Apart from been absolutely fed up with beltings like most like minded dees supporters where the hell are our leaders when our team just folds like a pack of cards.

So what we have had a couple of reasonable wins this year....so what?

As soon as we have a win, the club runs around with its chest puffed out and then follows up with another belting. This rot has to stop. Enough is enough, and this leadership group need to be accountable, and that includes our skipper. Yes the while leadership group!

When will our leaders take control during a run on and settle it down? They are some of the worst culprits when things start to unravel....

No point walking off the ground at the end looking like sad sacks and having a sulk in the rooms, then stating the bleeding obvious at press conferences. This club talks about climbing the ladder.....it's all talk year after year....our leaders - those who are chosen to lead....start doing your jobs FFS, these embarrassing losses have gone on far too long, way to long. When is this nonsense going to turn around?

Apart from been absolutely fed up with beltings like most like minded dees supporters where the hell are our leaders when our team just folds like a pack of cards.

So what we have had a couple of reasonable wins this year....so what?

As soon as we have a win, the club runs around with its chest puffed out and then follows up with another belting. This rot has to stop. Enough is enough, and this leadership group need to be accountable, and that includes our skipper. Yes the while leadership group!

When will our leaders take control during a run on and settle it down? They are some of the worst culprits when things start to unravel....

No point walking off the ground at the end looking like sad sacks and having a sulk in the rooms, then stating the bleeding obvious at press conferences. This club talks about climbing the ladder.....it's all talk year after year....our leaders - those who are chosen to lead....start doing your jobs FFS, these embarrassing losses have gone on far too long, way to long. When is this nonsense going to turn around?

When the list improves.

Too much is left to just a few.

When the list improves.

Too much is left to just a few.

Pretty much sums it up. I think the potential "Trengove" trade last year showed Roos was willing do what many thought unthinkable. Goodwin will inherit this list in 18 months and should be very vocal in the list management meetings. If players think that because they continue to get picked they're safe then they only have themselves fooled. We have zero depth. I still think we have a number of winnable games left this year. Again, this years trade/draft period looms as one of the clubs most important.

2017 is the answer.

I agree, our leadership is pathetic.

Jones tries, but even this year, he seems to be getting worn down.

Tbh, the way we cold so often is the main reason I'm now considering giving up my full membership for a country one or not at all.

I can handle losing, what I can't and gets me angry is watching players give up or not even try.

Apart from been absolutely fed up with beltings like most like minded dees supporters where the hell are our leaders when our team just folds like a pack of cards.

So what we have had a couple of reasonable wins this year....so what?

As soon as we have a win, the club runs around with its chest puffed out and then follows up with another belting. This rot has to stop. Enough is enough, and this leadership group need to be accountable, and that includes our skipper. Yes the while leadership group!

When will our leaders take control during a run on and settle it down? They are some of the worst culprits when things start to unravel....

No point walking off the ground at the end looking like sad sacks and having a sulk in the rooms, then stating the bleeding obvious at press conferences. This club talks about climbing the ladder.....it's all talk year after year....our leaders - those who are chosen to lead....start doing your jobs FFS, these embarrassing losses have gone on far too long, way to long. When is this nonsense going to turn around?

obviously its about getting the weakest competitors out of the side, as we can replace their talents. but remember we are still rebuilding & still teaching & developing, so some will come good, & others never will; time is something we have, but patience is short.

rome didn't destroy itself in one week, & it wasn't rebuilt overnight; but it wyl happen.

We could delist the entire leadership group

They are clearly not up to it

Very sad but it just keeps happening.

They cannot play when pressure is applied...

I don't think N Nones is a natural leader. His a good soldier who has been made captain as he is our best soldier but when it comes to leading it is obvious it isn't natural for him.

I don't think N Nones is a natural leader. His a good soldier who has been made captain as he is our best soldier but when it comes to leading it is obvious it isn't natural for him.

absolutely correct with no disrespect to N Jones.

He does not have it is his DNA

i wish he did & i bet he does to, but it aint there.

T Mac has it. Brayshaw has it....

I don't think N Nones is a natural leader. His a good soldier who has been made captain as he is our best soldier but when it comes to leading it is obvious it isn't natural for him.

Roos identified this and set about turning him into one. Happy for him to lead for another two years before handing it over to Viney.

I think for the club as a whole that when you have players in the team that struggle to do the basics on the field but got the vote because of seniority or clubman status it sets you up to fail.

