Hogan looking great, BUT!

[Moonshadow 17,677]

I am very much for real and have no desire to FYD at all.

First the thread is about why he misses goals. It is not confined to his kicking action as you state. It may well be that is a problem, I don't know.

I just raise the simple logical question: IF what he does works OK in the VFL, what is different in the AFL? As far as I recall the goals are the same width in both leagues.

But given you replies to date, I can see you will never answer that question. A coach might ponder it however. I'd respect your position more if you simply said the posters saying he kicked OK in the VFL were wrong.

Actually, that's not correct sue. Read the op again and you'll see the thread is about Jessie's kicking action in general, not about why he "misses goals". Sure, as a key forward many of his kicks will be at goal, and if you are happy with his kicking action, then good for you. I assume you watched all or most of his Casey games to support the premise of your VFL vs AFL question. That you are still seeking an answer shows what others think of it. For the record, I've never liked his kicking action, when I watched VFL, at training or now at AFL level. But I'm more interested in what he is currently doing, which is what a coach might spend more time 'pondering'. You've already said you have no idea about his kicking action, that's the topic I have been repeatedly commenting upon because it responds to the op. As I've said before, I hope his kicking action is streamlined at some point in the next 18 mths to continue to improve his effectiveness. No urgency ATM. Love what the guy brings to the club, he looks to have a great future and like all AFL footballers will work hard to improve his game, including kicking.

As for you not respecting my position, I'm truly devastated.

My last post to you on this.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Moonshadow

[picket fence 17,645]

I am very much for real and have no desire to FYD at all.

First the thread is about why he misses goals. It is not confined to his kicking action as you state. It may well be that is a problem, I don't know.

I just raise the simple logical question: IF what he does works OK in the VFL, what is different in the AFL? As far as I recall the goals are the same width in both leagues.

But given you replies to date, I can see you will never answer that question. A coach might ponder it however. I'd respect your position more if you simply said the posters saying he kicked OK in the VFL were wrong.

Interesting , I started this thread because in my opinion I have noticed that his approach when running in for a set shot is not fluid.

As I was from a Physical Education Background, I can reveal that there are several aspects to the biomechanics of kicking a footy.

It is irrelevant whether it is a set shot for goal or a fieldkick. Both actions should be the same but for many players they are not!

For those who care to delve further, please read on.

Before analysing the drop punt as a biomechanical breakdown, some time must be awarded to a particular factor associated with a set shot which is unlike the drop punt used in play for example an on the run pass. Unlike most drop punts used in the game of AFL, the set shot which is only awarded to the player by the umpire if they have taken a mark or received a free kick close enough to goal to convert. The set shot offers the player the time (30secs) required and the space (10m) from any other player to perform, the perfect kick albeit under pressure from opposing players, the crowd and the situation. Speed, velocity and acceleration are used in a linear motion as the player uses a run up approach to perform the kick. Using a run up on a set shot is popular among footballers and has been for some time to build up forward momentum that can be transferred into the kicking style making the ball travel further and with more control over the kicks accuracy provided the players sequence of technique ensures a sound balanced approach, ball drop and follow through.

Matthew Lloyd, considered one of the best set shot kicks at goal of all time, angled out slightly in his approach, importantly though he took three straightened steps before the kick to enable him to balance his kicking technique resulting in him running in a straight line as he kicked the ball. Some of the other features of Lloyd’s kick were the consistency of his routine and his technique (Ball, 2011). Other players who regularly play these forward positions sometimes use a curved approach but this leads to greater side to side errors in the kick.

Technique The sequential movement of kicking the ball accurately for goal by the athlete is called technique. Players who are able to regularly achieve successful outcomes of the kicking motion will often have sound technique (Ball, 2008). Understanding the key essential biomechanical principals that are involved is essential to achieving such sound technique that allow for consistent performance and results. A good technique is also often the result of fluent timing allowing for proper balance, distribution of power, a large range of motion, keeping your head still and dropping the ball correctly. The fluent and efficient use of timing with all these factors is extremely important to the kinetic link principle as the correct sequencing results in maximum velocity of foot impact. Early or late segments will reduce foot velocity resulting in a potential poor performance of the kick.

