is the sole creator of the offensive game plan but he's saying that he is the communicator of it.  And the players are responding to his message.  Personally I think it is necessary for the players to get a consistent message because we all know that different teachers teaching the same theory can have different results.  Goodwin's teaching is working, why change it?

My view is that if Roos does become the main communicator to the group he by his very nature will change the message.  He is primarily a defensive coach, that is not the GP anymore.  Roos has many strengths and has been fantastic for this club but I think he should let Goodwin continue with game day and training.

I don't understand the hate of King.  Personally I find him challenging.  He doesn't always present the popular view and he has been critical of MFC which seems to consign you to the dustbin here regardless of the merit of his comments.

 

King delves into some of the Champion Data stats and tries to analyse the game more than most so for that I'll give him credit - but his analysis is quite rudimentary and if most of us had access to the same stats he did we'd be able to provide far more comprehensive analysis.

[binman 43,762]

Given the recent discussion in this thread, and in particular the suggestion by King that Goodwin should take the reigns from Roos, the timing of this article was coincidental. 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/paul-roos-sets-the-record-straight-on-whos-coaching-melbourne/news-story/2c3a157c1214896d427d29f660dcafb9

I couldn't get past the pay wall but it is in the hard copy today. Roos pretty much addresses all the points raised in this thread. This quote caught my attention:

'Roos says the Goodwin as messiah groundswell is simplistic. Not only does it not give credit to the coaching team, it ignores two years of hard work building a game plan big on aggression and quick ball movement'

Edited March 21, 2016 by binman

[daisycutter 29,738]

*reins*

[binman 43,762]

12 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

*reins*

Yes, good point. Apologies. I must of confused myself by mentioning a King.

[DeeSpencer 26,081]

18 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

*reins*

Both. King Goodwin sounds nice to me.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,296]

22 hours ago, SaberFang said:

Pretty fair assessment. I think it'll take until next year to play finals as well. The team needs a solid season together to build cohesion as a unit. Petracca hasn't even played a game.

My expectation for this year is 10 wins and % above 90, so will miss out on finals but only just. Anything less than that and I think they've underachieved, all things considered.

[DeeSpencer 26,081]

27 minutes ago, binman said:

Given the recent discussion in this thread, and in particular the suggestion by King that Goodwin should take the reigns from Roos, the timing of this article was coincidental. 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/paul-roos-sets-the-record-straight-on-whos-coaching-melbourne/news-story/2c3a157c1214896d427d29f660dcafb9

I couldn't get past the pay wall but it is in the hard copy today. Roos pretty much addresses all the points raised in this thread. This quote caught my attention:

'Roos says the Goodwin as messiah groundswell is simplistic. Not only does it not give credit to the coaching team, it ignores two years of hard work building a game planbig on aggression and quick ball movement'

Coincidental? Not at all. It's how News have cleverly diversified their business. A fox commentator will say something, a HS print journo will follow it up. I mean the Roos PR piece was probably planned ahead of time, but the questioning is set up. 

Roos' whole mantra is team based. He'll be keen this year to spread credit to Macca, Rawlings, Matthews and himself as well as Goodwin. He needs those other coaches on board to stay with Goodwin to help him out, and he doesn't want Goodwin getting overexposed now. It's the same thing he says about our young players, but with regard to coaches. Team work, high standards, continuity etc. 

[binman 43,762]

9 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Coincidental? Not at all. It's how News have cleverly diversified their business. A fox commentator will say something, a HS print journo will follow it up. I mean the Roos PR piece was probably planned ahead of time, but the questioning is set up. 

 

Yep, fair call. I meant more coincidental that we were talking about it on Demonland, not that the Roos interview followed Kings comments (thought of course we were talking about because of King).

[Slartibartfast 17,625]

I like the way he has given credit to the whole coaching team, exactly the right thing to do.

From reports Goodwin took training too, I like that.  Now we just need to beat GWS.

[Sideshow Bob 2,410]

57 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

I like the way he has given credit to the whole coaching team, exactly the right thing to do.

From reports Goodwin took training too, I like that.  Now we just need to beat GWS.

