An unfair characterization of psychologists and psychiatrists

Some people might debate you on that, Binman! LOL

What constitutes "facts" on these forums is often known in other circles as "chinese whispers".

Yeah well I have another for you take it or leave it! It wasn't the fact that we weren't doing enough for him it was more what he was, ah, doing managing himself!

(Being deliberately cautious here!)

even if that's a commonly held position, it may be appropriate for your 'average Joe' - in MC's case he was provided a vast amount of financial and emotional support from a great number of people, so the 'change of scenery' approach has a very nasty side effect, which is knifing all these people. Anyone with a brain (and/or soul) would realise that the 'change of scenery' method in this particular case was wildly inappropriate, but obviously MC and/or his advisor(s) felt differently - which is why there has been doubt cast on his entire story and motivations.

So what you're saying is MC's doctors felt differently to you?

What a shock.

I have clinical depression. Diagnosed by multiple doctors.

The stigma associated with this condition is not helped by people in your "circles" JVF. In fact, it is the very reason I don't tell many people. It makes things very hard, because when I experience a depressive episode and need to miss a social event or can't deliver on a promise for someone, I need to make up a flimsy excuse. I shouldn't have to. My condition, like any other medical condition, is justification enough. But I have to be careful who I tell about it because some will judge me "soft" and tell me to "suck it up".

Honestly, being told your'e soft while in the middle of a low is crushing. I spend considerable time during depressive episodes working on my CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) to prevent it spiralling further out of control. When in this state, any insult, not matter how minor, can be devastating to my CBT and further undermine the self-confidence it's designed to prevent eroding. It's easier to just not tell people than risk a blow like that.

It's hard to explain to people, because from the outside I just look "vacant" or "sad", and an accusation of "soft" doesn't sound that harsh. I assure you, on the inside, it's not that simple.

As for the environment argument, it differs because each person's triggers are different. Some people's environments are destructive, some are supportive. I had a mix of both and had to eliminate one and focus on the other until I had the tools to properly balance my life.

Clinical depression is real. People in your circles make it worse.

Fortunately you seem to be in the minority, judging from other posters here.

Go Dees.

Can a post be "pinned" in threads on Demonland? Because this is far and away the best and most insightful post in the entire thread.

surely worth the risk though. He is a genuine KPF goalkicker, It is hard to imagine a more required type of player for this football club at the moment.

Save for the fact that he was about to be paid the last of his $800k in 2015 after missing 51 of the previous 66 games.

Good on you Choke, keep up the good work

All power to you choke, well done.

I have been fortunate to have never suffered from depression, so my understanding is limited. But I applaud you, albeit on a forum to come out.

We non sufferers need to have more compassion.

Although simplistic, depression can be seen like a chronic bad back. Because the problem cannot be easily seen or understood sympathy and understanding is limited.

I hope your battles with depression include more wins than losses. Talking about issues helps all of us to improve.

Excellent post MD

People with severe depression have trouble getting out of bed, getting the milk out of the fridge to make a coffee.

This is exactly why i have always been a little cynical about Clark's decisions and motives.

During his whole retirement he took 100's of wedding and glamour photos. Most of them very good. He has a talent. But if he was too depressed to play AFL i find it hard to believe he had the drive and motivation to pursue his photography.

A family friend lives in a semi darkened room in Brighton and he has not been outside since the late 80's. This guy scored a perfect 100 in his HSC Year.

I know every case is different but to me it is just NQR that Mitch Clark could return to AFL top level 6 months after he retired because he was in a dark place.

Mitch Clark wants a shot at a flag without all the hard work.

This is possibly why the club didn't fight too hard to keep him

The change of environment in Mitch's case doesn't wash with me.

The Mclardy Schwab MFC would be so far distant from the Jackson Roos MFC

It IS a different place

Excellent post MD

People with severe depression have trouble getting out of bed, getting the milk out of the fridge to make a coffee.

