THIS GLOOM & DOOM IS RIDICULOUS

[Umpire Please 120]

Let's just finish this year off and get what every we can out of it !

Assess the list and move who we need too and keep those that we want. My concern is that if it takes two to three years to play together as a group and understand the game plan then moving on 7-10 players each year adds on more time to the best 18/22 reaching the levels of success that we all want.

Needs to be a "line in the sand" and we stick with the core group 15/20 and get off their case and let the coach , coach and the players play. Look at the Doggies they are ahead of us because most of them played togther through the VFL includung a Flag last year and had a great development coach in Brendon McCartney who is now at Melbourne.

A Reserves side in the VFL would be a great step forward in developing a better club and keep the players together, playing for each other and the jumper also!

[nutbean 8,838]

We live in a 24 hour news cycle, so things are often painted as worse than they are or better than they are.

Interstaters don't get to hear all of the commentary, but a few weeks ago our harder edge was being lauded. "Experts" saw a new and tougher Bernie Vince, while Brayshaw, Newton and vanDemon were revelations in the hardness stakes. They were the perfect complement to Viney, Jones and the out of form Tyson. But things can change quickly on the back of a couple of poor performances.

The midfield is the key. On the days when the midfield clicks we will still have some very good results this year. Unfortunately key injuries will effect us more than seasoned teams, but with Hogan at one end, McDonald at the other and Brayshaw, Petracca, Viney and Salem in between the foundations are most definitely in place.

But the news cycle won't always be to our liking or making.

nailed it....

The Richmond game was on the 24th April - look at posts from that date...

[nutbean 8,838]

You are all missing the point. Its the basics. tackling running, effort, pressure etc etc.

We fail miserably. That is not talent. Its intent effort and desire. We see it in glimpses but mostly we lack on field leadership.

We also lack players who can get the pill 30 times a match. Haven't had one this year. Last one to do it consistently was Junior. That's the thing with players like Barlow - they know how toget he pill.

You are remembering Jnr too fondly - his best season was an average of 23 disposals and his career average was a touch under 18. (Tyson,Viney and Jones have higher disposal averages than Junior. Daniel Cross has the best average of all current players - I do note that possessions are cheaper and easier than in Juniors day)

But you are 100% right in bringing up Junior as the example of on-field leadership and every week brought the basics - tackling, running, effort, intent, desire and pressure. The closest we have had is Nathan Jones with Cross a close second.

[jnrmac 20,185]

So all the things you mentioned above were not evident in our wins over GC and the Tigers, or in our darn good performance over in Adelaide?

We've seen it in more than glimpses, but the thing we lack is consistency. We can absolutely do the things you mentioned above, and to say we fail miserably at them is a gross over-statement, but we do lack that leadership to keep us on track and to put those things into place on a consistent basis.

In the GC game we got out a 32pt lead by early 2nd quarter and then saw GC beat us for nearly 2 qrts before we pulled away. It was a good win but with solid lapses in our effort as noted by the coach.

In the Richmond game we put in a good effort for most of the game.

IN the game against GWS we left the ground just before half time and never returned.

Against Adelaide our effort was good for the whole game I thought.

Against Freo we gave effort for about half a game

Against the Swans it was appalling. Ditto the Hawks.

So yes we have seen glimpses of it but the Adelaide game is what I want to see more of. Solid 4 qtr effort and if we lose then we lose. But from what I have seen we still have a massively soft underbelly and too many senior players go missing when needed. That is mental and all about desire and intent.

So I largely agree with your post but give them way less slack than you do because effort is something they can and should bring every minute of every week. Not when they feel like it. And if players like Brayshaw and Vineyt can do it week in week out that is a real indictment on our senior players.

[jnrmac 20,185]

You are remembering Jnr too fondly - his best season was an average of 23 disposals and his career average was a touch under 18. (Tyson,Viney and Jones have higher disposal averages than Junior. Daniel Cross has the best average of all current players - I do note that possessions are cheaper and easier than in Juniors day)

But you are 100% right in bringing up Junior as the example of on-field leadership and every week brought the basics - tackling, running, effort, intent, desire and pressure. The closest we have had is Nathan Jones with Cross a close second.

My bias is showing! I actually struggled to think of a player for us who does it week in week out. And frankly that is an indictment.

[Tangled up in Red and Blue 31]

It is dead set ridiculous how negative

so many supporters are being.

We are one win behind Port Adelaide, Geelong and Richmond, who each played finals last year.

The five games we have lost were against five of the current top six sides.

The thrashing everyone is so up in arms about was at the hands of last year's premiers, who thrashed the Bulldogs a month earlier - and everyone loves them.

Get a grip.

