THE DRUG SCANDAL: AFL TRIBUNAL DECIDES

[TRIGON 4,783]

Thank you for your input sanityprevails, see you next Tuesday.

[Sir Why You Little 36,954]

I am suprised we haven't had more Drugendon Sympathizers in here.

Produce the Records ya fcuking CHEATS or take it HARD.

[Chris 2,892]

This thread is as good as some of the nonsense posted on bf's htb thread - An independent tribunal of highly qualified professionals found ASADA's case hopelessly constructed & didnt come close to proving their burden (& lets not forget the issue of 'manufactured evidence', I mean seriously what did these clowns at ASADA think they were doing??), but it is Essendon people that are being accused of having their heads in the sand?? That's laughable as I suspect deep down most of you here full well know.

Anyhoo, have fun hanging on for WADA to appeal & those blood tests to suddenly all come back positive (all 2 of them). Really life's too short.

You really did miss the whole point of my post didn't you. Typical Essendon supporter that changes the subject when they can't answer the problem posed to them. Edited May 4, 2015 by Chris

[DemonFrog 1,354]

Must have missed that bit. Where in the Tribunal's ruling does it find ASADA's case "hopelessly constructed"? All the tribunal found was that they couldn't be sure that the plant that makes TB4 actually made TB4.

BTW, who the hell are you???

Its either James or Tanya but my money is on James.

[Ted Lasso 19,261]

The day Essendon can display what they took and that it wasn't banned is the day I'll consider viewing them

In any other way,

But they won't do it, what went on in 2012 was clearly the greatest failure by any club in AFL history and they couldn't even keep records of it

[Ash35 425]

Yes, I know, but it's odd to find one of these little critters within the confines of a forum such as this.

I don't know, should Demonland only be open to Demon supporters? After all, there are plenty of other forums on the net where trolls opposition supporters can contribute their 2c.

I understand how frustrating it is to deal with trolls, and restricting Demonland to purely Melbourne supporters would eliminate that, but how do you police it.

How does a poster prove they barrack for Melbourne?

Or is it purely on what content a poster writes?

An obvious troll is an obvious troll, but it's not always that easy to spot.**

** - not a cryptic way of outing myself. lol [i'm not a troll]

[robbiefrom13 887]

This thread is as good as some of the nonsense posted on bf's htb thread - An independent tribunal of highly qualified professionals found ASADA's case hopelessly constructed & didnt come close to proving their burden (& lets not forget the issue of 'manufactured evidence', I mean seriously what did these clowns at ASADA think they were doing??), but it is Essendon people that are being accused of having their heads in the sand?? That's laughable as I suspect deep down most of you here full well know.

Anyhoo, have fun hanging on for WADA to appeal & those blood tests to suddenly all come back positive (all 2 of them). Really life's too short.

Your deep down suspicion is crap. Not funny, but crap.

[robbiefrom13 887]

LOL

Chip Le Grand, one of the biggest Essendon/Hird fanboys in the media

Will be lucky to sell 20 copies

How many thousand Essendon members? He'll tell them what they'll be pleased to pay for.

[Chris 2,892]

I understand how frustrating it is to deal with trolls, and restricting Demonland to purely Melbourne supporters would eliminate that, but how do you police it.

How does a poster prove they barrack for Melbourne?

Or is it purely on what content a poster writes?

An obvious troll is an obvious troll, but it's not always that easy to spot.**

** - not a cryptic way of outing myself. lol [i'm not a troll]

Happy for you to stay Ash. You seem quite reasonable and willing to accept something happened and you want to find out what it was is commendable. Pity I can't say that about many EFC supporters!

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

Another parent called 3aw this evening raising concern that they are still none the wiser about what their son ingested, and continual requests by the parent for information from the club remain unanswered.

I should add that Derwayne said they were still doing checks to determine if it was a hoax or indeed a parent. He said his son is still at the club

[Qwerty30 196]

I am surprised that you do not recognise that some forms of cheating are worse than others. For a start, tampering with players' bodies is worse in my mind than playing with their or some bookie's bank balances.

There are a range of cheats you can do which don't involve breaking any laws. Then there is cheating which may involve some law breaking - eg. by flattening the tyres on the opposition's bus so they arrive late through to mugging their star players the night before the match. All are worse than cheating by pretending you touched a ball going through their goals when you didn't.

I'll leave aside individual drug cheating versus tanking because the discussion is about institutional drug cheating.

Lets be clear what went on at Essendon was appalling.And agree with all the medical and ethical implications. I cant think of anything else worse

But when you said "Drug cheating is far worse than tanking of the MFC type (as you seem to acknowledge), but it is also worse than match fixing for profit or whatever." it left a broad interpretation of drug cheating.