Hey Bob, sorry if what I wrote the other didn't quite come across quite right. But this is exactly what I was alluding to. And the article from Jay perfectly sums it up from my end. So I don't think I was all that wide of the mark 

Edited March 21, 2016 by jako13

[H_T 3,049]

I think collectively, things are working well and will continue to work well this season. They are collectively coaching as one unit. Let's not over analyse everything over NAB challenge.

The implementation of coaching methods since 2 years ago has been gradual. A step-by-step process. Addressing defending, gradual offensive nature last year to improve our scoring by 2 goals on average. Now another process of improving scoring, yet remaining instinctively active defensively when required but with an immediate offensive outcome and improved effectiveness in and around stoppages to get it to the outside quickly. 

Let us continue to enjoy the fruits of progress and not get caught up in the hoopla that can brings confidence undone. 

[Delusional demon 82 1,197]

Goodwin Roos handover discussed again by King in detail tonight On the Couch.  Some intresting stats coming out of nab challenge for us on defensive transition and forward pressure.  

Regardless of your views on these opinions we're getting a lot more press this year ...good signs 

[Pates 9,660]

I find it interesting that a lot of people are pigeonholing Roos as a defence only coach. Roos is a thinker, he'll recognise what needs to be done to win, he'll also recognise that Goodwin is going to be taking over this team at the end of the year. This idea that Roos is simply the top dog is just silly, they will be working in partnership for the future of the team. As the year progresses I'm sure Goodwin will be taking more of the responsibility.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Pates

[Earl Hood 6,101]

8 minutes ago, Delusional demon 82 said:

Goodwin Roos handover discussed again by King in detail tonight On the Couch.  Some intresting stats coming out of nab challenge for us on defensive transition and forward pressure.  

Regardless of your views on these opinions we're getting a lot more press this year ...good signs 

I am copping a few SMS from opposition supporter friends saying we are the next premiers, cough, cough, joke, joke!  What were they   saying? 

[P-man 13,366]

8 minutes ago, Delusional demon 82 said:

Goodwin Roos handover discussed again by King in detail tonight On the Couch.  Some intresting stats coming out of nab challenge for us on defensive transition and forward pressure.  

Regardless of your views on these opinions we're getting a lot more press this year ...good signs 

The vision from behind the goal showing the spacial defending was also interesting. As a collective the team no longer look scared to take the game on.

The real test is of course still to come in the proper stuff, particularly against the very good sides.

[P-man 13,366]

2 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

I am copping a few SMS from opposition supporter friends saying we are the next premiers, cough, cough, joke, joke!  What were they   saying? 

The main thing highlighted was the change in some league rankings.

Defensive transition: 14th in 2015 to 2nd in NAB Challenge

Creating turnovers in forward half: 15th in 2015 to 3rd in NAB Challenge

Gone from one on one to a more modern zone defence, with willingness to leave the man and take intercept marks. More aggressive in regaining possession and moving the ball quickly.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

I think Goodwin is pulling the strings, Roosy will just cop the heat if things go south, not a bad person to have incase things don't play out right away

[binman 43,762]

13 hours ago, Pates said:

I find it interesting that a lot of people are pigeonholing Roos as a defence only coach. Roos is a thinker, he'll recognise what needs to be done to win, he'll also recognise the Goodwin is going to be taking over this team at the end of the year. This idea that Roos is simply the top dog is just silly, they will be working in partnership for the future of the team. As the year progresses I'm sure Goodwin will taking more of the responsibility.

Totally agree on all points. For me it just reinforces how simplistic the views of so many footy commentators are. Hutchy rabbited on about the Roos defense mantra last night on FC, basically saying it was not possible for him to adapt.  

Roos had a strategy (ugly football as Demitriou famously called it) that as about maximizing the chances of winning a grand final. He won one and nearly won another. It was a strategy in a time and place and other clubs used a variation of it.

It is an insult to Roos to suggest he is not capable of adapting his approach. As you say Roos is a thinker, he'll recognise what needs to be done to win. In fact this exactly what he has done. He recognised the need for us to score more but was also aware the dees first needed to stop leaking goals. Winning is his priority not defense.

Interestingly in the HUN article yesterday Roos made the point that all the MFC coaches had aggression at the ball carrier and strong defense as cornerstones of their coaching philosophies.  Attcak built on defense. In essence he was saying they were all on the same page.

