THE BOMBERS' SWISS ADVENTURE

[beelzebub 22,436]

22 minutes ago, Elwood 3184 said:

What further punishment do you recommend?

They should already have been implemented, thats the point. Now they squeeze through .

Why are they playing for premiership points ?  Why is it even a decision still to be made to take back the Brownlow ?

How on earth did they get off so lightly from WorkSafe ?

There are some there who ought to be up on criminal charges let alone sporting ones

[sue 8,479]

I'd be content with no further penalties if the club made a clear statement that:

1. the former administration cheated and tried to cover it up

2. made it clear the club would not welcome back as 'favoured sons' any of those involved until they expressed remorse (and not just for having been caught)

3. stated that those who want to shift the blame to ASADA and WADA should pull their heads in, as while there might be the odd problem with those organizations, it was our club that broke the rules.

Of course none of that will happen because of effect on potential legal actions.

 

[Ash35 425]

 

7 hours ago, beelzebub said:

 

You do realise you can't dish out more punishments just because Essendon hasn't "taken it on the chin" like you want us to.

Shouldn't be playing in the comp this year? Where's the logic in that? Why would you ban the players currently listed who weren't even there in 2012. You want 8 games a week instead of 9, meaning the TV rights money is cut, which mean less money given to financially struggling clubs like Melbourne. You have less clue than I even thought.

Yes there has been appeals and legal challenges, but Essendon had the right to use those. Whether it was the correct course of action, obviously its up for debate.

As WJ summarised, we have lost 4 seasons so far due to this saga, and who knows how long it will take us to fully recover. And Jobe will most likely lose the Brownlow, but just let the appeal come and go and it will all happen at the right time.

You remind me of those whinging North supporters who ring up talk back radio sooking "no one gives us respect, we're top of the ladder and no one rates us". Who cares what the average punter thinks, or the media hacks out there, is North a better team because people rate them. In your case, you want everything to happen now. Just sit back, be happy Essendon are struggling, and just let the appeals be heard, and Jobe will lose his Brownlow when it happens. It really isn't worth getting this upset over.

I assume you are equally angry about Nathan Bock not being charged by ASADA. Clear evidence he took a banned substance, yet no charges. You must be furious. 

[John Crow Batty 8,323]

This whole sage is now getting pointless and boring. Once the appeal is over, let's get back to normality. But I don't want to hear from Essendon and their media mouth  pieces say they still did nothing wrong. An emphatic sorry admission what the club did that leaves no room for revisionism.  

[Chris 2,892]

4 hours ago, Ash35 said:

 

You do realise you can't dish out more punishments just because Essendon hasn't "taken it on the chin" like you want us to.

Shouldn't be playing in the comp this year? Where's the logic in that? Why would you ban the players currently listed who weren't even there in 2012. You want 8 games a week instead of 9, meaning the TV rights money is cut, which mean less money given to financially struggling clubs like Melbourne. You have less clue than I even thought.

Yes there has been appeals and legal challenges, but Essendon had the right to use those. Whether it was the correct course of action, obviously its up for debate.

As WJ summarised, we have lost 4 seasons so far due to this saga, and who knows how long it will take us to fully recover. And Jobe will most likely lose the Brownlow, but just let the appeal come and go and it will all happen at the right time.

You remind me of those whinging North supporters who ring up talk back radio sooking "no one gives us respect, we're top of the ladder and no one rates us". Who cares what the average punter thinks, or the media hacks out there, is North a better team because people rate them. In your case, you want everything to happen now. Just sit back, be happy Essendon are struggling, and just let the appeals be heard, and Jobe will lose his Brownlow when it happens. It really isn't worth getting this upset over.

I assume you are equally angry about Nathan Bock not being charged by ASADA. Clear evidence he took a banned substance, yet no charges. You must be furious. 

It is called accountability Ash and making a clear and clean stand against drug cheats. Something the AFL, AFL media, AFLPA, EFC, etc etc have failed miserably to do. All in officialdom, except ASADA and WADA think this is a massive injustuce and all their poor little boys should be let off. It is sickening. That is where a string stand like removing the team for a year comes into it, yes there would be a small financial hit but it would make the code stronger long term.  

