Post Match Discussion - Round 12 (never in doubt)

[Ethan Tremblay 30,822]

I thought that was Enright,,,

It was James Kelly on that occasion but Scarlett, Enright and again Kelly had all done it previously following other wins.

[Adam The God 30,112]

Watching the replay AGAIN...cant get enough!

Have lost count though...of how many times we let Geelong get a centre clearance immediately after we kick a goal...to score an immediate (counter) goal.

They just let all their hard work be undone in a matter of seconds.

First world problems after a win like that...but really stood out.

I'm watching it again now too. I'll be rewatching this one often I reckon.

The thing I've noticed this year in Tyson's game is that he doesn't block or sheppard for team mates and in the most obvious of situations too. He needs to get better at this. His game was better than I thought watching it live though.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

We're are all the critics on demonland sinking the boots into Roos & the players..... expecting miracles & quick fix of our list.....A new breed & culture is developing & the team has shown in most games they are capable of playing great footy...

That's the difference between winning and losing I guess. There's still plenty of room for improvement though.

Eg, some of the delivery i50, particularly in the 2nd quarter was horrid. Players not lowering eyes (in some cases under little or no pressure) but just bombing it on top of heads pretty much every time. This and we need to look inside when running the ball around the wings off HB and see that sometimes, there is a player or 2 free there and pull the trigger when the opportunity is there.

I will name names and happy to say Bail's disposal is still super ordinary. In particular his handballs, which mostly either go straight to an opponent, no one (ie, panic drops it making another loose ball contest) or to one of our boys but often selling them into trouble. Gets to where the contest is pretty well but rarely picks the right options etc after so many seasons in the system. These performances tend to get glossed over when you win (ie, others who are performing end up covering over the ugly bits).

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Watts didn't catch Selwood when he powered out of the centre in the last quarter for a goal. But, the laconic lope and doe eyes are gone. That was the look of commitment and determination.

Also loving the bromance of Jonesy and Brawshaw. You can see them having fun.

I'm sure it's the delirium of the win, but, can we still make the finals? I feel something building.

I can't hear any watts bashing. We must have won.

The annoying thing is if we held on last week we would be only 1 game out of the 8

Much improved in terms of chasing and tackling in the open but still not quite right at some marking contests and potential clutch tackle opportunities in congestion (need to go as it's your turn!). His uncontested was first class as always though and reads the game better than most. Has also learned to start taking tackles and play through them, ensuring his hands are free for the give off. Something I haven't seen much of prior to this year.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Watching the replay AGAIN...cant get enough!

Have lost count though...of how many times we let Geelong get a centre clearance immediately after we kick a goal...to score an immediate (counter) goal.

They just let all their hard work be undone in a matter of seconds.

First world problems after a win like that...but really stood out.

Yes this needs addressing. Happens (and happened again on Sunday) far too often/easily.

I'm not watching again as I don't have the time but from what I recall it was mostly Selwood imposing himself and rolling out after bodying Viney off the ball. Viney was solid but hard to keep a champ quiet for an entire match. Also I think an interrupted season has Viney NQR in terms of tank/leg speed in those first 5 metres or so. Tends to get burned off reasonably easy. Steven a good example in those last 40 sec last week.

In addition I seem to recall it was some of Spencil's ruck work, eg tapping it to open areas which favoured the cats, that didnt help our cause here. Would need to watch again though to be sure.

[Gorgoroth 12,920]

Gawn was tapping to the open side in the last around the 10-8 mins left, think he was told to bring it to his feet cos he started to do that instead.

[jackaub 1,402]

I can't hear any watts bashing. We must have won.

The annoying thing is if we held on last week we would be only 1 game out of the 8

He is not being" bashed" because at last he is having a go and people apprecciate that fact.When he doesn't that's when he is so called "bashed" on here. Simple really!

[BrisbaneDemon 1,572]

We have 6 players in the team of the week!!!!!!

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-23/team-of-the-week-round-12

[praha 11,228]

I missed this game. I've been in LA for work.

Fun fact: I haven't watched Melbourne beat Geelong since Round 21, 2000. I've missed every game we've beaten them since (I think we've only beaten them three or four times since then).

That means that in my whole life, I've never watched them win in Geelong.

[What 18,810]

We have 6 players in the team of the week!!!!!!

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-23/team-of-the-week-round-12

[Lucifers Hero 39,504]

I posted yesterday that the Stk loss may well be the turning point for us.

The players knew they had let the game slip and were gutted.

It was the final straw for the players - writ big over their faces at the siren.

Finally, finally, losing hurt.

