Fitzpatrick has just set the world record - total dud to superstar and back again in about 8 days

not calling you lot fickle or anything...

If it's wet then def he needs to make way.

A lot of talk here about half forwards and half backs, as though they were the reason we lost. We could have players vastly superior to Matt Jones, Howe, Watts and Bail in the side and we still would have lost. Our problem is in the middle of the ground.

Until Van Berg can run out a full game and not go missing for lengthy periods of time, Brayshaw is more experienced and also fitter, Pettracca has recovered from his knee, gained experience and is AFL fit and Tyson is over his knee problems and back in form. Until all those things occur, and Nat Jones and Vince are relegated to midfield support roles, we will continue to lose to better teams.

Pulling out your hair and gnashing your teeth about the likes of Bail, Matt Jones, Howe and Watts is pointless. A fit Salem and Kent might make ever so slight improvements to our overall performance, but the major problem has been and still is with our midfield. Our key mids at the moment are either not fully AFL ready (Brayshaw, VanBerg, Patracca) or not AFL size (Nat Jones and Vince).

Riley, Newton and a below 100% Tyson does not change the result on Saturday one bit imo.

Shuffling the deck chairs.

I disagree. its not just about the 4 guys in the centre. When there are several links in the chain of the 18 on the ground that are poor and not even getting a touch that makes the whole team look terrible.

We should not be reliant on 3 first year players, we have enouigh talent in the team to be competative

It is the 4 guys in the middle when the oppo keeps getting easy clearances out of the center.

It is the 4 guys in the middle when the oppo keeps getting easy clearances out of the center.

Remember the game in late 2012 where our centre bounce 4 were Spencer, Bail, McKenzie and Nicholson?

Those were the days.

Remember the game in late 2012 where our centre bounce 4 were Spencer, Bail, McKenzie and Nicholson?

Those were the days.

Put Morton and Evans on a wing each and I'm all yours.

Remember the game in late 2012 where our centre bounce 4 were Spencer, Bail, McKenzie and Nicholson?

Those were the days.

Ahhh, i like to call them the numb years.

Fitzpatrick has just set the world record - total dud to superstar and back again in about 8 days

not calling you lot fickle or anything...

it is what it is C&B

fitzy's not the first or last to be a plick teaser

I thought Fitzy was ok, he didn't really have a role to play, what could he do?

Out: titanic deckchairs

In: the same titanic deckchairs that were swapped out a week ago

Seriously though, Newton surely comes back in, we need his 1 goal a week if we want to have a chance of breaking 50 points.

Gold!

I thought Fitzy was ok, he didn't really have a role to play, what could he do?

Contribute. Impact. Chase hard. Compete hard. Execute a basic skill.

He failed.

We have many in the same boat. Far too many.

They pick and choose when they want to play.

Out: Watts, Bail, M Jones, Fitzpatrick

In: Newton, Tyson, Michie, Gawn

B: Jetta Dunn Garland

HB: Grimes McDonald Lumumba

C: Vince Jones Toumpas

HF: Howe Hogan Newton

F: Garlett Pedersen Gawn

R: Spencer vandenBerg Cross

I: Tyson Viney Brayshaw (Michie)

On a serious note I am going to 2nd this.

My only change would be the Toump starting or playing through the mid at this point in his career (maybe at any point!). Viney has to start in the middle to bolster and avoid any early blow out. The Pies will be looking to wipe us off the map out of the middle early and have the game wrapped up at half time with an unassailable lead (like last year...the year before that etc) so we need to at least be within cooee of them at half time to avoid a massacre and give ourselves an inkling of a sniff & hope.

If I see any sign of Bail, Fitz or Watts in this line up then I will know for sure that Roosey has caught the same bug as many Demon coaches before him and....gone completely nutz!

Edited June 1, 201510 yr by Rusty Nails

Contribute. Impact. Chase hard. Compete hard. Execute a basic skill.

He failed.

We have many in the same boat. Far too many.

They pick and choose when they want to play.

I agree with that, he had an assignment designated to him in the WB game, the PA game he was made to think too much.

I disagree. its not just about the 4 guys in the centre. When there are several links in the chain of the 18 on the ground that are poor and not even getting a touch that makes the whole team look terrible.

We should not be reliant on 3 first year players, we have enouigh talent in the team to be competative

It is the 4 guys in the middle when the oppo keeps getting easy clearances out of the center.

A good team has around 10 that can rotate through the middle. We only have maybe 6 at best to do the job of 10...2 are rookies, 1 other injured and another rookie as sub...our guys are knackered. To few doing the job of many.

It's not just the 4 when oppo gets easy clearances.

Edited June 1, 201510 yr by rjay

Not everyone needs a role to be able to contribute.

Take Hogan and Brayshaw for example. They are first year players, (even though Hogan has been at our club for two years) who consistently bring effort. Consistently.

Theyre both smart and clean footballers also. That is a big plus.

Far too many on our list either compete hard but lack in every other facet of the game, (McKenzie, Spencer, Bail).

