On 10/02/2016 at 02:15, dazzledavey36 said:

Spot on..

And i am not once condoning the tough competitiveness at training i think its fantastic. But like Jones said we don't need to be going extreme to the point where you injure your own team and he has to pay the price for someone else's stupidity.

As ET said.. he has a long way to be considered even the captain. Brayshaw is my pick aswell.

the Jones boy entered this club in its heydays of 'soft'...   whilst he hasn't adopted it himself individually,  he hasn't experienced the cultures of say the Hawks back in 2006, or the Cats, the Bummers back then.

 

....  so his experience Re this,  & its advantages,  are limited to his Mfc experiences,  & he learnt & survived just,  thru his early years.

  On 10/02/2016 at 02:24, dee-luded said:

wrong again bob.  you just don't get it, & your time at the club off field may have set us back a long time years back.

 

your analogy is off the mark,  & totally irrelevant to changing to an onfield combative culture....  your soft & no footy background probably took us further away from getting to being a stronger footy club.

You seem to be at odds with both the Club and the captain.  Seeing such a weak culture (in your eyes) must hurt.

I hope things get better for you.

  On 10/02/2016 at 02:24, dee-luded said:

wrong again bob.  you just don't get it, & your time at the club off field may have set us back a long time years back.

 

your analogy is off the mark,  & totally irrelevant to changing to an onfield combative culture....  your soft & no footy background probably took us further away from getting to being a stronger footy club.

If Viney tackled Hogan head first into the ground which caused him to miss the first 4 weeks due to concussion what would be your reaction.

Honest question.

  On 10/02/2016 at 02:29, Baghdad Bob said:

You seem to be at odds with both the Club and the captain.  Seeing such a weak culture (in your eyes) must hurt.

I hope things get better for you.

well lets say we've experienced a weak culture many times over in the past decades, Pre Checker,,,,,  & largely since smithy was sacked by the soft culture merchants themselves BoB.  trouble is those same merchants are mostly narcissistic BoB.

 

and yes,  we have experienced   'the taming of the soft'  some 33 years ago. before.. under Barassi/Jordan lead... but the punters unfortunately don't understand it or how its achieved or why it works, as it would most likely insult them trying to understand it....  it takes a deal of introspection to be able to comprehend this painful experience,  & most up North who really have a death grip around this clubs throat aren't not the intro-spective types.

..... but moreso, they are the ones who point fingers at others whilst they sit comfortably in the cosy seats.  in absolute ignorance of the damage they do to the thing they all love so much.

 

ring a bell?  what about that finger pointing, & accusing others like Michael Long who did something reprehensible in a Grand final but they Won it.  Michael Long is still a champion player Premiership hero of the AFL & a legend for his peoples.

 

all the whilst ours sit high & mighty on their ivory seats casting frustrated judgements on anything that meets their disapproval's.

 

.when will we lose this lousy attitude,  & become normal,  & WIN.

.

  On 10/02/2016 at 02:42, dazzledavey36 said:

If Viney tackled Hogan head first into the ground which caused him to miss the first 4 weeks due to concussion what would be your reaction.

Honest question.

If he actually caused the serious injury,  I would call it stupid & careless...  but he did not hurt TMac,,  except for TMacs EGO.  probably this is what his aim was?

 

there is always a motive behind actions,  & Viney had a go at TMac.  & then backed it up again.  ....  maybe TMac???  is getting ahead of himself,  or possibly??  being a prima-donna?   Something about TMac that is roughly opposite to Viney's actions will be close to his V's motivation.

 

  On 10/02/2016 at 02:03, Frank Grimes said:

I believe that's the author of the article saying that, not Nathan Jones. If you look at the article there are no quotes around it

 

  On 10/02/2016 at 02:26, Lucifer's Hero said:

I noticed that but it looked as if the author was paraphrasing Jones so I "quoted" the author but I can see it looks like it was quoting Jones.  Jones is quoted as saying: 

"Not hurting one another's the main thing," Jones said.

"We try to sort of not dump blokes in tackles.