Yes, we played poorly on the weekend. But look at the bigger picture.

Talking about the team like it is hopeless only makes us all think that it is hopeless.

Mind you, if we don't bounce back in the next few weeks, I'll take it all back and be the first through the door of that online knife store.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Tangled up in Red and Blue

[stuie 7,374]

It is dead set ridiculous how negative

so many supporters are being.

We are one win behind Port Adelaide, Geelong and Richmond, who each played finals last year.

The five games we have lost were against five of the current top six sides.

The thrashing everyone is so up in arms about was at the hands of last year's premiers, who thrashed the Bulldogs a month earlier - and everyone loves them.

Get a grip.

Yes, we played poorly on the weekend. But look at the bigger picture.

Talking about the team like it is hopeless only makes us all think that it is hopeless.

Mind you, if we don't bounce back in the next few weeks, I'll take it all back and be the first through the door of that online knife store.

It's not the actual results people are upset about. It's the fact that all of the non-talent related issues (effort, spirit, footy basics) are STILL happening.

That is the bigger picture.

[Tangled up in Red and Blue 31]

Yet after the Richmond game everyone was praising our hardness and effort. Or were they not? That was less than a month ago.

We showed it against Richmond and Adelaide, but not against Hawthorn.

I don't think we've seen enough one way or the other to warrant the top-end doom and gloom.

[Soidee 1,496]

It is dead set ridiculous how negative

so many supporters are being.

We are one win behind Port Adelaide, Geelong and Richmond, who each played finals last year.

The five games we have lost were against five of the current top six sides.

The thrashing everyone is so up in arms about was at the hands of last year's premiers, who thrashed the Bulldogs a month earlier - and everyone loves them.

Get a grip.

Yes, we played poorly on the weekend. But look at the bigger picture.

Talking about the team like it is hopeless only makes us all think that it is hopeless.

Mind you, if we don't bounce back in the next few weeks, I'll take it all back and be the first through the door of that online knife store.

Tangled - you make some valid points about the bigger picture etc..and wow oh wow us Dees supporters have been looking at that bigger picture for a lifetime and I am still waiting for it to come to life. I have no doubt the club is going in the right direction, however I watched that putrid game on the weekend and it makes me vomit to watch experienced AFL players who are supposed to set examples just give up drop their heads and show stuff all effort. I can name 6-10 players on our list who are being gifted games and they are on big money.....this is garbage and they need to be given a size 10 up their collective rear ends.

[Emerald 1,744]

Keeping my head up after sitting through the whole game last Saturday at the MCG,not focusing on the doom and gloom.But I shall be supporting the Dees from the couch this weekend,paying money to go see them would feel like spoiling a misbehaving kid.

[Wormburner 674]

Buck up guys the slashing of wrists since the Hawthorn debacle is getting silly.

Lets be realistic. We won 4 games last year & hopefully can get 6-8 wins this year. We started the season well & showed great improvement. Then injuries - Jetta, Kent, JKH, Viney, Salem, Hogan. Then a number of players badly out of form - Watts, Jamar, Howe, Dunn, Gawn, Dawes. On top of this our better mids N Jones & Tyson both look a bit proppy.

You take effectively 8+ players out of our best 22 & of course we are going to struggle.

Look at poor Stretch - once in the better players at Casey & straight into the Firsts. At the Swans he would need to do this 5 or 6 times before getting promoted.

While last week was disappointing we will continue to struggle until we get a decent, in form group of 22 players out there. I still reckon we can take a step forward & win 6-8 games.

Yep, been thinking exactly same thing.

Chin up Demonlanders, always next week.

[loges 6,767]

Yep, been thinking exactly same thing.

Chin up Demonlanders, always next week.

What this team needs in spades is leaders!

[Dr. Gonzo 24,296]

The problem is we are relying on a few for effort and aggression, not that those few are injured.

All of the players you mentioned played when GWS smashed us.

Of course that is also the problem - but my point was we have copped injuries to the players we can realistically least afford to miss games.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

Take out 7-8 top players from the top sides and see how they go! How would Dockers fare without Fyfe, Mundy, Pavlich, Barlow, Sandilands, Mayne, Hill and Johnson? Not too well I would suspect. Too many doomsayers on this forum. Or do we call them Fair-weather supporters? On the band wagon when we win chuck us into the creek when we lose. Grrrrrrrr!

[junk 342]

GORGORTH…….. an excellant report. I have supported the Dees for 50 years,No.1 Messiah Ron Barrassi won premierships with North and Carlton…. in 5 years at the helm he manged no finals and a wooden spoon.Messiah No.2 Paul Roos looks highly likely to

be a master under achiever, certainly lacks innovation. We may have recruited some good players in Garlett,Frost,Lumumba,Hogan,T.Mac,Salem,Kent,however the rest have vanished off the radar like the missing Malaysian airplane two years ago.

