It's not just the midfielder's run, it was to do with ruck dominance. Jamar was beating Mumford, as soon as it flipped, boom, 10 goals.

Yeah, but they were doing it far too easily at the centre bounce downs and at the stoppages ... Jones had a shocker and Tyson was ineffectual

Jamar & Frost had 35 hit-outs between them as against Mumford's 38. Mumfords hit-outs were more effective but our midfield was woeful, all the same.

Clearances ... Jamar 6, vandenBerg 4, various others 2 or 3

For them ... Shiel 9, Ward 8, Mumford 5, Griffen 5, Coniglio 4, Treloar 4

Our clearance numbers and contested footy has been an issue since the Daniher days. A top midfielder will rove to the opposition ruckman if that opposition ruckman is on top. Jones is usually capable of doing that but he had an off day - no one else put their hand up.

Usually this is the point most of us would come in with a detailed rant about how upset we are.
I will merely use this YouTube video of Krusty the Klown to sum up my feelings.
https://youtu.be/Va5_rn3vG3A

No there's not.

We have perhaps one player in the best 50 in the comp.

Maybe not enough to beat the Hawks and Swans but there's enough to match it with bottom 10 teams. Too many excuses, it wasnt about talent today, it was effort.

... it wasnt about talent today, it was effort.

Is someone disagreeing?

Maybe not enough to beat the Hawks and Swans but there's enough to match it with bottom 10 teams. Too many excuses, it wasnt about talent today, it was effort.

That, and as others have said, the stoppage work was awful after halftime. It was a procession. I don't know if it's partly a communication issue, but they need to sort it out quickly.

Maybe not enough to beat the Hawks and Swans but there's enough to match it with bottom 10 teams. Too many excuses, it wasnt about talent today, it was effort.

GWS is not a bottom 10 team.

Talent-wise, our list still needs work, but it's come a long way in the last 5 years.

That's not absolutely nothing to do with what happened today.

Whether it's above the shoulders or not, whether it's coaching, whether it's just that some of these players have been ruined by a losing culture, whatever it is, we have an innate, inherent problem that repeatedly causes us to have lapses in effort which are beyond embarrassing, and unless and until we fix it, however it can be fixed, we can't improve as a football club.

We lack serious footspeed in the midfield. Sort that out and those guys start to look a whole lot better.

This is our big vulnerability. So far this season this is the third time we've been run off our feet by young fast teams. This game was very similar to the Dogs game in preseason, where as soon as they worked out they could outrun us easily, we were stuffed.

So against a fast side we should NEVER go into the game top-heavy, it's just asking for trouble.

I thought they must have realised this when they swapped Dawes for JKH and kept Frost in, so they were going to use the bench intelligently, and play Hogan at CHF and Dawes deep. WRONG! They weren't even aware of the risk in the first place! There was NO PLAN to counter the fact that we were top heavy.

Lacking foot speed also means that as soon as the other team works out how to play, there's very little we can do.

But in all our bad years, we've never made fools of ourselves because we haven't had enough talls. We've been smashed physically a few times, but never lost a match because we've been out marked.

In fact, on the contrary, a lot of our good performances in 2010 were because we had only Jamar in the ruck (supported by the likes of Dunn & Sylvia & Joel McDonald!!) and picked an extra runner and ran teams off their feet.

So let us NEVER EVER AGAIN go into another match against a fast team with too many talls.

With our slow midfield, we can't afford to go into a match against a fast side with more than two tall forwards (we had Hogan, Watts, Dawes & Frost) and more than three tall-plus-mid-sized defenders (we had McDonald, Dunn, Howe & Garland). Or we'll get smashed for speed.

The thing that really hurts is that I look at a team like the Bulldogs.

Had an ageing list, lost their captain, sacked their coach, and yet have done a great job bouncing back.

Ten mother [censored] miserable years we have been rebuilding and we are no better off. How is that even possible?

Share your pain man... But it's not were you start it's were you finish....

I'd say our club will be better set structures both on & off the field in yrs to come ... Bulldogs are about survival

Hang in thr.... I'm just as frustrated also ...

A Swan supporting friend said to me earlier in the week that Roos was ruining his legacy coaching us. Hard to disagree.

I think the effort was thr just not the intensity required to continued pushing @ afl level.... We forget the same team held them to just 2 goals in the 1st 1/2.....

Do you actually think Hogan would have done so well if Dawes wasn't there to stop him from being double teamed, taking another opponent etc.? I agree he did [censored] all around the ground, but there are other roles a forward play which help other forwards excel. Come on.

You're better than this MS.

