Binman, politics is really very simple. In the end you can tell everything there is to know about someone based on which Jones they like; Alan or Tony.

Choose your favourite windbag - the huff-and-puff or the seeping, low fizz.

Although, even in this post there are nuances. I'm now permanently branded a chardonnay-sipping-socialist and/or bourgeois toff because of that semi-colon I used.

I prefer Nathan. In fact, given these choices, I prefer Matt, too.

You're taking yourself way too seriously.

I'm sure you won't be offended if I say I couldn't give a rat's toss bag where you are on the "political spectrum". And if I pigeon holed you please accept my heartfelt apologies.

Yours sincerely,

ProDee

Ben, i must admit i kind of like your tough guy, I'm Derryn Hinch and you're not shtick. It can be quite funny.

But i f i can offer some constructive criticism you might want to dial back the irony a bit. A little bit of irony can add to the laugh factor but too much means a good riff can fall flat. Take the post quoted above:

Me taking my self too seriously? Seriously (pardon the pun)? Anyone aware of your posting history knows that you seem to take yourself incredibly seriously, with your black and white views, general surliness and belief that you alone know football (and politics for that matter).

You don't give a rats toss bag about where i sit on the the political spectrum? Then why twice post your opinion about what you guess to be my political allegiances?

You tell me Clint Eastwood style to 'keep walking' and not bother to engage in conversation yet continue to reply to my posts.

Anyway comrade its been nice chatting and i look forward to more chats in the future.

Anyway comrade its been nice chatting and i look forward to more chats in the future.

Busted! Ben's right - you really are a pinko commie leftist union-supporting tree-hugger type

You clearly dont run a small business. There is no way people will cop that. And BTW casual pay rates go from c$20ph to c$35ph, a lot more than 20%.

So in this statement you showed that a) you obviously don't frequent cafes/restaurants /etc. regularly and that b) you clearly don't understand basic business.

Many cafes already implement public holiday surcharge. It is pretty much expected anywhere in Fitzroy, Richmond, Brunswick etc.

And given that supplies and goods, and overheads (including rent, power, administration, equipment etc) all remain constant whether you open or not, that increase in staff wages for the day is more than off set by a small percentage increase in menu prices that day.

Busted! Ben's right - you really are a pinko commie leftist union-supporting tree-hugger type

Got me. I used to be an anarchist but we could never agree on meeting times or consistent agendas

So in this statement you showed that a) you obviously don't frequent cafes/restaurants /etc. regularly and that b) you clearly don't understand basic business.

Many cafes already implement public holiday surcharge. It is pretty much expected anywhere in Fitzroy, Richmond, Brunswick etc.

And given that supplies and goods, and overheads (including rent, power, administration, equipment etc) all remain constant whether you open or not, that increase in staff wages for the day is more than off set by a small percentage increase in menu prices that day.

Yeah I do actually I own one. Which I suspect is more than can be said of your 'credentials' on this issue.

And I won't be opening on this public holiday because I will have to pay $35 an hour for unskilled staff. The day will be a dud anyway and it will cost around $1500 in wages to have the doors open. The margins are way to thin as well./

But thanks for your small business lecture in any case.

Yeah I do actually I own one. Which I suspect is more than can be said of your 'credentials' on this issue.

And I won't be opening on this public holiday because I will have to pay $35 an hour for unskilled staff. The day will be a dud anyway and it will cost around $1500 in wages to have the doors open. The margins are way to thin as well./

But thanks for your small business lecture in any case.

i am sure that your city cafe does very nicely for 47-48 weeks of the year. A concentrated amount of city pedestrians walk by each day.

For one day business can shift to the suburbs. BBQ's start a day earlier

The day will only be a dud if you wish to make it that.

The latest justification for this holiday is that it will "boost tourism". If the gov't was so concerned about rural tourism, they could have announced their new holiday to fall almost any time in August, September, October ... or to fall on a Monday. Had a kind of "rural tourism festival". If they were going to be really sneaky about giving tourism a boost they could have it fall on a Thursday or Tuesday, knowing people would turn it into a really long weekend, and wouldn't that give tourism a boost?

So why didn't the tourism minister announce it?

It was the Small Business minister who announced it ffs! The bloke who represents all the people who hate it already!

I note Dan was nowhere to be seen. Could be he's not so sure any more.

This thing was proposed originally as "Grand Final Friday" to cash in on the GF buzz but looks like it will in fact kill it. So now we're hearing that it will be good because it will "reduce absenteeism". We now throw holidays to "reduce absenteeism"? Imagine how productive we'd be if every day was a holiday.

The only thing that can save this new holiday is a booming GF parade crowd that the pols can hold up as a triumph over all else. Even if there turns out to be bugger all rural tourism.

Prediction: if crowds are good we will see pics of Dan all over the HS the next day. If crowds are poor, he will be nowhere in sight. (Yeah, I know, not earth shattering.)

I wonder what it will do for absenteeism on the Thursday? Or the Monday after the GF? Reduce it? I don't think so.

Yeah I do actually I own one. Which I suspect is more than can be said of your 'credentials' on this issue.

