14 minutes ago, Chris said:

Would prefer it was Daisy!

i'd prefer tayla harris, better genetic match for height

viney can have daisy

Edited March 15, 20169 yr by daisycutter

Regardless of what anybody thinks of what the Ox said. He is right. We have all commented on the fact that kicking is the one weakness that Hogan has. 

I just hope that he is spending time analyzing this with coaches. 

To me he needs to find a rythm as he runs in, a rythm that at this stage is all over the place. 

Fluid movement from the moment he walks in to when his foot has connected and followed through...

Work on it daily Jesse. Rythm is the key. 

1 hour ago, pineapple dee said:

To panic is my default position. Anything good that happens afterwards is a bonus.

So you're perfectly normal then?

3 minutes ago, Deeoldfart said:

So you're perfectly normal then?

Apart from suffering kenophobia and arachnaphobia, yes.

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

i still reckon he needs to work hard on his set piece kicking action. he improved it last year, but he can't afford to let it slip

there's no need to panic obviously, but it simply needs work and should be fixable

i expect he needs to work on it for his whole career, nothing unusual in that, barry cable one of the best ever exponents of handball would come into to the rooms after training and spend half an hour practising on the handball target board. practice, practice makes perfect.

the ox might have been overly hyperbolic but he was on the money

I think we need to be realistic about this. The kid is only early 20s, played 20 odd games, and attracts media attention which only the AFL elite get. It is a lot of pressure for a young guy, and he seems to be handling it admirably. 

The Club also should be commended in this. They say they want him to concentrate on being a better footballer, and that after all is where it should be at. From his news conference, I would say he is being well advised as to how to handle the media, and has sense enough to follow it, unlike Tom Scully. 

Hogan seems like a quality kid. Let's all get behind him, win more than we lose this year, and make the club so exciting and admired, he won't want to leave. 

Comments from ex players like the Ox do not help this. He should know better, but unfortunately it is reality in the hothouse world of AFL journalism. JH will just have to learn to live with it, which he seems to be doing very well.

So nice to have a professionally run, smart club for a change. The contrast with the Neeld era could not be greater. 

 

 

 

 

The ox could give advice on punting.

" - don't gamble your match fee before the game has even started Jesse."

2 minutes ago, Dees2014 said:

I think we need to be realistic about this. The kid is only early 20s, played 20 odd games, and attracts media attention which only the AFL elite get. It is a lot of pressure for a young guy, and he seems to be handling it admirably. 

The Club also should be commended in this. They say they want him to concentrate on being a better footballer, and that after all is where it should be at. From his news conference, I would say he is being well advised as to how to handle the media, and has sense enough to follow it, unlike Tom Scully. 

Hogan seems like a quality kid. Let's all get behind him, win more than we lose this year, and make the club so exciting and admired, he won't want to leave. 

Comments from ex players like the Ox do not help this. He should know better, but unfortunately it is reality in the hothouse world of AFL journalism. JH will just have to learn to live with it, which he seems to be doing very well.

So nice to have a professionally run, smart club for a change. The contrast with the Neeld era could not be greater. 

 

don't have much disagreement with this d2014, but i'm not sure why you quoted my post

The comment on getting Fev down to teach him goal kicking was interesting...

Fev was a great kick for goal.

8 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

don't have much disagreement with this d2014, but i'm not sure why you quoted my post

Well I was mostly agreeing with you, except perhaps your comment that the Ox was mostly on the money. I think his comments were at best unhelpful, at worst mischievous. I tend to agree with OD - media driven for headlines. I don't think that can be described as "on the money"

Edited March 16, 20169 yr by Dees2014

20 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Regardless of what anybody thinks of what the Ox said. He is right. We have all commented on the fact that kicking is the one weakness that Hogan has. 

I just hope that he is spending time analyzing this with coaches. 

To me he needs to find a rythm as he runs in, a rythm that at this stage is all over the place. 

Fluid movement from the moment he walks in to when his foot has connected and followed through...

Work on it daily Jesse. Rythm is the key. 

I don't get this.

Please tell me why his kicking is a weakness ?

If you suggest that his kicking from distance is a problem, then yes. He appears to not be able to kick a goal from 50 metres plus. But a If you are suggesting his kicking at goal from inside 50 is a weakness happy to be provided with any statistical proof of this.