So it was good to hear that our wonderful captain had approached Roos to take responsibility on behalf of the players.

Big of him.

Roos comment on this was: " the players taking ownership for the fatal last few seconds was a “significant moment” ...in how the team would ultimately respond a week later". (This may well explain Roos' wry smile a few seconds after the siren).

Finally, the players had had enough!

Had enough of losing.

Had enough of hurting

Had enough of ridicule.

Had enough of media bashing.

The 186 loss and Sunday's win, both at Kardinia Park may bookend the start and end of our worst years of misery.

But, the StK game will go down in our history as the turning point.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[praha 11,228]

I posted yesterday that the Stk loss may well be the turning point for us.

The players knew they had let the game slip and were gutted.

It was the final straw for the players - writ big over their faces at the siren.

Finally, finally, losing hurt.

So it was good to hear that our wonderful captain had approached Roos to take responsibility on behalf of the players.

Big of him.

Roos comment on this was: " the players taking ownership for the fatal last few seconds was a “significant moment” ...in how the team would ultimately respond a week later". (This may well explain Roos' wry smile a few seconds after the siren).

Finally, the players had had enough!

Had enough of losing.

Had enough of hurting

Had enough of ridicule.

Had enough of media bashing.

The 186 loss and Sunday's win, both at Kardinia Park may bookend the start and end of our worst years of misery.

But, the StK game will go down in our history as the turning point.

Calm down. It was a superb win - one of the greatest - but we have a ways to go. If they lose to the Eagles by 10 goals it'll undo a lot of what has been achieved here.

True consistency imo will be the "turning" point.

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

He is not being" bashed" because at last he is having a go and people apprecciate that fact.When he doesn't that's when he is so called "bashed" on here. Simple really!

Hardly true, peoples bias leads to constant Watts bashing, many posters prefer for Watts to be playing poorly or making mistakes in order to highlight these as opposed to his positive moments. He is often unfairly criticised by most who do it and I would definitely say that if there was a loss regardless of his contribution posters would highlight mistakes that he made rather than anything else.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Mad_Melbourne

[Uncle Fester 2,848]

I can't f-ing wait to play Carlton if we keep this brand of footy up. Nothing bruise free about it. I hope when we play the lions that Viney and co hammer that [censored] Mitch Robinson.

We are finally a hard at it team!

In all our wins we've played hard tough footy. Even in some of our losses we've done that before we fell back on old habits. I like that we have a bunch of kids that enjoy the tough stuff, and that don't care if they get crunched; they just get up and go again. It makes the rest of the team walk a little taller and back themselves a little more. I like the basics of what I see even if we sometimes lack polish and forget the game plan. Tough is enough for me right now - we can work on the rest.

[Lucifers Hero 39,504]

Calm down. It was a superb win - one of the greatest - but we have a ways to go. If they lose to the Eagles by 10 goals it'll undo a lot of what has been achieved here.

True consistency imo will be the "turning" point.

I wasn't actually talking about Sunday's win. I was talking about the impact on the players of the St K loss.

Go back and watch the players faces after the St K loss. Gutted in a way I have not seen after a loss before.

Look at Jones laying flat, face down on the ground. Gutted.

You could almost read his mind saying: 'that's it, I've had enough of this sh-t'.

Like a steely resolve was born in that moment.

You see the turning point in results, that is fine.

I see the turning point as a change in attitude...I think that is the 'significant moment' Roos was referring to.

The St K loss was the final catalyst to change the attitude.

A loss, to misquote the words of an ex Prime Minister: 'it was the loss we had to have'.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[jackaub 1,402]

Hardly true, peoples bias leads to constant Watts bashing, many posters prefer for Watts to be playing poorly or making mistakes in order to highlight these as opposed to his positive moments. He is often unfairly criticised by most who do it and I would definitely say that if there was a loss regardless of his contribution posters would highlight mistakes that he made rather than anything else.

If Watts played with the same desire he exhibited on Sunday and showed glimpses of in the previous 2 games then he wouldn't be "bashed" on here. The reason people have showed some dissapointment in Watts is entirely down to his past performances ie down to Jack. I don't understand why you would call it bias. I have never been a great fan of JW but certainly wouldn't bash him or wish him to play poorly when he is playing well and showing the skills and class that he has always possessed. The issue has been his desire that is what people see . It is hardly bias in my opinion

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

If Watts played with the same desire he exhibited on Sunday and showed glimpses of in the previous 2 games then he wouldn't be "bashed" on here. The reason people have showed some dissapointment in Watts is entirely down to his past performances ie down to Jack. I don't understand why you would call it bias. I have never been a great fan of JW but certainly wouldn't bash him or wish him to play poorly when he is playing well and showing the skills and class that he has always possessed. The issue has been his desire that is what people see . It is hardly bias in my opinion

The bold statement is where I think the bias comes from. May not be with you, but it is with alot of posters on here. Because they feel that he has not showed "desire" at times, they are biased towards his desire levels at every contest. If he loses one, or is out of positioned and out bodied it is often related to effort and I personally don't think this is true 90% of the time. This is highlighted often when at the game by most people chastising Watts for alot of things that he actually has not done wrong.