And I dont see the issue of cheating involving law breaking at all as a necessary criteria for cheating. For many diehards at the various clubs allegedly involved in tanking and supplement they dont broke the law (See Mark Thompson's ghastly effort on Open Mike.). And I am not sure tanking and match fixing are too much different as they both seek to artificially impact the outcome of a game for an advantage be it financial or otherwise.

[daisycutter 29,600]

Lets be clear what went on at Essendon was appalling.And agree with all the medical and ethical implications. I cant think of anything else worse

But when you said "Drug cheating is far worse than tanking of the MFC type (as you seem to acknowledge), but it is also worse than match fixing for profit or whatever." it left a broad interpretation of drug cheating.

And I dont see the issue of cheating involving law breaking at all as a necessary criteria for cheating. For many diehards at the various clubs allegedly involved in tanking and supplement they dont broke the law (See Mark Thompson's ghastly effort on Open Mike.). And I am not sure tanking and match fixing are too much different as they both seek to artificially impact the outcome of a game for an advantage be it financial or otherwise.

well if you could show that any player actually tanked then i would agree that match fixing and tanking are the same

[DemonFrog 1,354]

Yes, I know, but it's odd to find one of these little critters within the confines of a forum such as this.

I don't know, should Demonland only be open to Demon supporters? After all, there are plenty of other forums on the net where trolls opposition supporters can contribute their 2c.

Let them post.

It good for a laugh or two.

[Qwerty30 196]

well if you could show that any player actually tanked then i would agree that match fixing and tanking are the same

Tanking refers to efforts of a team (not one player)

[sue 9,096]

Lets be clear what went on at Essendon was appalling.And agree with all the medical and ethical implications. I cant think of anything else worse

But when you said "Drug cheating is far worse than tanking of the MFC type (as you seem to acknowledge), but it is also worse than match fixing for profit or whatever." it left a broad interpretation of drug cheating.

And I dont see the issue of cheating involving law breaking at all as a necessary criteria for cheating. For many diehards at the various clubs allegedly involved in tanking and supplement they dont broke the law (See Mark Thompson's ghastly effort on Open Mike.). And I am not sure tanking and match fixing are too much different as they both seek to artificially impact the outcome of a game for an advantage be it financial or otherwise.

Well I think it was obvious I meant the sort of drug cheating EFC organized (allegedly ) not some bloke popping one pill.

And you misinterpreted me - I wasn't trying to say breaking the law was a necessary criterion for cheating.

But on your last sentence, we just disagree. Just because they both may have a financial or other advantage doesn't make them identical morally or in efect. For example, tanking doesn't affect a player's long term physical health. More generally, murder and theft both can have an advantage to the perpetrator. I know which I'd prefer to be a victim of.

Ed to add: And I also know I'd prefer my club to have tanked than to have conducted a 'pharmacological experiment'.

Edited May 4, 2015 by sue

[daisycutter 29,600]

Tanking refers to efforts of a team (not one player)

now you are being disingenuous.

you fully understood my point and you tried to sidestep it

so, to play your little game, show me a team or a player that actually tanked and then i would agree that match fixing and tanking are the same

[Ash35 425]

Another parent called 3aw this evening raising concern that they are still none the wiser about what their son ingested, and continual requests by the parent for information from the club remain unanswered.

I should add that Derwayne said they were still doing checks to determine if it was a hoax or indeed a parent. He said his son is still at the club

I'm going with hoax. The "parent" quoted his son received over 1000 injections over an 18 month period.

It's common knowledge that Dank was at the EFC for less than 12 months and the supplements programme lasted even less than that.

[faultydet 7,594]

I am suprised we haven't had more Drugendon Sympathizers in here.

Produce the Records ya fcuking CHEATS or take it HARD.

Thanks mate, gave me a reallygood laugh readong that.

Agree though.

Filthy drug cheats. Expose them, and shut them up forever.

[faultydet 7,594]

I'm going with hoax. The "parent" quoted his son received over 1000 injections over an 18 month period.

It's common knowledge that Dank was at the EFC for less than 12 months and the supplements programme lasted even less than that.

If thats correct (the over 1,000 Jobes in 18 months), then I would be inclined to agree.

But......

It wasnt a "supplement" program. It was an "illegal, performance enhancing drug" program.

I want closure. 2 year ban for essenscum closure

[rjay 24,849]

Drug cheating is far worse than tanking of the MFC type (as you seem to acknowledge), but it is also worse than match fixing for profit or whatever. If I throw a match at the request of my coach, I might have a bad conscience for the rest of my life. If I get injected with a substance which may have long term health issues, I may not have much of a rest of a life. And as you say, the fact that EFC admin won't/can't say what was injected is terrible - those people should be thrown out of the game if not into the clink.

This unfortunately can also be the consequence of match fixing or more likely the threat of not much life left.

...but we are really getting away from the EFC saga here and I've contributed. Sorry.

This statement though has raised some doubts in my mind. What if we have it wrong?