2 minutes ago, Dees2014 said:

Well I was mostly agreeing with you, except perhaps your comment that the Ox was mostly on the money. I think his comments were at best unhelpful, at worst mischievous. I tend to agree with OD - media driven for headlines. I don't think that can be described as "on the money"

i did say the ox was "overly hyperbolic". i said he was on the money in reference to his need to work on his set piece kicking

the ox could/should have worded it better (and more supportively) but the underlying message was reasonable

2 minutes ago, nutbean said:

I don't get this.

Please tell me why his kicking is a weakness ?

If you suggest that his kicking from distance is a problem, then yes. He appears to not be able to kick a goal from 50 metres plus. But a If you are suggesting his kicking at goal from inside 50 is a weakness happy to be provided with any statistical proof of this.

You answered your own question Nut

His kicking for goal within 50 metres could be even accurate if he can nail a rythm

His run up and ball drop are all over the place.

Nothing wrong with improvement and repetition practice

Could well be the difference between kicking 4-5 goals and 9-10 in games.

18 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

The comment on getting Fev down to teach him goal kicking was interesting...

Fev was a great kick for goal.

Pretty sure Jono Brown and Jesse have caught up a few times in a mentor capacity so maybe he could help, not always the best kick but had a really strong run up/action

13 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You answered your own question Nut

His kicking for goal within 50 metres could be even accurate if he can nail a rythm

His run up and ball drop are all over the place.

Nothing wrong with improvement and repetition practice

Could well be the difference between kicking 4-5 goals and 9-10 in games.

I haven't answered my own question at all.

He can't kick over 50  - noted.

But even more accurate within 50 ??? He is going at 69%  - always room for improvement  - but a weakness ? If it is a weakness then Hudson, Lockett and Dunstall all had kicking weaknesses as did Luke Bruest last season as none went at 69% !

The stats don't lie - as to the difference to kicking 4-5 and 9-10 - has there been lots of games where he has been terribly inaccurate and cost himself goals ? Again jumping at shadows.

To me it is putting the cart before the horse. Would a more fluid approach allow him to kick further ? Probably yes , but kicking goals from outside 50 is a bonus and not too many have made a career out of it ( although i did prefer Neita from 50 plus).

So would a change to his action be more beneficial - probably  - but nothing supports the argument that his kicking is a weakness let alone a disgrace. ( I 100% agree that his action LOOKS disgraceful) 

Edited March 16, 20169 yr by nutbean

 

2 hours ago, Scythe said:

From Neroli Meadows' Twitter: "His accuracy was about 58% and mine's 69%, so I don't think I'll be going to him for advice," Jesse Hogan says about David Schwarz.

Sensational. 

 

2 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I love the confidence, but it saddens me that Hogan doesn't seem to appreciate how good Schwarz was.

Agreed CB.  I would prefer that Jesse said something like:  'Ox is a great of the MFC and I respect his opinion.   I had a bad day and will continue to work on being a better footballer'. 

Dignity all round.

I hope mfc didn't advise him on response to the Ox - generally best to play with a straight bat than stir the pot.

 

5 minutes ago, nutbean said:

I haven't answered my own question at all.

He can't kick over 50  - noted.

But even more accurate within 50 ??? He is going at 69%  - always room for improvement  - but a weakness ? If it is a weakness then Hudson, Lockett and Dunstall all had kicking weaknesses as did Luke Bruest last season as none went at 69% !

The stats don't lie - as to the difference to kicking 4-5 and 9-10 - has there been lots of games where he has been terribly inaccurate and cost himself goals ? Again jumping at shadows.

To me it is putting the cart before the horse. Would a more fluid approach allow him to kick further ? Probably yes , but kicking goals from outside 50 is a bonus and not too many have made a career out of it ( although i did prefer Neita from 50 plus).

So would a change to his action be more beneficial - probably  - but nothing supports the argument that his kicking is a weakness let alone a disgrace. ( I 100% agree that his action LOOKS disgraceful) 

Nut his action needs work. His natural ability has got him to where he is

let's take it further. Put his accuracy into the 70%'s absolutely no doubt he can do it. 

Just now, nutbean said:

I haven't answered my own question at all.

He can't kick over 50  - noted.

But even more accurate within 50 ??? He is going at 69%  - always room for improvement  - but a weakness ? If it is a weakness then Hudson, Lockett and Dunstall all had kicking weaknesses as did Luke Bruest last season as none went at 69% !