2017 is the answer.

New apocalypse date?

Roos identified this and set about turning him into one. Happy for him to lead for another two years before handing it over to Viney.

Viney is no Captain

He is a Kamakaze Pilot..just let him do it

No more early calling of captains, it's gotten us nowhere.

Although in saying that it is clearly a Hogan/Brayshaw combo..

Viney is no Captain

He is a Kamakaze Pilot..just let him do it

Captain doesn't always have to = most skilful player. He plays for the jumper and leads by example on field.

Captain doesn't always have to = most skilful player. He plays for the jumper and leads by example on field.

yes Viney plays for the jumper. Give him a job and he will do it

Doesn't make him Captain

People saying Nathan jones isn't a natural leader are dead wrong, bloke gives so much of his time trying to help out his teammates, he sets the example in terms of intensity and work ethic every training, every game, and he is getting the absolute best out of himself, everything I hope our young core become, the issue is I think that when we lose we have way to many passengers, it's not always on Nathan jones to turn it around on his own.

Time to see jack watts and Jeremy Howe those sorts of blokes start impacting the contest when we're struggling not just looking a million dollars in our wins.

Highly depressing that the only two of about four blokes who really had a crack when port were on top had a combined games experience of 17.

its way way too soon to be talking about our next captain as most of our talent is under 22yrs of age.

Jones has it for the Roosy term, & then after that, we can look again.

silly to be speaking of kids as future captains, even when they aren't solid fixtures in the team. it just hurts their development (attitude & self perception) as they hear things along the grapevine.

Edited May 31, 201510 yr by dee-luded

People saying Nathan jones isn't a natural leader are dead wrong, bloke gives so much of his time trying to help out his teammates, he sets the example in terms of intensity and work ethic every training, every game, and he is getting the absolute best out of himself, everything I hope our young core become, the issue is I think that when we lose we have way to many passengers, it's not always on Nathan jones to turn it around on his own.

Time to see jack watts and Jeremy Howe those sorts of blokes start impacting the contest when we're struggling not just looking a million dollars in our wins.

Highly depressing that the only two of about four blokes who really had a crack when port were on top had a combined games experience of 17.

Wrong.

Every serious loss we have had this year and last year Jones has been unsighted.

A true Captain rises above his obstacles when the heat is on

When the engine is under severe load...Jonesy is not the man. He is a dam good blue collar worker/soldier...

People saying Nathan jones isn't a natural leader are dead wrong, bloke gives so much of his time trying to help out his teammates, he sets the example in terms of intensity and work ethic every training, every game, and he is getting the absolute best out of himself, everything I hope our young core become, the issue is I think that when we lose we have way to many passengers, it's not always on Nathan jones to turn it around on his own.

Time to see jack watts and Jeremy Howe those sorts of blokes start impacting the contest when we're struggling not just looking a million dollars in our wins.

Highly depressing that the only two of about four blokes who really had a crack when port were on top had a combined games experience of 17.

tis the season to be merry this off-season; & to grade the soft apples from the best.

Of course there's a plan B!! Each player is to go into his shell, panic, fumble, turn the ball over and/or give the ball to a teammate in a worse position. So there you have it.

Oh yes, and point!!

People saying Nathan jones isn't a natural leader are dead wrong, bloke gives so much of his time trying to help out his teammates, he sets the example in terms of intensity and work ethic every training, every game, and he is getting the absolute best out of himself, everything I hope our young core become, the issue is I think that when we lose we have way to many passengers, it's not always on Nathan jones to turn it around on his own.

Time to see jack watts and Jeremy Howe those sorts of blokes start impacting the contest when we're struggling not just looking a million dollars in our wins.

Highly depressing that the only two of about four blokes who really had a crack when port were on top had a combined games experience of 17.

Nailed it. The guy can only do so much and it's not his fault that over 50% of his team mates aren't up to it

Plenty of fair points about Jones, but still, real leadership inspires, and causes others to walk tall, to rise above themselves. Out of all we have, I think Hogan looks likeliest to do that.

To lead you have to be at the front, you have to have clear purpose that gets the rest to hurry up a bit, and at the end of the day you need to have taken them somewhere. Not just been among them, doing whatever you do when you are shuffling forwards and backwards and round and round in circles....