There are several things a footballer can do to improve the accuracy and distance from the kick when kicking a drop punt set shot for goal. Power, range of motion, balance and technique are the major factors in kicking accurately for goal in a game. Players can work on either reducing or shifting the mass in their legs in order to increase the power produced, this can be done by use of strengthening and conditioning exercises concentrated on large and small muscle groups in the athlete’s leg. They can also use flexibility exercises to increase the range of motion in the hips which allows the force produced in the leg swing phase to be applied over a longer time increasing the power produced. Improving core strength will help to produce balance and ensure the power being transferred into the ball is maximised. The final thing a player can do is continually practice. Just like any other skill, practice and continuous exposure to the skill acquisition process is an athlete’s best opportunity to improve.

Ball, K. (2008). Biomechanical considerations of distance kicking in Australian Rules football. Sports Biomechanics 7, 10-23.

Ball, K. (2011). Victoria University, The Conversation, Centimetre Perfect: A quest for flawless goal kicking in the AFL, Melbourne.

Blazevich, A. (2012). Sports Biomechanics The Basics (2 ed.). London Bloomsbury.

Coachesinfo. (2012). Kicking. from http://www.coachesinfo.com/index.php?option=com_content&%20id=366&%20Itemid=188

Rath, D. (unknown date). Biomechanics Of Kicking. http://www.ulstergaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/biomechanics-of-kicking-taken-from-afl.pdf

It may be technique, it may be nerves, it just may be an aberration to the norm, as has been pointed out from followers of Hogan's form for Casey.

I believe we do have a potential champion on our hands and I hope that what I witnessed recently is JUST an aberration. I'm sure the club will take steps to rectify his action if it deems it necessary! I, too think he will kick multiple goals particularly if he gets good supply and has a tried and trusted kicking action which will serve him well for the rest of his career!

Edited April 22, 2015 by picket fence

[sue 9,146]

Actually, that's not correct sue. Read the op again and you'll see the thread is about Jessie's kicking action in general, not about why he "misses goals". Sure, as a key forward many of his kicks will be at goal, and if you are happy with his kicking action, then good for you. I assume you watched all or most of his Casey games to support the premise of your VFL vs AFL question. That you are still seeking an answer shows what others think of it. For the record, I've never liked his kicking action, when I watched VFL, at training or now at AFL level. But I'm more interested in what he is currently doing, which is what a coach might spend more time 'pondering'. You've already said you have no idea about his kicking action, that's the topic I have been repeatedly commenting upon because it responds to the op. As I've said before, I hope his kicking action is streamlined at some point in the next 18 mths to continue to improve his effectiveness. No urgency ATM. Love what the guy brings to the club, he looks to have a great future and like all AFL footballers will work hard to improve his game, including kicking.

As for you not respecting my position, I'm truly devastated.

My last post to you on this.

Glad you are not devastated. Sure the OP focussed on his technique, but his choice of subject title was open to wider interpretation and some posters did do so. Regardless, the question I raised does address the technique issue. I was asking if his technique (or whatever) was good enough to kick well in the VFL as some posters claimed, then why not in the AFL.

You really don't read what I wrote - look at the sentence in bold and compare it to what I've actually written. I have repeatedly said my premise relied on the opinion of those posters who had commented positively on his VFL performance. That should have indicated to you that I wasn't relying on my personal observations at VFL matches. Glad to read that you finally saw that the question I posed could logically be answered by you stating you disagreed with those who thought it was good in the VFL. Fair enough. Likewise if his kicking wasn't good in the VFL, it is clear that I don't have to invoke nerves to explain why it is also bad in the AFL.

I will join you in not posting more and wasting others reader's time over this.

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

Don't understand why he need a thirty metre run up from 20 out almost dead in front Vs the crows. He has a nice kicking action when he is kicking from CHF. He only needs a few steps to dob a set shot. Some players, like Hogan, change their routine of kicking when in front of goal. There is no need to. Pick a landmark behind the goals and kick it as if you were passing to the landmark.