On the Bock case, it is still being investigated due to new evidence which may be completly unreliable. What clear evidence do you have outside of the word of Charters? As you may remember he isnt the most reliable witness, as confimed by the AFL tribunal and CAS. Bock may well get away wuth this but you need evidence, they had that against the dons which is why they went down. 

[Ash35 425]

44 minutes ago, Chris said:

It is called accountability Ash and making a clear and clean stand against drug cheats. Something the AFL, AFL media, AFLPA, EFC, etc etc have failed miserably to do. All in officialdom, except ASADA and WADA think this is a massive injustuce and all their poor little boys should be let off. It is sickening. That is where a string stand like removing the team for a year comes into it, yes there would be a small financial hit but it would make the code stronger long term.  

On the Bock case, it is still being investigated due to new evidence which may be completly unreliable. What clear evidence do you have outside of the word of Charters? As you may remember he isnt the most reliable witness, as confimed by the AFL tribunal and CAS. Bock may well get away wuth this but you need evidence, they had that against the dons which is why they went down. 

Bock himself, Dank and Dean Robinson have all given evidence that he took a banned substance. Receipts showing Bock paying for said substances are also involved. Look, it's fine. I understand that you guys have very little interest in Bock compared to Essendon. I'm the same. Bock not being to coach local footy in Qld doesn't affect us, but 34 past and present Essendon players being banned for 12 months is massive.

But at least pretend to be upset that a 'damn stinkin' drug cheat' in Bock has got away scott free [fresh investigation pending]. Or will that cast questions over the competency of ASADA?

I need someone to explain to me how you can justify banning the entire club from playing in the AFL in season 2016. None of the administrators in charge of the club this season were there in 2012. Obviously none of the players available to us to play this season were part of the supplements program in 2012. Remind me why they are being punished again?

Makes zero sense. But looking forward to hearing the logic behind the theory.

 

[daisycutter 28,704]

10 minutes ago, Ash35 said:

 

I need someone to explain to me how you can justify banning the entire club from playing in the AFL in season 2016. None of the administrators in charge of the club this season were there in 2012. Obviously none of the players available to us to play this season were part of the supplements program in 2012. Remind me why they are being punished again?

Makes zero sense. But looking forward to hearing the logic behind the theory.

 

i don't think there are many here who advocate additionally banning the whole club for season 2016

personally i think essendon are well punished and have paid a big price (in many different ways), as has the whole competition. the sad thing is it need not to have dragged on this long and at such a cost. if the club (and its stakeholders) hadn't been so obstinate and buckled in earlier it would all have been well and truly behind us, as was the case in the nrl. sadly too many at essendon (or connected to) still won't let go so it will continue to fester for some time, which really helps no-one move forward    

[biggestred 4,398]

I dunno, they are talking about banning the whole of Russia from the olympics given their state sancioned doping program.

A tour de france team would be given a ban also.

A storm style play for no points would have been sufficient. But they did that already

[daisycutter 28,704]

2 minutes ago, biggestred said:

I dunno, they are talking about banning the whole of Russia from the olympics given their state sancioned doping program.

A tour de france team would be given a ban also.

A storm style play for no points would have been sufficient. But they did that already

fyi, they are also talking of banning kenya too due to some new gov legislation being passed (or about to be?) which doesn't satisfy wada

[Ash35 425]

35 minutes ago, biggestred said:

I dunno, they are talking about banning the whole of Russia from the olympics given their state sancioned doping program.

A tour de france team would be given a ban also.

A storm style play for no points would have been sufficient. But they did that already

So that is your argument? Russia?

How would that be fair to the Russian athletes that are clean?

As for playing for no points, what does that achieve? We are only going to win one game for the season anyway, whether we finish on 4 points or no points doesn't really matter too much.

[Ash35 425]

40 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

i don't think there are many here who advocate additionally banning the whole club for season 2016

personally i think essendon are well punished and have paid a big price (in many different ways), as has the whole competition. the sad thing is it need not to have dragged on this long and at such a cost. if the club (and its stakeholders) hadn't been so obstinate and buckled in earlier it would all have been well and truly behind us, as was the case in the nrl. sadly too many at essendon (or connected to) still won't let go so it will continue to fester for some time, which really helps no-one move forward    

I can't disagree with any of that.

That's why I like the Lindsay Tanner attitude of move forward, not look back.

Punishments have been handed out, they are being served, club has suffered (and still suffering), but what can the current admin do to change that. Nothing.