Be it those specific quotes or the paraphrasing there seems little doubt there was a message for Viney.

I thought Jones handled it really well either way.

Here's the interview the article was quoting....we can draw our own conclusions.

http://www.sen.com.au/audio#fwV0CiqGFe8moyGO.97

I agree that we want our players to train as they wish to play.

I also think it is prudent to show a level of care when tackling at training.

My question which I don't think anyone can answer is " Does Viney have the personality to be able to wind it back ?".

So much that is done is instinctive  - if it wasn't you wouldn't see footballers punch each other or jump of the ground and bump or have the elbow raised.

  On 10/02/2016 at 03:05, dee-luded said:

well lets say we've experienced a weak culture many times over in the past decades, Pre Checker,,,,,  & largely since smithy was sacked by the soft culture merchants themselves BoB.  trouble is those same merchants are mostly narcissistic BoB.

 

and yes,  we have experienced   'the taming of the soft'  some 33 years ago. before.. under Barassi/Jordan lead... but the punters unfortunately don't understand it or how its achieved or why it works, as it would most likely insult them trying to understand it....  it takes a deal of introspection to be able to comprehend this painful experience,  & most up North who really have a death grip around this clubs throat aren't not the intro-spective types.

..... but moreso, they are the ones who point fingers at others whilst they sit comfortably in the cosy seats.  in absolute ignorance of the damage they do to the thing they all love so much.

 

ring a bell?  what about that finger pointing, & accusing others like Michael Long who did something reprehensible in a Grand final but they Won it.  Michael Long is still a champion player Premiership hero of the AFL & a legend for his peoples.

 

all the whilst ours sit high & mighty on their ivory seats casting frustrated judgements on anything that meets their disapproval's.

 

.when will we lose this lousy attitude,  & become normal,  & WIN.

.

"most up North who really have a death grip around this clubs throat"

 

I will try again to understand. What does this mean?

  On 10/02/2016 at 03:46, ManDee said:

"most up North who really have a death grip around this clubs throat"

 

I will try again to understand. What does this mean?

Any extremely good question

People are arguing at the edges.

Clearly, Viney overstepped the mark with his tackle and subsequent dumping of McDonald.  I've been told that his head hit the ground and that if it was a normal AFL game Viney would have missed 2 or 3 weeks.  So nobody can argue Viney didn't needed to be pulled up.  

But I'm sure we all love his cold ruthlessness even at training.  We love the standard he's setting for Salem, Oliver and Brayshaw.

Let's not forget that this was a "match simulation" session.  Viney was replicating how he plays footy.

So yes, he went too far, but I'd far rather he occasionally crossed the line than have it any other way.

Just like we expect players to run, kick and handball at training the way we want them to play, we should also expect that they should tackle the same way. If Viney's tackle of McDonald would have resulted in a 2-3 week suspension, then Viney has failed at training to do what is required and needs to be taught how to tackle correctly. 

  On 10/02/2016 at 03:51, ProDee said:

People are arguing at the edges.

Clearly, Viney overstepped the mark with his tackle and subsequent dumping of McDonald.  I've been told that his head hit the ground and that if it was a normal AFL game Viney would have missed 2 or 3 weeks.  So nobody can argue Viney didn't needed to be pulled up.  

But I'm sure we all love his cold ruthlessness even at training.  We love the standard he's setting for Salem, Oliver and Brayshaw.

Let's not forget that this was a "match simulation" session.  Viney was replicating how he plays footy.

So yes, he went too far, but I'd far rather he occasionally crossed the line than have it any other way.

Didn't someone who was watching training write that it was actually a training drill instead of a match simulation hence why McDonald got cranky?

I don't know but maybe someone can correct this.

  On 10/02/2016 at 03:46, ManDee said:

"most up North who really have a death grip around this clubs throat"

 

I will try again to understand. What does this mean?

the soft attitude that constantly pervades & infects our players & recruits from within,   & turns them into nice business types,   but removes they're animal instincts which they need to be warriors of the footy field.  it turns young supermen into Clark Kents & Jimmy Olsens.