[rjay 25,088]

53 minutes ago, binman said:

Totally agree on all points. For me it just reinforces how simplistic the views of so many footy commentators are. Hutchy rabbited on about the Roos defense mantra last night on FC, basically saying it was not possible for him to adapt.  

 

That show just gets worse by the season. Excuse me if I'm wrong, didn't see it but surely a show on football has to have someone with real footy knowledge on it.

3 journo's and a dimwit. It could be debated who the dimwit really is but you get my drift.

...and all 3 of the journo's specialise in the off ground component of the game, in other words politics.

Edited March 22, 2016 by rjay

[Adam The God 30,407]

Slightly random tangent, but wasn't sure where to ask it.

Does anyone think we'll lose by 10 or more goals this year at any stage? Or do we have similar expectations on this to win count? I've said since last year that we'll win between 10-12 games. I think we will and that is also the expectation I would have. Nothing less than 10 wins. 

So what does it say about the team if they cop a 10 or more goal loss?

Edited March 22, 2016 by AdamFarr

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

9 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

Slightly random tangent, but wasn't sure where to ask it.

Does anyone think we'll lose by 10 or more goals this year at any stage? Or do we have similar expectations on this to win count? I've said since last year that we'll win between 10-12 games. I think we will and that is also the expectation I would have. Nothing less than 10 wins. 

So what does it say about the team if they cop a 10 or more goal loss?

I think our new ball movement does expose us to the risk of being a little more scored against, i think if our skills are as they have been in the NAB cup, one of the better sides may get hold of us in a bad way, i don't expect any 100 point smashings though

[Adam The God 30,407]

9 minutes ago, Peter Griffen said:

I think our new ball movement does expose us to the risk of being a little more scored against, i think if our skills are as they have been in the NAB cup, one of the better sides may get hold of us in a bad way, i don't expect any 100 point smashings though

Yeah, I guess that's what I'm asking. Do we think there'll be the typical 100 point flogging at the hands of Hawthorn.?  I'd also add to your post, mate, that it will be interesting to see how our guys react (particularly the younger guys) to being broken down as a result of poor skill and decision making. Will they go into their shells or continue to show a belief in the systems that have been set up? This may very heavily come down to how well we start the season. That might sound strange or simplistic, but confidence is a great thing and if the players can see the systems at play working in the season proper, they're more likely to believe in them when times get tough, as they will invariably do at some point during the season.

Edited March 22, 2016 by AdamFarr

[DeeSpencer 26,081]

3 sides with win totals that we are after this year, last year: 

GWS - 11 wins - lost to West Coast by 87 points (and beat Hawthorn the next week)

Coll - 10 wins - lost to Richmond by 91 points

Port - 12 wins - lost to the Dogs by 64 points

Every chance we have at least one if not more really bad games. It could come as early as this week against a red hot GWS whilst we just don't adapt to the increased pressure of the regular season. We've been poor in the first half against Port, the first quarter v Saints and the entire game against the Dogs. Holding our nerve in the first quarter when pressure is highest will be vital.

I'd settle for a 1 point QT lead right now if you offered it to me because it means we are in the game against the Giants and we can build from there. 

I think we've got enough skill and experience to be in the game every week and if we are being out classed and the margin blows out late I can understand that. I'd be really annoyed if we just aren't in the contest though. Which means both in terms of physicality at the contest and the mental and physical strength to apply our game style. 

Time will tell with other sides but based on last year Hawthorn and West Coast were the only sides with scoring power, ball movement and enough grunt to legitimately blow sides away. More than 1 very bad day against any other side would be very sad. 

[Pates 9,660]

2 hours ago, rjay said:

That show just gets worse by the season. Excuse me if I'm wrong, didn't see it but surely a show on football has to have someone with real footy knowledge on it.

3 journo's and a dimwit. It could be debated who the dimwit really is but you get my drift.

...and all 3 of the journo's specialise in the off ground component of the game, in other words politics.

I think that was what Gaz was there for unfortunately. He's wasn't bad at dissecting the game but now he's gone it feels like it's going to be the E! News of footy.