This is exactly why i have always been a little cynical about Clark's decisions and motives.

During his whole retirement he took 100's of wedding and glamour photos. Most of them very good. He has a talent. But if he was too depressed to play AFL i find it hard to believe he had the drive and motivation to pursue his photography.

A family friend lives in a semi darkened room in Brighton and he has not been outside since the late 80's. This guy scored a perfect 100 in his HSC Year.

I know every case is different but to me it is just NQR that Mitch Clark could return to AFL top level 6 months after he retired because he was in a dark place.

Mitch Clark wants a shot at a flag without all the hard work.

This is possibly why the club didn't fight too hard to keep him

The change of environment in Mitch's case doesn't wash with me.

The Mclardy Schwab MFC would be so far distant from the Jackson Roos MFC

It IS a different place

I think you will find that depression affects different people in different ways.

I have little to no knowledge about the condition from a medical standpoint, but I would not find it hard to believe that the fact that he was able to channel so much into his photography was that it was something that he derived pleasure from at a time when everything else was going to [censored]. Photography was something that he was having success with and which would have been helping to raise his self esteem at a time when that was exactly what he needed.

I think you will find that depression affects different people in different ways.

I have little to no knowledge about the condition from a medical standpoint, but I would not find it hard to believe that the fact that he was able to channel so much into his photography was that it was something that he derived pleasure from at a time when everything else was going to [censored]. Photography was something that he was having success with and which would have been helping to raise his self esteem at a time when that was exactly what he needed.

Possibly yes. But i would have expected a darker edge to the photography if his inner demons were in full flight.

Depression is a chemical imbalance and i find MC's miraculous recovery just before the draft period to be NQR.

and i doubt that will change.

He has dudded Brisbane, Fremantle and the MFC so far......

An unfair characterization of psychologists and psychiatrists

and that is just an opinion, not necessarily universally held

and that is just an opinion, not necessarily universally held

I know a couple of the former dc and I can only offer 100% agreement.

I don't understand how you can think that the fact that MC has got himself well enough to recommence an AFL career makes your assertion (bolded above) correct. I would have thought the opposite is true if anything. That's to say there is every chance that if he simply, in true Aussie bloke fashion, tried to 'tough it out' and stayed put his mental health might have got much worse, any other issues in his life might have got worse and he may have ended up quitting (or being fired) and never return to footy.

I am guessing, contrary to your views that he would rethink his decision to retire, that MC and those who care about him most likely think he made exactly the right call.

Supposition of course but he presumably got professional advice that retiring was the best thing he could for his mental health. I very much doubt that outside of forum posters he would have received any advice from trained professional to 'tough it out'. A quick glance at the Beyondblue website linked above would demonstrate that such strategies are likely in fact to make things much worse. Toughing it out is the very reason so many Australian men suffer from depression.

And of course the less said the better about characterizing him retiring from footy to get treatment as running away from his problem (as opposed to actually addressing it which is what he has done).

The fact he has chosen to recommence his career at GFC is completely irrelevant to the any discussion about his choice to retire.

Good post. All I can say is that I may well be wrong. None of us can know the truth nor put ourselves in his shoes - even for some, such as myself, who have their own demons, every person and case is different. Just to clarify, by 'toughing it out' I don't mean keeping it all suppressed. I mean refusing to succumb to it to the point that you would throw away the dream of a privileged few. I just feel similarly to that which is expressed in WYL's post #234 - I'm not quite buying the whole story. I don't see it as him going through some recovery process, like a knee reconstruction for example, and coming out all better again....

all of that aside, I still maintain that the secondary issue - that of going to the GFC instead of returning to us is utterly despicable

I know a couple of the former dc and I can only offer 100% agreement.

I know a couple of both and from personal experience I am not sold any of these 'experts' have a clue what they're doing TBH

all of that aside, I still maintain that the secondary issue - that of going to the GFC instead of returning to us is utterly despicable

The need to change environment as part of your recovery is a thoroughly plausible and legitimate possibility.