I wonder if the Dees are trying to make a point to the the AFL that we deserve a priority pick……..6 to 8 wins would be a fail for a coach who gets 1.6 Million per annum in his 2nd year. Did Barcelona win last week?

Players should stop shooting off their trap i.e Dawes stating the Hawks are for the taking…… I need a vomit bag a.s.a.p if not sooner. Dees players shut the F.ck up.

[mo64 5,881]

Take out 7-8 top players from the top sides and see how they go! How would Dockers fare without Fyfe, Mundy, Pavlich, Barlow, Sandilands, Mayne, Hill and Johnson? Not too well I would suspect. Too many doomsayers on this forum. Or do we call them Fair-weather supporters? On the band wagon when we win chuck us into the creek when we lose. Grrrrrrrr!

Get serious. Hawthorn were missing A graders in Hodge and Lewis and B graders in Lake, Smith and McEvoy. We were missing C graders in Viney and Jetta, and good young players in Hogan and Kent. If both teams had their best 22, we would have lost by 130 points.

I wish people would stop making excuses. The only chance we had of being competitive on the scoreboard was if Hawthorn were complacent. After coming off a shock loss to GWS and Dawes shooting his mouth off, that was never going to happen.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,246]

Buck up guys the slashing of wrists since the Hawthorn debacle is getting silly.

Lets be realistic. We won 4 games last year & hopefully can get 6-8 wins this year. We started the season well & showed great improvement. Then injuries - Jetta, Kent, JKH, Viney, Salem, Hogan. Then a number of players badly out of form - Watts, Jamar, Howe, Dunn, Gawn, Dawes. On top of this our better mids N Jones & Tyson both look a bit proppy.

You take effectively 8+ players out of our best 22 & of course we are going to struggle.

Look at poor Stretch - once in the better players at Casey & straight into the Firsts. At the Swans he would need to do this 5 or 6 times before getting promoted.

While last week was disappointing we will continue to struggle until we get a decent, in form group of 22 players out there. I still reckon we can take a step forward & win 6-8 games.

A reasoned post Cranky but the Doomsayers should not be brushed off as "silly". The obvious fact (from simple observation) is that our effort against Hawthorn was as bad as anything dished up in the last 10 years. Forget injuries, forget any other excuses - it was [censored] pure and simple. We were brushed aside , denied the ball and humiliated - fact.

So those among us who have watched similar floggings over the years have valid reasons for our negativity.

We all wait for the time when we can go to the footy with some hope of a win - atm we cannot because we are [censored] -fact.

Initially I thought we might win 7 games this year - now I'm not certain. Frankly I don't see any wins on the immediate horizon - I hope I'm wrong!!

[Dr. Gonzo 24,296]

Get serious. Hawthorn were missing A graders in Hodge and Lewis and B graders in Lake, Smith and McEvoy. We were missing C graders in Viney and Jetta, and good young players in Hogan and Kent. If both teams had their best 22, we would have lost by 130 points.

I wish people would stop making excuses. The only chance we had of being competitive on the scoreboard was if Hawthorn were complacent. After coming off a shock loss to GWS and Dawes shooting his mouth off, that was never going to happen.

Yeah but injuries have an exponential effect depending on a teams position. Hawthorn are the reigning back to back premiers and widely tipped to three-peat, of course they can cover a few injuries more than the side who only won 10 games in the last 3 years.

[MadAsHell 4,215]

Get serious. Hawthorn were missing A graders in Hodge and Lewis and B graders in Lake, Smith and McEvoy. We were missing C graders in Viney and Jetta, and good young players in Hogan and Kent. If both teams had their best 22, we would have lost by 130 points.

I wish people would stop making excuses. The only chance we had of being competitive on the scoreboard was if Hawthorn were complacent. After coming off a shock loss to GWS and Dawes shooting his mouth off, that was never going to happen.

Ludicrous comments!

We were missing 7 first choice players through injury on the weekend:

Frost

Jetta

Hogan

Kent

Viney

Trengove

Petracca

Two others for other reasons:

Jamar

Watts

One of our first choice players injured themselves early on:

Salem

And one of the first players who would have come in to replace some of those injured, was also missing through injury:

Kennedy-Harris

Saturday was unacceptable, don't get me wrong, and yes Hawthorn were missing players also. However the A & B Grade players they had out were replaced by other B and C+ players. Given some of the B Grade players we had out were replaced by C-, D & E Grade players (and we had more out) then we feel their loss a lot more then Hawthorn felt the loss of their outs.