And I won't be opening on this public holiday because I will have to pay $35 an hour for unskilled staff. The day will be a dud anyway and it will cost around $1500 in wages to have the doors open. The margins are way to thin as well./

But thanks for your small business lecture in any case.

My small business credentials are not in the hospitality industry. They are in the consulting industry. It will hit us harder than you because we don't have the option of opening and making money that day like you do.

Our product is man hours, and changes like this cost are factored into our hourly rates when they are reviewed.

But the simple thing is, like any regulaton, we all just have to suck it up and work within the system. There are about 5 million people in Victoria. In 2009 there were ~500,000 of which over 300,000 were non-employing. This is beneficial for a lot more people than it will potentially hurt.

I'm retired what's a public holiday?

.... There are about 5 million people in Victoria. In 2009 there were ~500,000 of which over 300,000 were non-employing. This is beneficial for a lot more people than it will potentially hurt.

huh?

like mfc that argument needs a lot more development

huh?

like mfc that argument needs a lot more development

Probably not well stated.

But if the argument is that the extra public holiday hurts small business owners who have to pay their employees extra, there is also a fair argument that the public holiday is potentially beneficial to non small business owners (i.e. everyone else) who get a day off to spend with family friends etc. And given there are a lot more people who are employees than employers, i suspect the majority of people would benefit from this.

Lol. What an idiotic idea. But wtf right? I get paid if I'm not rostered on and paid double time and a half if I am.

Sounds good to me.

Probably not well stated.

But if the argument is that the extra public holiday hurts small business owners who have to pay their employees extra, there is also a fair argument that the public holiday is potentially beneficial to non small business owners (i.e. everyone else) who get a day off to spend with family friends etc. And given there are a lot more people who are employees than employers, i suspect the majority of people would benefit from this.

if the economy was in great shape you might be onto something

Age journo Richard Willingham is a Melbourne supporter, but I'm not sure what to do with this sort of holiday...

Richard Willingham ‏@rwillingham 5m

There should be two pubic holidays if the Dees ever make the Grand Final... #springst #qt

Haha, I love Australia.

how ridiculous that itll likely be 2 WA teams in the GF and Victoria gets a day off and WA dont.

not complaining.... i dont mind sleeping in on the 2nd

Yep we have 6.2% unemployment in Victoria and the new gumment decides to shut down the state for another day. Smart move.

Gill should move the Parade to the Thursday. The teams would probably prefer it anyway.

Yep we have 6.2% unemployment in Victoria and the new gumment decides to shut down the state for another day. Smart move.

Gill should move the Parade to the Thursday. The teams would probably prefer it anyway.

I spend a lot more of my Cash if i am out and about rather than stuck in an office building all day

Victoria is not shutting down for a day...

how ridiculous that itll likely be 2 WA teams in the GF and Victoria gets a day off and WA dont.

not complaining.... i dont mind sleeping in on the 2nd

What's more ridiculous if that scenario pans out, is that two Western Australian teams have to travel across the country to play each other in Melbourne, with the added downside that the supporters in their heartland have virtually no chance of seeing them play other than on TV.

how ridiculous that itll likely be 2 WA teams in the GF and Victoria gets a day off and WA dont.

not complaining.... i dont mind sleeping in on the 2nd

I actually think that the best case scenario for this holiday to have legs is if there is at least one interstate team in the Grand Final. Two is a bonus.

As against this holiday as I have been in this thread, you'd be crazy to close up shop on a day when 30,000-40,000 people from Perth are all in the city on the same days at the same time.

I bet Andrews is praying for an all-interstate Grand Final. It would be a bonanza. Two Melbourne team and it's be a ghost town on Parade day.

I actually think that the best case scenario for this holiday to have legs is if there is at least one interstate team in the Grand Final. Two is a bonus.

As against this holiday as I have been in this thread, you'd be crazy to close up shop on a day when 30,000-40,000 people from Perth are all in the city on the same days at the same time.

I bet Andrews is praying for an all-interstate Grand Final. It would be a bonanza. Two Melbourne team and it's be a ghost town on Parade day.

Totally agree. Tourists will book Hotels in the City or close to the MCG

If the weather is good they will be out spending all friday. Pubs Bars Cafés

Souvenir shops...

2 interstate teams is a bonaza for the CBD

We are the only country/state in the world that has a holiday for a horse race. We take a long weekend so we can watch the Dees against the filth on a Monday ------- or go to the snow, to celebrate a Queen's birthday, which is not even her birthday, in which case WA celebrate the same Monarch's birthday at a different time of the year. The old Show Day Holiday was taken away, which was in place for the benefit of Victorian farmers originally. Go figure, we can have a day off for a Queen, but we can't have a day off, leading into one of the best and most spectacular sporting days on the calendar. To be honest, in Australia, the "Queen's" Birthday is an absolute anachronism.

The opponents of this are using it to make their protest against penalty rates in general, particularly in the hospitality industry. That is a different debate all together. One public holiday is not going to make any real difference in that regard.

I spend a lot more of my Cash if i am out and about rather than stuck in an office building all day

Victoria is not shutting down for a day...

Yeah it is. The CBD will be empty.