Actually, I want to see a leader who changes Jack Watts' sense of urgency and self-confidence. I don't reckon bullying worked, so we need a leader who gets what's going on in these underperforming guys whose undoubted desire is to play well. I want to see a leader who can get inside the heads of our under-performers. These players need to be led - obviously. Nothing really wrong with that - like needing to be coached. But their being led or coached effectively only happen when there's a leader or a coach who sees exactly what needs to be done. Sees his team and understands what will motivate and energise them. If nobody at the club can do that, then we haven't yet found the sort of leader we need.

Our current problem is either the players (no change possible there at present, and hard to make huge gains in the off-season; so i hope that's not the only answer we can come up with), or it's the coaching (everything that could be done there has surely been done, and done well), or it's the on-field leadership that's failing. I'm going with leadership - the club needs to improve that area, through professional development of the incumbents, and probably through targeted recruiting (a la the recruiting of Ditterich to Melbourne, or Barassi to Carlton). Roos gets the players fired up and it lasts a bit, but out on the ground they rapidly wilt under pressure. The team leaders are out there...

Edited May 31, 201510 yr by robbiefrom13

Good leadership empowers those around them to get the best out of themselves.

Wrong.
Every serious loss we have had this year and last year Jones has been unsighted.
A true Captain rises above his obstacles when the heat is on
When the engine is under severe load...Jonesy is not the man. He is a dam good blue collar worker/soldier...

I'm inclined to agree. I love Jonesy but simply going through the motions isn't acceptable anymore. I expected him to go to another level this year but he's been very poor in all of our losses. Evidently when other players play poorly we crucify them but if our captain and "natural born leader" does it's okay. Granted he gives it his all but he needs to rise above and go to another level. He's been around for long enough now.

I think Jones' performances in our losses this year exemplify our main problem: we have poor leadership in key areas of the ground, which lead to us as a team struggling to impose ourselves on the scoreboard.

We can't win games with our midfield being crucified the way it is in our losses. We don't just get beaten, we get absolutely annihilated in very short bursts.

Against GWS and now against Port, they score 10-11 goals in a very short amount of time, almost as quickly as Geelong did in 2011. Had they started the match like that we'd be losing games by 100+.

That is endeavour, effort, maybe it's psychological, but we have a completely competent midfield, and I refuse to accept that it's as bad as the statistics show. I just think that Roos' "we don't play as a team" comments are particularly focused on the middle of the ground, where our mids aren't working together to keep control of the game and get it forward. Our transition falls off as soon as a team gets on a run and suddenly all of our mids are running slowly and can't play anymore. Why the drop-off?

Jones isn't why we're losing games. But he's part of the reason why we're not winning, if that makes sense.

He needs to go to another level to what we've seen in other years, because when he's winning B&Fs we're only winning 3-4 games a year. This year he's dropped off considerably and it's no surprise that when he does we get absolutely smashed in short bursts.

He is our leader and arguably one of if not our best player and we can't afford him to go quiet. We can't expect him to lead us to a win every week, but every time we put in performances like we did last night, it starts and ends in the middle. And that's his domain.

Him, Vince, Cross, H, they all have an obligation. Jones certainly isn't alone but he's also not immune from criticism. We need to turn a corner and so does he. Winning B&Fs in a craptastic team isn't going to win us games. He needs to go to another level. We need to demand that of him now. Because he and those around him have been going through the motions. Going through the motions for him is working very hard and being exceptional, sure, but there has to be another level. Otherwise we'll remain in neutral.

Edited May 31, 201510 yr by praha

obviously its about getting the weakest competitors out of the side, as we can replace their talents. but remember we are still rebuilding & still teaching & developing, so some will come good, & others never will; time is something we have, but patience is short.

rome didn't destroy itself in one week, & it wasn't rebuilt overnight; but it wyl happen.

I accept we had to rebuild, I accept we had to rid ourselves of dud players, I accept that the club had to bring in a A grade coaching team and get the off field right.

This rebuild and rebuild on top of a rebuild is taking far too long ........far too long........far too long!! I will not accept our teams continued inconsistency and poor efforts every other week. I pay good money to belong to this club and I'm just about had enough of it all.

How much does this club expect of it's supporters ....honestly this has to turn around quicker than it is.

Plan B for when the system goes pear-shaped.

Something simple. Something accountable. Something that is defensive but doesn't abandon all hope.

Well, I could even get behind an absolutely basic 1-to-1 match-up all over the ground at this point.