Our best 22 v their best 22. I tell you what I'd be more concerned about a 70 point loss to them then I was about our 105 point loss on Saturday. I expect a big improvement in our effort this weekend, however to disregard the circumstances of Saturday's loss is pure wrist slashing drivel.

[daisycutter 29,738]

A reasoned post Cranky but the Doomsayers should not be brushed off as "silly". The obvious fact (from simple observation) is that our effort against Hawthorn was as bad as anything dished up in the last 10 years. Forget injuries, forget any other excuses - it was [censored] pure and simple. We were brushed aside , denied the ball and humiliated - fact.

So those among us who have watched similar floggings over the years have valid reasons for our negativity.

We all wait for the time when we can go to the footy with some hope of a win - atm we cannot because we are [censored] -fact.

Initially I thought we might win 7 games this year - now I'm not certain. Frankly I don't see any wins on the immediate horizon - I hope I'm wrong!!

given you are invariably wrong, bbo, i suppose i should be optimistic

but why do i feel so bitter?

[stuie 7,374]

Ludicrous comments!

We were missing 7 first choice players through injury on the weekend:

Frost

Jetta

Hogan

Kent

Viney

Trengove

Petracca

Two others for other reasons:

Jamar

Watts

One of our first choice players injured themselves early on:

Salem

And one of the first players who would have come in to replace some of those injured, was also missing through injury:

Kennedy-Harris

Saturday was unacceptable, don't get me wrong, and yes Hawthorn were missing players also. However the A & B Grade players they had out were replaced by other B and C+ players. Given some of the B Grade players we had out were replaced by C-, D & E Grade players (and we had more out) then we feel their loss a lot more then Hawthorn felt the loss of their outs.

Our best 22 v their best 22. I tell you what I'd be more concerned about a 70 point loss to them then I was about our 105 point loss on Saturday. I expect a big improvement in our effort this weekend, however to disregard the circumstances of Saturday's loss is pure wrist slashing drivel.

Circumstances and injuries are no excuse for effort and footy basics. They are only an excuse for lack of talent.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

In the GC game we got out a 32pt lead by early 2nd quarter and then saw GC beat us for nearly 2 qrts before we pulled away. It was a good win but with solid lapses in our effort as noted by the coach.

In the Richmond game we put in a good effort for most of the game.

IN the game against GWS we left the ground just before half time and never returned.

Against Adelaide our effort was good for the whole game I thought.

Against Freo we gave effort for about half a game

Against the Swans it was appalling. Ditto the Hawks.

So yes we have seen glimpses of it but the Adelaide game is what I want to see more of. Solid 4 qtr effort and if we lose then we lose. But from what I have seen we still have a massively soft underbelly and too many senior players go missing when needed. That is mental and all about desire and intent.

So I largely agree with your post but give them way less slack than you do because effort is something they can and should bring every minute of every week. Not when they feel like it. And if players like Brayshaw and Vineyt can do it week in week out that is a real indictment on our senior players.

A good, reasoned response. Thanks jnr.

I agree re: the senior players and their effort. Jones gives his all each week, and if Brayshaw and Viney can do it, why can't others? I hate the 'injured' excuse, but someone like Tyson, for me, is not 100%. We've seen what he is capable of, and they aren't just glimpses either. We've seen him string together numerous terrific games, and we aren't seeing that this year. Is he getting more attention or is he carrying an injury? God knows we need his clearance work and gut running abilities at the moment as we simply can't cover that.

This weekends game against the Dogs will tell us more. Do we respond, or do we throw in the towel early? I'm nervous but quietly confident we can rectify what happened last weekend.

[mo64 5,881]

Ludicrous comments!

We were missing 7 first choice players through injury on the weekend:

Frost

Jetta

Hogan

Kent

Viney

Trengove

Petracca

Two others for other reasons:

Jamar

Watts

Ludicrous is an appropriate comment. 1 player who's playing future is uncertain and another who hasn't played senior football at any level, are considered best 22. Yeah right.

And Jamar and Watts are out of the team due to form, and neither have demonstrated that they are consistent AFL players.

We've seen performances like last week every year for the past 8, and we haven't turned things around. What makes you think that this year is any different?

[Dr. Gonzo 24,296]

Circumstances and injuries are no excuse for effort and footy basics. They are only an excuse for lack of talent.

No one is disputing that.

[What 18,810]

You cant blame there for being doom and gloom after the last 3 weeks and yet another 100 point belting.

I guess we all thought those beltings were in the past, but not yet.

Having said that if there is one club can least afford to have 8 or 9 of its best 22 out, it is the Demons.