I don't believe much of what we are hearing in the media. From what I can tell, I'd say we know that the Saints are taking McCartin at pick 1 and that Petracca will be there for us to pick on draft day.

My reason for believing this?

The Saints stitching us up on the Frost trade has all the hallmarks of a bit of payback from the Saints and Giants. I'd say we were successful in spooking the Saints away from downgrading to pick 4 to get Mcartin there via a trade with GWS for pick 1. I also believe that the Saints saying they will take Petracca is just another childish attempt to get pay back.

If this turns out to be the case, I'd be taking a midfielder and tall combination of either:

Petracca & Wright

or

Petracca & Lever

or

Petracca & Durdin

U have to be kidding me. If saints overlook petracca, we will def go petracca and brayshaw at 2 and 3. We have third world midfield at the moment that needs drastic improvement.

who's better; Hogan or Mccartin?

Based on body of work as juniors, Hogan. Hogan's more versatile and has an incredibly good tank for a big bloke. Played well as a CHB and even stints in midfield for Claremont Colts.

McCartin more a pure full forward, very good running patterns, his game is designed for leading out of the square. Doesn't have the endurance to play further up the ground, but good awareness inside 50. Could work well with Hogan I feel, especially if Hogan moves out to CHF.

Having those two would ensure a bit of mongrel in our fwd 50, which is pretty appealing.

Based on body of work as juniors, Hogan. Hogan's more versatile and has an incredibly good tank for a big bloke. Played well as a CHB and even stints in midfield for Claremont Colts.

McCartin more a pure full forward, very good running patterns, his game is designed for leading out of the square. Doesn't have the endurance to play further up the ground, but good awareness inside 50. Could work well with Hogan I feel, especially if Hogan moves out to CHF.

Having those two would ensure a bit of mongrel in our fwd 50, which is pretty appealing.

EXACTLY....that mongrel part....

Petracca still a chance, but either way we should nab someone who could easily have been pick 1:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/st-kilda-saints/saints-knocked-back-two-for-pick-no-1-20141018-1186e5.html

Based on body of work as juniors, Hogan. Hogan's more versatile and has an incredibly good tank for a big bloke. Played well as a CHB and even stints in midfield for Claremont Colts.

McCartin more a pure full forward, very good running patterns, his game is designed for leading out of the square. Doesn't have the endurance to play further up the ground, but good awareness inside 50. Could work well with Hogan I feel, especially if Hogan moves out to CHF.

Having those two would ensure a bit of mongrel in our fwd 50, which is pretty appealing.

we don't want a one dimensional forward in todays style of game... if the game slows down so we can afford a full forward old style, then yes... if McCartin can't play other roles, he's no good to us.

we should have gone after Christian Jaksch.... & Tomlinson next year, as well as Shiel, Treloar, Kennedy, Sloane,

I don't know nearly enough about this stuff, but can someone let me know if this is how it looks likely to pan out?

St Kilda takes Petracca, we then take Brayshaw and McCartin.

St Kilda takes McCartin, we then take Brayshaw and Petracca.

St Kilda takes Brayshaw, we then take McCartin and Petracca.

Are there any other permutations here? They are the top 3, right?

I don't know nearly enough about this stuff, but can someone let me know if this is how it looks likely to pan out?

St Kilda takes Petracca, we then take Brayshaw and McCartin.

St Kilda takes McCartin, we then take Brayshaw and Petracca.

St Kilda takes Brayshaw, we then take McCartin and Petracca.

Are there any other permutations here? They are the top 3, right?

Only the first two are likely for St Kilda (Petracca or McCartin) and we are likely to collect Brayshaw under either scenario. There is a third scenario however and that is:

St. Kilda take Petracca, then we take Brayshaw and Wright.

The above all hinges on whether Roos feels Wright or McCartin would work better for us in his planned forwad structure with Hogan, Dawes & Garlett. By all accounts Wright is an elite kick and has the advantage of being able to share the ruck duties. McCartin might be ahead on aggression however which may also suit Roos.

Only the first two are likely for St Kilda (Petracca or McCartin) and we are likely to collect Brayshaw under either scenario. There is a third scenario however and that is:

St. Kilda take Petracca, then we take Brayshaw and Wright.

The above all hinges on whether Roos feels Wright or McCartin would work better for us in his planned forwad structure with Hogan, Dawes & Garlett. By all accounts Wright is an elite kick and has the advantage of being able to share the ruck duties. McCartin might be ahead on aggression however which may also suit Roos.

& a forth, our first selection, then laverde` or lever

Just thinking that Goodwin said he is a big believer in building the culture of a footy club. From all reports Lever is a fantastic leader and if i was a coach trying to build culture and i rated McCartin and Lever the same, i would then take Lever over McCartin due to his leadership (which hopefully translates into building the right culture at the club).

Assuming Saints take McCantin, we absolutely should take Brayshaw and Petracca with our first two picks. Our midfield is embarassingly weak, but I think both those two boys could hopefully set up our midfield for a few years and importantly both should be able to make an immediate impact next year.

If Saints take Petracca, I think we definitely pick up McCantin and Brayshaw. Brayshaw is the obvious one, he's a lock imo. Safe bet for 200 game midfielder.