[Wilbur 447]

Looks like he just rushed he usual routine and some of you are carrying on like its the end of days.

6 goals in 3 games for rookie is a fine effort

[Lucifers Hero 40,375]

Heeney is talked about as a lay-down misere for the 2015 Rising Star Award winner. More and more Jesse's name is being put right up there. Doesn't have a nomination yet but has 3 good games.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/melbourne-demons/dont-forget-about-demon-in-rising-star-conversation-20150422-1mr2qo.html

Lets hope he can have a great of footy year and have fun!

Edited April 22, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[Pates 9,661]

Heeney is talked about as a lay-down misere for the 2015 Rising Star Award winner. More and more Jesse's name is being put right up there. Doesn't have a nomination yet but has 3 good games.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/melbourne-demons/dont-forget-about-demon-in-rising-star-conversation-20150422-1mr2qo.html

Lets hope he can have a great of footy year and have fun!

I have a feeling about this week, I think he's been building towards a big one and the tigers feel like a good fit to get it done.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

I though jack Martin deserved the nomination more than heeney

Heeney 10 touches 4 goals

Martin 22 touches 3 goals 2 behinds

[DemonWorshipper 304]

I though jack Martin deserved the nomination more than heeney

Heeney 10 touches 4 goals

Martin 22 touches 3 goals 2 behinds

Martin is not eligible as he had played more than 10 games before this season.

[Bendigo Demon 115]

The first time I saw Jesse kick for goal, his alignment and where he held the ball were as if he was a left footer. I think that all he needs to do is work on his technique slightly and he will be fine. While everybody seems to rate Matthew Lloyd, I would also rate Jason Dunstall very highly regarded for his kicking technique. He also appears to be a good teacher and have an excellent understanding of the game. I realise he is strongly aligned to Hawthorn but appears happy to help out at other clubs.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Bendigo Demon

[hardtack 10,654]

The first time I saw Jesse kick for goal, his alignment and where he held the ball were as if he was a left footer. I think that all he needs to do is work on his technique slightly and he will be fine. While everybody seems to rate Matthew Lloyd, I would also rate Jason Dunstall very highly regarding his technique. He also appears to be a good teacher and have an excellent understanding of the game. I realise he is strongly aligned to Hawthorn but appears happy to help out at other clubs.

Why not just have him run through his technique with Jack Watts? I know a lot of people here don't rate Jack Watts, but his kicking (generally and for goal) is pretty hard to fault.

Edited April 23, 2015 by hardtack

[Bendigo Demon 115]

Interesting , I started this thread because in my opinion I have noticed that his approach when running in for a set shot is not fluid.

As I was from a Physical Education Background, I can reveal that there are several aspects to the biomechanics of kicking a footy.

It is irrelevant whether it is a set shot for goal or a fieldkick. Both actions should be the same but for many players they are not!

For those who care to delve further, please read on.

Before analysing the drop punt as a biomechanical breakdown, some time must be awarded to a particular factor associated with a set shot which is unlike the drop punt used in play for example an on the run pass. Unlike most drop punts used in the game of AFL, the set shot which is only awarded to the player by the umpire if they have taken a mark or received a free kick close enough to goal to convert. The set shot offers the player the time (30secs) required and the space (10m) from any other player to perform, the perfect kick albeit under pressure from opposing players, the crowd and the situation. Speed, velocity and acceleration are used in a linear motion as the player uses a run up approach to perform the kick. Using a run up on a set shot is popular among footballers and has been for some time to build up forward momentum that can be transferred into the kicking style making the ball travel further and with more control over the kicks accuracy provided the players sequence of technique ensures a sound balanced approach, ball drop and follow through.

Matthew Lloyd, considered one of the best set shot kicks at goal of all time, angled out slightly in his approach, importantly though he took three straightened steps before the kick to enable him to balance his kicking technique resulting in him running in a straight line as he kicked the ball. Some of the other features of Lloyd’s kick were the consistency of his routine and his technique (Ball, 2011). Other players who regularly play these forward positions sometimes use a curved approach but this leads to greater side to side errors in the kick.