THE sports scientist at the centre of the Essendon supplements scandal has given sworn evidence that he provided players with a permitted Thymosin peptide and not the banned substance alleged by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority.

The Australian has learned that Stephen Dank, when questioned at length by Australian Crime Commission investigators in May 2012, testified that he administered Essendon players with Thymomodulin, an immunity booster safely given to infants, and not Thymosin Beta 4, a substance banned in sport.

The testimony, which Dank provided after being advised that his evidence could not be used in any criminal or anti-doping proceedings against him, is the only sworn evidence he has given about the substances he used at Essendon. Dank has refused to be interviewed by ASADA.

Edited May 4, 2015 by rjay

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

This unfortunately can also be the consequence of match fixing or more likely the threat of not much life left.

...but we are really getting away from the EFC saga here and I've contributed. Sorry.

This statement though has raised some doubts in my mind. What if we have it wrong?

THE sports scientist at the centre of the Essendon supplements scandal has given sworn evidence that he provided players with a permitted Thymosin peptide and not the banned substance alleged by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority.

The Australian has learned that Stephen Dank, when questioned at length by Australian Crime Commission investigators in May 2012, testified that he administered Essendon players with Thymomodulin, an immunity booster safely given to infants, and not Thymosin Beta 4, a substance banned in sport.

The testimony, which Dank provided after being advised that his evidence could not be used in any criminal or anti-doping proceedings against him, is the only sworn evidence he has given about the substances he used at Essendon. Dank has refused to be interviewed by ASADA.

Well, doubts maybe rjay, but about what? Why would Dank need immunity from prosecution to provide a statement that he administered a perfectly legal substance?

[rjay 24,849]

Well, doubts maybe rjay, but about what? Why would Dank need immunity from prosecution to provide a statement that he administered a perfectly legal substance?

The doubts revolve around why Dank would give sworn evidence that the EFC players were given legal supplements, what would be in it for him to lie? none of this evidence can be used against him so what's the angle?

[Dees2014 2,377]

Yes, I know, but it's odd to find one of these little critters within the confines of a forum such as this.

I don't know, should Demonland only be open to Demon supporters? After all, there are plenty of other forums on the net where trolls opposition supporters can contribute their 2c.

Personally, I would be against that. It is instructive to get some contrary points of view if only to understand the "thinking". I have had a number of emails on here from people who are following our discussion about Essendon because they like the varied points of view, and they are not demon fans. Much of the emails are very constructive. Some of them, even though they are members, are reluctant to post because they don't want to get canned by us.

The posts from " Sanityprevails" (the name itself has the hallmarks of Hird's narcissist personality so he probably is from his campaign!) are typical from vintage Hird hard core supporters, if not from his campaign itself. They are instructive because they are so stupid and it just shows what the likes of McDevitt are up against in ensuring that justice is done here. It just confirms my admiration for the integrity and courage of Fahey, Coates and McDevitt and shows the importance of their getting our continued support until this thing has been bought to its final conclusion. We should not allow the relatively silent majority to be drowned out by Hird's bully boy loud hailer.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Dees2014

[ex52k2 238]

Don't post often but here is my gist of the opera.

The tribunal said nobody can PROVE it was TB4, not the maker nor seller, nor chemists nor anybody. CRAP..... I bet when any of those 3 wise men go to a night out and order a steak do they want a sample tested to PROVE it is what it is. NO because some things are givens. You order a steak you pay for a steak you get a steak and you eat it.

To say there is no proof that Danks forwarded the TB4 to the EFC or steak or whatever, there dosnt need to be, Danks was a paid employee of the EFC, so giving it to Danks was giving it to the EFC.

On another tact, if as the EFC claim another drug was given to the players in the amounts mentioned and no record can be found of the said drug, how did they pay for them? No records exist, so how did the auditors sign off on the books 2012-2013. Are the EFC running 2 sets of books? Should the auditors be disbarred or whatever you do to auditors?

Plainly those books are wrong as the EFC have said no records exist. Monies spent have to be accounted for annually, hence the burst said at every AGM about the books being audited

Hit those bastards with everything you can, if they dropped the needles on the ground, littering, incorrect disposal, anything and everything their actions are a blight on the game and sport. Those persons who started this program are a waste of space and a refection on their character and upbringing.

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

The doubts revolve around why Dank would give sworn evidence that the EFC players were given legal supplements, what would be in it for him to lie? none of this evidence can be used against him so what's the angle?

Well, I suppose one angle would be that it might persuade people to think the way you're thinking ('Honest Steve Dank'). Somewhere in the dim past of this thread there are references to opinions about the 'Thymomodulin' issue suggesting that it could not have had any therapeutic effect and the claimed reasons for its use were exactly those that TB4 provides. If that's true then Dank's 'swearing' that Thymomodulin was administered would also be an attempt to add to the veracity-effect, which might be another angle. With Dank, I suspect that there would always be more than one, two, three ... angles involved at any one time.