Or they pick and choose when to compete whilst having handy attributes. (Watts, Howe, Garland etc).

Or you have a handful of NQR's who basically have a mix of all those negatives.

Which is where we find ourselves.

Not sure I'd include Garland in that lot, but agree with sentiment. Be interested to see who turns up to play against the very slick Collingwood midfield .

I just don't accept that players 'choose' when to play. Or just don't because they 'can't be arsed'.

Going to be very tough to get within 5-6 goals. The Pies run very hard and when they get on a roll and with the crowd behind them, this could turn into a real annihilation. We just don't have the answers for teams in the 1-5 bracket. It's no secret that the gap between the top, middle and bottom teams is as big as it's ever been. We'll be lucky to be within 5 goals, no matter who we bring in.

Edited June 1, 201510 yr by praha

Pretty sure last year was fairly tight until the stupid umpire disallowed that goal.

On a serious note I am going to 2nd this.

My only change would be the Toump starting or playing through the mid at this point in his career (maybe at any point!). Viney has to start in the middle to bolster and avoid any early blow out. The Pies will be looking to wipe us off the map out of the middle early and have the game wrapped up at half time with an unassailable lead (like last year...the year before that etc) so we need to at least be within cooee of them at half time to avoid a massacre and give ourselves an inkling of a sniff & hope.

If I see any sign of Bail, Fitz or Watts in this line up then I will know for sure that Roosey has caught the same bug as many Demon coaches before him and....gone completePretty

Been a while since we've had anything celebrate on QB weekend and seem to recall last year that it was five goals to three just before three quarter -time when Vince's goal was disallowed and JKH came on and wanted the ball on the wrong wing and we paid for it big time.

The two obvious outs are Bail and Matt Jones, but given they are both small forwards one of them might survive.

Against that is that they laid a combined one tackle v Port, so it may be just a case of finding a better, albeit slower, option - Newton and Riley were stiff last week, so at least one should come in and Tyson has to play if he's fit. Perhaps Viney could be used as a forward until halftime and then sent into middle when game is still hopefully on the line. I am willing to bet that Jack Viney would lay at least one tackle.

Sending Vandenberg back to the forward line again may seem like a step backwards, but as we all know the half forwards play high anyway and he adds forward pressure.

If you send Toump forward, he's too slow to lay a tackle, if you send Watts forward, he won't be aware that he should tackle and if you send Howey forward, he won't tackle unless the camera's on him.

As to our bigs, Fitzy went backwards last week and Gawn has been pressing for inclusion. Perhaps its time to make Pedo a major swingman playing down back on their rucks, up forward for a bit. By giving Gawny a go as a forward who rucks, it allows Hoges to go upfield every now and then just in case he gets starved of opportunity.

The other possible change gets down to whether Roosy wants to send Howey or Watts back to the VFL, but I suspect he won't want to make a statement this week given this is a big occasion game - for us anyway. Perhaps Howey could be sub, as he can play virtually anywhere when he comes on.

Out: Fitzy, Bail, M.Jones

In: Gawn, Tyson, Newton

B: Jetta (Fasolo) Tom Mc (Cloke), Garland (Goldsack)

HB: Lumumba (Elliott) Dunn (White) Grimes (Blair)

C: Cross (Sidebottom) Tyson (Pendles) Brayshaw (Varcoe)

HF: Viney (Seedsman) Hogan (Frost) Newton (Langdon)

F: Garlett (Williams) Gawn (Brown) vandenberg (Toovey)

Ru: Spencer (Grundy) Vince (Swan) N.Jones (Adams)

Int: Pedersen (Witts), Watts (Oxley), Toumpas (Crisp)

Sub: Howe (De Goey)

Been a while since we've had anything celebrate on QB weekend and seem to recall last year that it was five goals to three just before three quarter -time when Vince's goal was disallowed and JKH came on and wanted the ball on the wrong wing and we paid for it big time.

The two obvious outs are Bail and Matt Jones, but given they are both small forwards one of them might survive.

Against that is that they laid a combined one tackle v Port, so it may be just a case of finding a better, albeit slower, option - Newton and Riley were stiff last week, so at least one should come in and Tyson has to play if he's fit. Perhaps Viney could be used as a forward until halftime and then sent into middle when game is still hopefully on the line. I am willing to bet that Jack Viney would lay at least one tackle.

Sending Vandenberg back to the forward line again may seem like a step backwards, but as we all know the half forwards play high anyway and he adds forward pressure.

If you send Toump forward, he's too slow to lay a tackle, if you send Watts forward, he won't be aware that he should tackle and if you send Howey forward, he won't tackle unless the camera's on him.

As to our bigs, Fitzy went backwards last week and Gawn has been pressing for inclusion. Perhaps its time to make Pedo a major swingman playing down back on their rucks, up forward for a bit. By giving Gawny a go as a forward who rucks, it allows Hoges to go upfield every now and then just in case he gets starved of opportunity.