They can only control what happens going forward. So apart from the pending appeal for the players (which was a "free hit" for them), the current admin are trying to move forward.

Can't control the masses though, unfortunately the loudest supporters are the ones who believe injustices have occurred. There are plenty of us out there who just want to move on, but we aren't the ones who make any noise.

[biggestred 4,398]

6 minutes ago, Ash35 said:

So that is your argument? Russia?

How would that be fair to the Russian athletes that are clean?

As for playing for no points, what does that achieve? We are only going to win one game for the season anyway, whether we finish on 4 points or no points doesn't really matter too much.

Because tough [censored].

Dont cheat.

[biggestred 4,398]

Not to mention - deterrent.

Stop others doing the same.

In the case of russia i think it will be needed.

[Willmoy1947 3,815]

Not hard to figure that Bock is compliant. ASADA says ok. Investigations ongoing. My speculation is as good as anybody else's.

Essendon's Brownlow situation is a bloody disgrace and a stain that needs to be cleansed. Particularly for some of the past fairest players of all time.

If I was Essendon I would seriously think about having ONE sorry day during each season voluntarily and ongoing until they win another Flag perhaps....

I would think that would be a good gesture going forward as they say and widely accepted in the Football Community.

[Fork 'em 6,598]

They shouldn't get this years 1st pick in the draft.
But they will.
 

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

8 hours ago, Ash35 said:

I need someone to explain to me how you can justify banning the entire club from playing in the AFL in season 2016. None of the administrators in charge of the club this season were there in 2012. Obviously none of the players available to us to play this season were part of the supplements program in 2012. Remind me why they are being punished again?

Makes zero sense. But looking forward to hearing the logic behind the theory.

 

Article 11.2 of the WADA Code says this:

"If more than two members of a team in a Team Sport are found to have committed an anti-doping violation during an Event Period, the ruling body of the Event shall impose an appropriate sanction on the team (e.g. loss of points, Disqualification from a Competition or Event, or other sanction) in addition to any Consequences imposed upon the individual Athletes committing the anti-doping rule violation."

Since nothing meted out to EFC thus far has been on the basis of a finding of anti-doping violations it stands to reason that their punishment under the ASADA (WADA) Code is yet to come. No doubt the AFL will try to find every way possible to wriggle out of the consequences of the final judgment against the players, if that's what the appeals court delivers, but sanctions against EFC should still be on the table.

As for "[n]one of the administrators in charge of the club this season were there in 2012" I've seen some bottom-of-the barrel-arguments in the whole sorry affair, but this is pretty close to getting splinters under the fingernails.

I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of reference either for your claim that Dank has "given evidence" in the Bock case. If you mean posturing in front of a microphone that's another story.

 

[Chris 2,892]

9 hours ago, Ash35 said:

Bock himself, Dank and Dean Robinson have all given evidence that he took a banned substance. Receipts showing Bock paying for said substances are also involved. Look, it's fine. I understand that you guys have very little interest in Bock compared to Essendon. I'm the same. Bock not being to coach local footy in Qld doesn't affect us, but 34 past and present Essendon players being banned for 12 months is massive.

But at least pretend to be upset that a 'damn stinkin' drug cheat' in Bock has got away scott free [fresh investigation pending]. Or will that cast questions over the competency of ASADA?

I need someone to explain to me how you can justify banning the entire club from playing in the AFL in season 2016. None of the administrators in charge of the club this season were there in 2012. Obviously none of the players available to us to play this season were part of the supplements program in 2012. Remind me why they are being punished again?

Makes zero sense. But looking forward to hearing the logic behind the theory.

 

As I said Ash, the evidence from Dank and Robinson means very little abd where has a reciept from Bock been mentioned? If there is enough evidence he should be banned, if there is enough and he isnt then that is wrong. I am on record for saying as much. The big difference driving our attitude is the attitude of Bock. He is not the sanctimonious prat that the EFC have been. He uasnt claimed to not know what he took but been sure it wasnt banned, he hasnt been protected by the AFL, he hasnt taken court action at every turn even when it has zero chance of success. 

On the ban against the team, under the current code they would be gone, pending actual competence from the AFL. Many cycling teams and others have faced that fate and have been banned. As i said it comes down to credibility and taking a strong stand to protect the long term future of the sport, which is sonething the AFL have no interest in.