I know because I've had to do it myself.

I'm bipolar, and several years ago I had a full-blown episode which forced me off work for a time. Work itself wasn't the trigger, but the environment was compounding the problem. Thanks to the good grace of my employer at the time, I was able to return to work in the same job but in a different office - virtually the same as returning to footy but at a different club.

I find it staggering that anyone on here thinks they can diagnose, analyse or otherwise understand Mitch's health and condition based purely on a few media statements and his Twitter feed.

The need to change environment as part of your recovery is a thoroughly plausible and legitimate possibility.

I know because I've had to do it myself.

I'm bipolar, and several years ago I had a full-blown episode which forced me off work for a time. Work itself wasn't the trigger, but the environment was compounding the problem. Thanks to the good grace of my employer at the time, I was able to return to work in the same job but in a different office - virtually the same as returning to footy but at a different club.

I find it staggering that anyone on here thinks they can diagnose, analyse or otherwise understand Mitch's health and condition based purely on a few media statements and his Twitter feed.

No argument here. I only ask, why Geelong?

I find it staggering that anyone on here thinks they can diagnose, analyse or otherwise understand Mitch's health and condition based purely on a few media statements and his Twitter feed.

+1

Just to clarify, by 'toughing it out' I don't mean keeping it all suppressed. I mean refusing to succumb to it to the point that you would throw away the dream of a privileged few. .

Fair enough.

But perhaps he was doing the opposite to throwing away the dream. What if he determined that if he didn't retire and get treatment his AFL dream was going down in flames and his career was finished. Perhaps he determined that the best way to ensure he he did not throw away the dream was to retire and get help. Perhaps returning was always in his mind or at the least something to aim for if he could get well.

Lets say for the sake of argument this hypothetical scenario is correct. If so, given he is back at an AFL club (a wildly successful one at that) you'd have to say MC made a very smart move.

From what I've heard and read, the "fresh start" approach is a common treatment and is not about the current environment being a bad one, it's about removing yourself from the surroundings you were in when you had depression. So they're not saying it's a matter of saying MFC and it's performances contributing to it, they're saying let's take the person out of the surroundings that hold the memories of that time.

Can't understand how you seemingly sympathise with his condition, and then say his decisions will "stain his reputation".

Has he completely removed/detached himself from photography?

Surely this draws a parallel to your premise?

I have clinical depression. Diagnosed by multiple doctors.

The stigma associated with this condition is not helped by people in your "circles" JVF. In fact, it is the very reason I don't tell many people. It makes things very hard, because when I experience a depressive episode and need to miss a social event or can't deliver on a promise for someone, I need to make up a flimsy excuse. I shouldn't have to. My condition, like any other medical condition, is justification enough. But I have to be careful who I tell about it because some will judge me "soft" and tell me to "suck it up".

Honestly, being told your'e soft while in the middle of a low is crushing. I spend considerable time during depressive episodes working on my CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) to prevent it spiralling further out of control. When in this state, any insult, not matter how minor, can be devastating to my CBT and further undermine the self-confidence it's designed to prevent eroding. It's easier to just not tell people than risk a blow like that.

It's hard to explain to people, because from the outside I just look "vacant" or "sad", and an accusation of "soft" doesn't sound that harsh. I assure you, on the inside, it's not that simple.

As for the environment argument, it differs because each person's triggers are different. Some people's environments are destructive, some are supportive. I had a mix of both and had to eliminate one and focus on the other until I had the tools to properly balance my life.

Clinical depression is real. People in your circles make it worse.

Fortunately you seem to be in the minority, judging from other posters here.

Go Dees.

Thanks for your personal insight might make a few take a good hard look at themselves.

Having had to trim more than a page of posts, I think this is done and dusted.

If you want to continue to talk about mental health, start a thread on the general board.

This thread's about an injured Geelong player - one who no longer cares for our club - which makes it dubious at best.