Technique The sequential movement of kicking the ball accurately for goal by the athlete is called technique. Players who are able to regularly achieve successful outcomes of the kicking motion will often have sound technique (Ball, 2008). Understanding the key essential biomechanical principals that are involved is essential to achieving such sound technique that allow for consistent performance and results. A good technique is also often the result of fluent timing allowing for proper balance, distribution of power, a large range of motion, keeping your head still and dropping the ball correctly. The fluent and efficient use of timing with all these factors is extremely important to the kinetic link principle as the correct sequencing results in maximum velocity of foot impact. Early or late segments will reduce foot velocity resulting in a potential poor performance of the kick.

There are several things a footballer can do to improve the accuracy and distance from the kick when kicking a drop punt set shot for goal. Power, range of motion, balance and technique are the major factors in kicking accurately for goal in a game. Players can work on either reducing or shifting the mass in their legs in order to increase the power produced, this can be done by use of strengthening and conditioning exercises concentrated on large and small muscle groups in the athlete’s leg. They can also use flexibility exercises to increase the range of motion in the hips which allows the force produced in the leg swing phase to be applied over a longer time increasing the power produced. Improving core strength will help to produce balance and ensure the power being transferred into the ball is maximised. The final thing a player can do is continually practice. Just like any other skill, practice and continuous exposure to the skill acquisition process is an athlete’s best opportunity to improve.

Ball, K. (2008). Biomechanical considerations of distance kicking in Australian Rules football. Sports Biomechanics 7, 10-23.

Ball, K. (2011). Victoria University, The Conversation, Centimetre Perfect: A quest for flawless goal kicking in the AFL, Melbourne.

Blazevich, A. (2012). Sports Biomechanics The Basics (2 ed.). London Bloomsbury.

Coachesinfo. (2012). Kicking. from http://www.coachesinfo.com/index.php?option=com_content&%20id=366&%20Itemid=188

Rath, D. (unknown date). Biomechanics Of Kicking. http://www.ulstergaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/biomechanics-of-kicking-taken-from-afl.pdf

It may be technique, it may be nerves, it just may be an aberration to the norm, as has been pointed out from followers of Hogan's form for Casey.

I believe we do have a potential champion on our hands and I hope that what I witnessed recently is JUST an aberration. I'm sure the club will take steps to rectify his action if it deems it necessary! I, too think he will kick multiple goals particularly if he gets good supply and has a tried and trusted kicking action which will serve him well for the rest of his career!

You're on the wrong site if you want to use correct, scientific biomechanical facts to make your point. LOL

Edited April 23, 2015 by Bendigo Demon

[Undeeterred 3,124]

Why not just have him run through his technique with Jack Watts? I know a lot of people here don't rate Jack Watts, but his kicking (generally and for goal) is pretty hard to fault.

This.

Also, I agree with someone the other day who said Dunstall has a soft spot for us - he clearly does. He was barracking for us last year against Essendon in those last 30 seconds for sure...

[Deestroy All 14,266]

You could go through every goal kicked in history, and you'll never find a straighter kick that went more perfectly through the middle than his boundary line ripper.

But let's [censored] with his head and make him kick an unnatural way anyway.

[Grapeviney 9,830]

[picket fence 17,645]

You could go through every goal kicked in history, and you'll never find a straighter kick that went more perfectly through the middle than his boundary line ripper.

But let's [censored] with his head and make him kick an unnatural way anyway.

Ah hindsight, a great modality! Agree Boundary line goal was a ripper! Amazing what an assured deliberate practiced routine will do! Roosy probably would want to thank me for providing his coaching staff with a Biomechanical analysis which proved amazingly successful last night!

Well Done Jesse! Don't let em mess with what was a great goal kicking strategy/ style last night! Uncomplicated, Assured and ultimately last night successful

Edited April 25, 2015 by picket fence

[dees189227 12,430]

Yeah we dont want him to end up like a travis cloke, who needs to see someone to help him with his kicking. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but he has probably had heaps of people tell him different ways on what to do.

I was critical of Jesse missing easy goals a few weeks ago but after last night just let him do, how he wants to do it.