[sue 8,479]

Ash - you can argue the hind legs off a dog, but I'll be more ready to listen when the club formally apologises and stops trying to blame everyone else.

[beelzebub 22,436]

Well it seems many have already covered the bases as to Ash's concerns. From where I sit the EFC has got off rather lightly to date and much of the costs to the club are through its own stupity and arrogance. 

Had not the League itself become complicit in proceedings one might suppose a more appropriate outcome. To suggest a penalty to one club can't be meted out because of any impact to others is incredulous. I'm sure we all could have coped with 17 teams Ash.

When are your good self and your club going to cease with the victim mentality. You're the cause. Everything stems from the actions, deceit, conspiring and meddling with due process.

If this were a team in another league in another place you wouldn't be nearly so lucky.

Far from actually punishing you the AFL has bent over sideways to facilitate '  a get out of gaol" situation. The only really penalties coming from Asada/WADA.

Essendon is far from being  hard done by, it's hardly been touched.

Edited May 14, 2016 by beelzebub

[Sir Why You Little 35,086]

The worst aspect of this years comp is that some play the drug cheating scum twice whilst others face them only once

where is that a fair fixture. I shall hate everything Windy Pill until i am dead. 

Just because a cheat supporter is a poster on this site trying to paint a different scenario will never change my views

Essendrug should have been banned from the AFL for a number of years. They weren't. Why? Because the AFL and Commission govern themselves

[Mazer Rackham 14,970]

11 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The worst aspect of this years comp is that some play the drug cheating scum twice whilst others face them only once

where is that a fair fixture. I shall hate everything Windy Pill until i am dead. 

Just because a cheat supporter is a poster on this site trying to paint a different scenario will never change my views

Essendrug should have been banned from the AFL for a number of years. They weren't. Why? Because the AFL and Commission govern themselves

The AFL and the EFC each know where the others buried the bodies. It's detente. Mutually Assured Destruction.

[beelzebub 22,436]

2 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

The AFL and the EFC each know where the others buried the bodies. It's detente. Mutually Assured Destruction.

Sums it up quite well , sadly.

[Sir Why You Little 35,086]

3 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

The AFL and the EFC each know where the others buried the bodies. It's detente. Mutually Assured Destruction.

Of course & this is why Toothless Gill will not remove the Brownlow from around the neck of that Mega Scum Jab Watson. Watson knows everything and still wants his medal

a life of alcohol abuse awaits him...

[Willmoy1947 3,815]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Well it seems many have already covered the bases as to Ash's concerns. From where I sit the EFC has got off rather lightly to date and much of the costs to the club are through its own stupity and arrogance. 

Had not the League itself become complicit in proceedings one might suppose a more appropriate outcome. To suggest a penalty to one club can't be meted out because of any impact to others is incredulous. I'm sure we all could have coped with 17 teams Ash.

When are your good self and your club going to cease with the victim mentality. You're the cause. Everything stems from the actions, deceit, conspiring and meddling with due process.

If this were a team in another league in another place you wouldn't be nearly so lucky.

Far from actually punishing you the AFL has bent over sideways to facilitate '  a get out of gaol" situation. The only really penalties coming from Asada/WADA.

Essendon is far from being  hard done by, it's hardly been touched.

Really good summation of events a lot better than I could do, and like a lot of us we stand together on this issue without division.

[Sir Why You Little 35,086]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Well it seems many have already covered the bases as to Ash's concerns. From where I sit the EFC has got off rather lightly to date and much of the costs to the club are through its own stupity and arrogance. 

Had not the League itself become complicit in proceedings one might suppose a more appropriate outcome. To suggest a penalty to one club can't be meted out because of any impact to others is incredulous. I'm sure we all could have coped with 17 teams Ash.

When are your good self and your club going to cease with the victim mentality. You're the cause. Everything stems from the actions, deceit, conspiring and meddling with due process.

If this were a team in another league in another place you wouldn't be nearly so lucky.

Far from actually punishing you the AFL has bent over sideways to facilitate '  a get out of gaol" situation. The only really penalties coming from Asada/WADA.

Essendon is far from being  hard done by, it's hardly been touched.

Ash only reads certain comments, how convenient

Like a dog..."Because i shut my eyes i am not here..."