  On 10/02/2016 at 03:55, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Just like we expect players to run, kick and handball at training the way we want them to play, we should also expect that they should tackle the same way. If Viney's tackle of McDonald would have resulted in a 2-3 week suspension, then Viney has failed at training to do what is required and needs to be taught how to tackle correctly. 

Please...

He knows how to tackle superbly.  He simply crossed the line with aggression.

  On 10/02/2016 at 03:59, dee-luded said:

  On 10/02/2016 at 03:59, dee-luded said:

  On 10/02/2016 at 03:46, ManDee said:

"most up North who really have a death grip around this clubs throat"

 

I will try again to understand. What does this mean?

the soft attitude that constantly pervades & infects our players & recruits from within,   & turns them into nice business types,   but removes they're animal instincts which they need to be warriors of the footy field.  it turns young supermen into Clark Kents & Jimmy Olsens.

 

  On 10/02/2016 at 04:15, hardtack said:

Viney got a bit too aggressive but I'd rather that than self preservation techniques like this........

 

It looks like all is forgiven between Jack and Tom

  On 09/02/2016 at 23:09, ProDee said:

This may surprise you, but it's not overly important - as long as it's AFL standard, which I'm sure it will be.

Oliver's strengths lie in his clearance ability, agility (third at the draft combine 8.11), size, burst speed (for an inside mid), reading of the play, and terrific vision and decision making with handballs in congestion.  While he's a "straight ahead" player, he also backs his evasive skills.

I don't think he's an elite kick by any stretch, but I think his long kicking is good and shorter kicking adequate and will get better.  He kicks it well enough to score 30 out of 30 in the draft combine goal-kicking test.

Fyfe and Dangerfield shank plenty of kicks.  James Hird was never a great kick and did you ever see him kick on his left ?  There aren't many elite kicks in the competition and some superb footballers haven't been great kicks.  As mentioned, Fyfe is arguably the best player in the competition, but no-one would go to training and rate his kicking ability.

I've been to a few training sessions and really like what I see with Oliver. 

Sounds as if he has many of the attributes that make a very good (at least) player.

Still, some are never happy.

 

  On 10/02/2016 at 04:32, DeeMfc said:

Viney got a bit too aggressive but I'd rather that than self preservation techniques like this........

 

Self preservation techniques?   Sorry.  Tongue in cheek?

Yes, Jack probably went overboard.
But on the on the other hand I love his 'you've got my ball! Give it back!' mentality.

I dunno. Maybe the quote by the Duke of Wellington talking about his own troops sums it up:

"I don't know what effect these men will have on the enemy, but by God, they terrify me"

  On 10/02/2016 at 03:59, ProDee said:

Please...

He knows how to tackle superbly.  He simply crossed the line with aggression.

You seem to have missed the "If" in my post.

  On 10/02/2016 at 06:12, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

You seem to have missed the "If" in my comment. 

Suspension or no suspension, Viney doesn't need tuition in tackling. 

Your "if" is superfluous. 

Imagine being a gws player round 1 at the opening bounce and the ruck tap lands half way in between you and Viney........ Could be the first player to fake cramp 2 seconds into the season.

People are getting carried away with what had been a 'soft culture'. I like Viney's zest for a contest, love his competitiveness but I know if I'd been Tom McDonald I would have belted him one and said, Don't ever do that to me again. Viney crossed the line.

 

Let's see how the new tackle rule shapes up before we speculate too much.

It was a silly tackle in that it risked hurting a team mate, in a similar way in which you wouldn't knee a team mate in the back in a marking contest at training.

But for the last 100 or so years it would've been a great tackle on game day, just like the tackle on Ablett in round 1. 

How they will adjudicate tackles is a bit beyond me, but I think besides obvious slings they'll go on whether the player is concussed or not. Tommy Mc wasn't and it wasn't a slinging tackle, it was a dumping tackle with the arms pinged. If they call it a free kick or suspension I'd like to know just how they rule on it and not almost every other tackle that pins the arms and takes a player to ground.