The other possible change gets down to whether Roosy wants to send Howey or Watts back to the VFL, but I suspect he won't want to make a statement this week given this is a big occasion game - for us anyway. Perhaps Howey could be sub, as he can play virtually anywhere when he comes on.

Out: Fitzy, Bail, M.Jones

In: Gawn, Tyson, Newton

B: Jetta (Fasolo) Tom Mc (Cloke), Garland (Goldsack)

HB: Lumumba (Elliott) Dunn (White) Grimes (Blair)

C: Cross (Sidebottom) Tyson (Pendles) Brayshaw (Varcoe)

HF: Viney (Seedsman) Hogan (Frost) Newton (Langdon)

F: Garlett (Williams) Gawn (Brown) vandenberg (Toovey)

Ru: Spencer (Grundy) Vince (Swan) N.Jones (Adams)

Int: Pedersen (Witts), Watts (Oxley), Toumpas (Crisp)

Sub: Howe (De Goey)

Gawn is not a forward who rucks. Can't do it, need to be the pea...like a lot of rucks.

It's either him or Spencer...

Gawn is not a forward who rucks. Can't do it, need to be the pea...like a lot of rucks.

It's either him or Spencer...

Where do you think he's been playing in the VFL - basically in the goalsquare and then on the ball as relief for Spencer/Jamar.

He's got a bit of forward instincts, often floating back behind his opponent and he's so tall he presents matchup difficulties.

I'm certainly not saying he's a superstar and he's prone to clangers, but if you've watched the VFL a bit, you would have seen that he pulls down quite a few marks and is a long-ball option.

Where do you think he's been playing in the VFL - basically in the goalsquare and then on the ball as relief for Spencer/Jamar.

He's got a bit of forward instincts, often floating back behind his opponent and he's so tall he presents matchup difficulties.

I'm certainly not saying he's a superstar and he's prone to clangers, but if you've watched the VFL a bit, you would have seen that he pulls down quite a few marks and is a long-ball option.

Dee last time I saw Gawn play forward he couldn't hit the side of a barn door other than within about 15 out directly in front. If he has to be in the team as a swap for Fitz then has to be as back up for Spence only when he is rested for short stints surely?

Im not sure why people want players who cant kick straight to rest or play a forward role. I thought the days of resting ruckman in the forward line was from a bygone era anyway. The exception might be Sandilands & Nic Nat but they are both exceptional in these alternate roles.

Gawn is not a forward who rucks. Can't do it, need to be the pea...like a lot of rucks.

It's either him or Spencer...

100% agree. I'd like to see him getting a similar string of games like Spencer has gotten as the no1 ruck over the past 2 years. If he got that i think we would see our solution to our ruck problems (my strong opinion).

Where do you think he's been playing in the VFL - basically in the goalsquare and then on the ball as relief for Spencer/Jamar.

He's got a bit of forward instincts, often floating back behind his opponent and he's so tall he presents matchup difficulties.

I'm certainly not saying he's a superstar and he's prone to clangers, but if you've watched the VFL a bit, you would have seen that he pulls down quite a few marks and is a long-ball option.

I think he is the best ruckman on our list who can play forward (Jamar [5 goals once] & Spencer cant), But we are too tall with him down there, especially with another poster saying it will be wet next monday.

Spencer - cant ruck, play forward or play loose behind the ball, can chase (speed) and can tackle (so think a McKenzie but fast). Ps how good was his lace out hit two weeks ago to pederson lol.

Gawn - can play forward, loose behind the ball, Is TALL so can actually mark if given a 1v1 and can tap to advantage (e.g. tap to vince and goal last year), but is not fast & as he has been played forward almost all of his career is still lacking endurance (as a result of spencer and Jamar always playing no1 ruck no matter the level).

If we play team 1v1 footy Gawn is an asset in the forward line due to his height, but we dont play it very often/we flood back so much that the kick forward would be to Gawn 1v2/3, and when we let the opposition have one loose in defense we get hammered (e.g. port, i'm pretty sure it was 1v1 first quarter and i never saw 1v1 again after that - all year i want us to play 1v1 no matter the opposition or score).

I think spencer is doing well, but i can't help but think he is inferior to Gawn in the ruck and up forward 9 i think Gawn would get more posessions as that link big who can mark outside 50 from defense and handball off to the runner going by..

Oh well, look forward to selections this week and see you all monday Go dees!

The Uncontested Possession numbers are the most concerning stat to me - the players are still suffering from inertia.

Roos needs to solve this issue and quickly - we were up in UPs in the first quarter before putting the cue in the rack for a reason unknown to everyone seemingly.

We can criticise the deck chairs all we like but this is new to this group - enterprising play used to be impossible, now it is like a malfunctioning faucet - it comes and goes with no discernible rhyme or reason.

I can handle getting smashed in the clearances - we have a terrible midfield - Vanders and Brayshaw already becoming the 4th and 5th best mids at the club is testament to that, but I don't understand how spread and pushing into space and desire to run and be bold can be so inconsistent. Embarrassingly inconsistent.

I like Gawn, I always have but for the moment Spencer deserves to hold his place.