Oh but Dawes was supposed to brutalise the opposition, and they would be sh#t scared!!!!

What a moronic comment.

Was there something wrong with Howe today? It was like he didn't wanna be there. Jones was hopeless too. We looked so slow in the midfield. Newton's the only one with a passmark through the midfield.

Poor old Tommy Mac. He was brilliant. Salem was decent too. Viney was good in the first half. Then we looked out on our feet at the start of the third.

How many times did the ball slip through Howes hands today?

A Swan supporting friend said to me earlier in the week that Roos was ruining his legacy coaching us. Hard to disagree.

I do. He took over raw sewage and it's already looking better, even though we still get the odd piece of outrageous filth like today. It's not like he's driving a premiership contender into the dirt. He's taking over a list so embarrassing the previous recruiters would be tried for attempted murder if the club was a human.

Good on him. He's going to leave a strong positive legacy at Melbourne. Even if he didn't, as Michael Caine once said of Jaws: The Revenge - "I have never seen the film, but by all accounts it was terrible. However I have seen the house that it built, and it is terrific."

You've got to be kidding. Excepting Jones, they're potentially talented, but nothing more at this stage.

Hogan has played 2 games, Salem and JKH not that many more, Viney, Tyson and McDonald are still learning the ropes, and Vince is approaching his last season or two. You can't even begin to build a team around players like that, but to a large extent that's what we're being forced to do.

Dees' supporters have got to stop kidding themselves about where our current list is at. Seriously.

As opposed to the seasoned veterans at GWS?

Is someone disagreeing?

I will disagree. It is a talent issue and it is an effort issue. As Roosey said we are not blessed with talent and when you don't put in a 100% effort you get smashed and we are masters at the humiliating loss. Why can't you at least try? We don't have players who you know will win a one on one contest every time. The top teams have 10 or more who will always win a contest at least when they play the bottom 10 or 12 sides.

We have no game changers. In short zero elite talent and you need some to be competitive. And then you need some hunger and some mongrel. Again I don't see much of it from our leadership group.

Jones is ridiculously important to this side. If he stops performing we grind to a halt. A lot of taggers from every club would have loved seeing what GWS did to him today.

Garland is a disgrace. He was great last week but quickly returned to his 2014 form, which consists of getting towelled up by his man and generally not giving a stuff. This is his 9th season FCS, there is no excuse for such inconsistency and generally weak effort.

Dawes has just about lost me for good. He played pretty much as bad a game as he could possibly have played today. Keep your feet you imbecile.

Roos is allegedly here to change the culture. Well, he was in charge today of about 17 blokes who flat out did not turn up for the game of football.

Excuse me for not reading anything until I've posted this.

We were putrid after half time and I know GWS thought they were putrid before half time. They've got some serious running midfielders that when they're on look really damaging - and obviously can be.

But hey, we beat GCS last week playing some really good footy and put a very good half together today. I would've expected Roos to be able to swing the changes on field to stem the deluge of goals or at the least expected our boys to go one-on-one and limit the damage in that third quarter. We need a plan to mitigate the run and scoring of opposition teams when they do get into that unstoppable play. Today showed that we can get caught with our pants down and not be able to respond quickly enough which really good teams are able to manage.

With the win against the Suns and a half of good footy today, I'm still looking at six quarters won, or 75% win rate if you like.

Not bad for the first two games of the season but today's second half was diabolical - no doubt.

We play well in Adelaide and should rebound well from today so hopefully next week the team can put in a much better performance against a handy looking Crows outfit.

Now, where did I leave that beer....

some said last week that the hard MCG will tell in the legs over the next couple of weeks... the 'g's' grass was short, the soil hard, & it was mentioned that players legs will be sore for weeks.

...and the Suns are replicating our "effort". makes yer wonder.

GWS is not a bottom 10 team.

Yeah, they are.

A Swan supporting friend said to me earlier in the week that Roos was ruining his legacy coaching us. Hard to disagree.

As did Barassi perhaps. But Barassi set us up for the Northey era. Roos may set us up for Goodwin, perhaps?

It was an appalling effort really from quarter time and the body striking thing was a total lack of on field leadership when things started going badly on the scoreboard in the third. I think pace is an issue but you look slow when you're being smashed. We didn't look that slow in the first quarter or last week. Geelong isn't quick through the middle. We were embarrassed in the contest after half time and that cost us most.

Some of the Roos bashing here is totally ridiculous.

oh yeah, Carlton only managed a 1 quarter effort last night. and Richmond were also crap today...

We play well in Adelaide

Huh???

Huh???

Last year we beat the Crows there and pushed the power.

Before that it's been shite. Lol