[jnrmac 20,053]

I missed this game. I've been in LA for work.

Fun fact: I haven't watched Melbourne beat Geelong since Round 21, 2000. I've missed every game we've beaten them since (I think we've only beaten them three or four times since then).

That means that in my whole life, I've never watched them win in Geelong.

Go away more often....

[jnrmac 20,053]

The bold statement is where I think the bias comes from. May not be with you, but it is with alot of posters on here. Because they feel that he has not showed "desire" at times, they are biased towards his desire levels at every contest. If he loses one, or is out of positioned and out bodied it is often related to effort and I personally don't think this is true 90% of the time. This is highlighted often when at the game by most people chastising Watts for alot of things that he actually has not done wrong.

Lets face it, Watts has played appallingly the past few years and his attack at the contest has been non-existent. FFS he even got beaten by Jamie Bennell in a one on one and was regularly beaten in contests by all and sundry.

He is an elite ball user and decision maker but his physicality and lame attempts at tackling, chasing and picking up his opponent have been part of the 'culture' problem as I see it.

He has improved out of sight in the past few weeks. I couldn't be happier for the team and for us, the supporters, I hope it is a true watershed for him and his confidence. The whole " I am dropping myself to the Reserves" thing smelled a bit weird to me but whatever the reason it seems to have worked well. Long may it continue.

[Akum 2,660]

Lets face it, Watts has played appallingly the past few years and his attack at the contest has been non-existent. FFS he even got beaten by Jamie Bennell in a one on one and was regularly beaten in contests by all and sundry.

He is an elite ball user and decision maker but his physicality and lame attempts at tackling, chasing and picking up his opponent have been part of the 'culture' problem as I see it.

He has improved out of sight in the past few weeks. I couldn't be happier for the team and for us, the supporters, I hope it is a true watershed for him and his confidence. The whole " I am dropping myself to the Reserves" thing smelled a bit weird to me but whatever the reason it seems to have worked well. Long may it continue.

"Let's face it", it's wildly over-the-top statements like this that prove that Watts-bashing is alive & well

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

When Jack tackled Varcoe I leapt shouting to my feet, and the roar from Demon fans was marvellous to hear. We all knew exactly what we were seeing.

[Seraph 1,824]

The whole " I am dropping myself to the Reserves" thing smelled a bit weird to me but whatever the reason it seems to have worked well. Long may it continue.

I do wonder if they'd been trying to get him to play a certain way all year but he was too worried about stuffing up on game day in front of 20k people who seemingly have no issues with turning on him at the drop of the hat.

With this I can understand the idea of the coaches possibly encouraging him to try and put it into practice at VFL, where no-one would scream at him if he made a couple of errors or got caught with the ball etc.

It seems like Jack has gone and done this, and thought to himself "Oh right, I can do all of these things when I play footy".

A little bit of confidence and self-belief can go a long way. It looks like Jack is finally trusting himself and the coaches for the first time since he was forced to debut on the fateful day all those years ago.

[rpfc 28,248]

He is always going to do things that infuriate us, but, as I have maintained for a few years now, while he may not be a 'big piece' he can contribute to our rise up the ladder.

The amount of internet we devote to his every contest is still a worry though - he gets attention that far outweighs his importance to our side.

When we don't play well - it is not because of Jack. And we can still win when he doesn't play well.

That isn't to say we cannot criticise what he does, only that we should keep in perspective how much criticism we devote to him as opposed to others, and the type of criticism we give: there were a few posters on here who fervently thought that 'retirement' was Watts' best option for all concerned at the end of the season...

Is that condescending? I think it is beyond that.

[Biffen 12,940]

We are watching a legend of the MFC play the game. Wonderful thing.

He looks good in the Holy number 2.

Max is starting to look worthy of wearing the most Sacred 11.

[mo64 5,853]

When Jack tackled Varcoe I leapt shouting to my feet, and the roar from Demon fans was marvellous to hear. We all knew exactly what we were seeing.

Were you at a Swans/Collingwood game?