The stats don't lie - as to the difference to kicking 4-5 and 9-10 - has there been lots of games where he has been terribly inaccurate and cost himself goals ? Again jumping at shadows.

To me it is putting the cart before the horse. Would a more fluid approach allow him to kick further ? Probably yes , but kicking goals from outside 50 is a bonus and not too many have made a career out of it ( although i did prefer Neita from 50 plus).

So would a change to his action be more beneficial - probably  - but nothing supports the argument that his kicking is a weakness let alone a disgrace. ( I 100% agree that it LOOKS disgraceful) 

nut, your whole argument is based on just one year's past history

if his set piece routine deteriorates even a little (as it did last week) then he is in trouble. no-one is criticising his accuracy % last year, just that he is on a knife's edge re technique and it's a major issue he needs to work on. his technique, even last year is stopping him kicking more goals from longer distances. the point is he CAN kick goals from outside 45m when he is not doing a set piece. when he kicks in general play his technique is more natural and instictive and he can definitely kick long. even you must be able to see there is room for improvement

Be interesting to see a deeper analysis of where and how he's kicked his goals from, i.e. 0-20 metres out, 20-40 metres out, 40-60 metres out? On the run or set shot? Etc

My feel is he's solid on the run 40+ metres out but struggles on his set shot 40+... but I'd just a guess. 

I once had the same problem with my kicking. I had a coach who taught me to imagine that I had picked the ball up on the run and run at the player on the mark and shoot at goal as if it was a 'play on' situation. It dramatically improved my goal kicking and I was a better player because of it. 

1 hour ago, Scythe said:

"I think any young player playing forward of the midfield we have got at the moment would be pretty silly to want to leave," Hogan said.

Is this a clue as to what is really required for him to re sign? 

So far everyone assumes 'Melbourne performing well', for Jesse to re sign, means winning more games this year.  I'm sure that is relevant.  But 2016 is but one year.  Maybe Jesse is more interested in the medium/long term ability of our mid-field to do their job so that he can do his job.  Seems a reasonable criteria to me and more important than the number of wins in 2016.  After all this is a development year for him and others

1 minute ago, daisycutter said:

nut, your whole argument is based on just one year's past history

if his set piece routine deteriorates even a little (as it did last week) then he is in trouble. no-one is criticising his accuracy % last year, just that he is on a knife's edge re technique and it's a major issue he needs to work on. his technique, even last year is stopping him kicking more goals from longer distances. the point is he CAN kick goals from outside 45m when he is not doing a set piece. when he kicks in general play his technique is more natural and instictive and he can definitely kick long. even you must be able to see there is room for improvement

One year is all I have to work with !

Last week he had one horrible shank and one miss from a 45 degree angle that didn't miss by all that much.

I absolutely agree his action needs to be improved to get more length in his kicks and if he looks prettier kicking goals from inside 50 then so be it - but if he finishes his career just under 70% efficiency then that is fine by me. Of course there is always room for improvement.

To me a slightly bigger issue is managing his frustration when he does have an off day - he was butter fingers last week ( and I am sure that was a "rusty day") but on at least a couple of occasions when he dropped a sitter he was a little busy chastising himself instead of going immediately with a second effort. Not a major issue but I did notice it as did Dunstall.

He should of taken that famous line from the NFL player..

"I'm just here so I won't get fined.." Hogan

11 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Be interesting to see a deeper analysis of where and how he's kicked his goals from, i.e. 0-20 metres out, 20-40 metres out, 40-60 metres out? On the run or set shot? Etc

My feel is he's solid on the run 40+ metres out but struggles on his set shot 40+... but I'd just a guess. 

To shot my argument down a little and explain why his conversion rate is good, I also notice that he doesn't lead to take a lot of his marks at an angle of greater than  45%  which makes shots at goal easier and is exactly what you want ( if you can do it ).

You are right that he doesn't take too many set shots from 40 plus.

2 hours ago, old dee said:

Re Ox and his comments on SEN.

Lets all remember that Ox is paid by SEN to get listeners and rating and keep his job.

Yes he is a MFC x player and loyalist.

However he knows who is paying the bills and it ain't the MFC.

I would be doing the exact same things he is doing and  in a number of them I agree with him.

Do it about another club. How many times does Tim Watson make calls about Essendon like that, Dunstall/Brereton about Hawthorn, Eddie about the Pies? Deflect to the other clubs don't put your old club in the [censored].

On the website now.  Procedural..