McCantin is highly talented and we really need another key forward desperately. Dawes is a bullocking trier, but we don't want him to be our forward target long term. Apart from Hogan we literally have no other key forward options. Fitzpatrick and Gawn are not natural forwards and will never be the big target, more the ruckman who floats forward. If we pick up McCantin we'd have 2 young KPFs developing together. I think that's ideal.

This is our list as I see it, and I think it shows that McCantin (ie another KPF) is really critical going forward. I'm being a little bit forward looking and including McCantin and Brayshaw, who realistically won't impact greatly until 2016.

Garland Frost Dunn

Howe McDonald Lumumba

Brayshaw Jones Vince

Kent Hogan Watts

Garlett Dawes McCantin

Jamar Tyson Viney

Int: JKH, Grimes, Cross, Salem, Toumpas, Gawn, Jetta, Matt Jones

Cusp: Bail, Michie, Riley, Terlich, Peterson, Spenser, McKenzie, Fitzpatrick

Developing: Hunt, Barry, Stretch, pick 40, pick 53

Injured: Trengove

Delisted: Byrnes, Clisby, Nicholson, Frawley, Flark, Blease, Strauss, Evans, Tapscott

I never knew that being a self assured and confident young man meant you are arrogant.

I have no idea where this arrogance [censored] comes from when talking about Petracca. He has one of the more professional attitudes I've seen of this draft.

Comparisons with Sylvia? Give me a [censored] break.

Just thinking that Goodwin said he is a big believer in building the culture of a footy club. From all reports Lever is a fantastic leader and if i was a coach trying to build culture and i rated McCartin and Lever the same, i would then take Lever over McCartin due to his leadership (which hopefully translates into building the right culture at the club).

totally,, its the right sort of heads that will build our team culture, not speed, not skill, not raw talent... but mature hardness ahead of all other things, first. see hodge, see chappy, see ling, see selwood, see mitchell, see paul kelly, see maxfield, see kirk.

this is what we have missed along the journey, a succession of these types of strong heads, together with the strong coaches & support. (on-field)

So you're certain that the Saints are taking Petracca are you Rjay?

Nup, I have no idea who they will take. Read the 2 posts properly, it was a little dig at 'Mons' wording. Nothing more, nothing less.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/afl/fremantle-looks-to-new-batch-of-key-position-talent-including-sam-durdin/story-fniv64vs-1227094794975

"And West Coast’s plan to snare nippy South Fremantle goal-shark Jarrod Pickett has hit a snag with expansion franchise Greater Western Sydney or Melbourne set to pounce on the West Australian.

Eagles talent scouts are known to be keen on Pickett with their first pick at 11 after the lightning quick forward played five senior games with South late into this season.

But Pickett has stormed into early draft selection calculations at Melbourne where the Demons hold picks 2 and 3, while the Giants have 4, 6 and 7 after vigorous trading last week landed critical draft positions."

http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/afl/fremantle-looks-to-new-batch-of-key-position-talent-including-sam-durdin/story-fniv64vs-1227094794975

"And West Coast’s plan to snare nippy South Fremantle goal-shark Jarrod Pickett has hit a snag with expansion franchise Greater Western Sydney or Melbourne set to pounce on the West Australian.

Eagles talent scouts are known to be keen on Pickett with their first pick at 11 after the lightning quick forward played five senior games with South late into this season.

But Pickett has stormed into early draft selection calculations at Melbourne where the Demons hold picks 2 and 3, while the Giants have 4, 6 and 7 after vigorous trading last week landed critical draft positions."

like Pickett, but am surprised we would use such a high pick on a small? OK with it if they think he's the one.

Seriously?

Those that want to take two mids know that we have the worst midfield in the league.

The worst, by nearly every metric, and the eyes of most MFC fans.

That is why posters want us to get two of the best three available midfielders.

Yes we do have the worst midfield, however two 18 year old draftees with "potential" won't change that immediately.

I can't see the likes of Brayshaw and Petracca holding their own week after week against the likes of Hodge, Kennedy, Jack, Barlow, GAJ, Pendles etc. in their first few seasons.

For me it's all about drafting those with the most talent. NOT needs.

If the Saints take McCartin at one, then we are in luck as we'll get the next best two talents who happen to be midfielders. If they take Petracca, hopefully we'll get McCartin along with Brayshaw the next best two talents.

What's also good is that McCartin is more of your conventional FF, whereas our Hogan has the tank to play that modern CHF role where he can push up and around the ground. They'll go hand in hand for the next decade and I won't be complaining either way come draft night.

So, if we had picks 2 & 3 last year, at this same stage who would we have wanted? Billings and Scharenberg perhaps? Heavily influenced by media hype I'd suggest.

But we would have all made a good case for Kelly also, I'd suggest very few would have suggested Bontempelli in the top 3.

Here we are one year on and if the draft was done again today I'd suggest Bontempelli may well have stormed into the top 3. My point, ignore the media hype, and have faith we now have quality people in charge of drafting.

I've no idea in 12-24 months time who is likely to be the then rated 2/3 from 2014 draft, by I desperately hope we got them both.....be it Patracca, Brayshaw, Lever, Durdin, Laverde, Mccartin, Wright or someone else.

All of the top-rated soon to be draftees this year seem to have significant flaws according to the experts. It's hard to feel confident that they will become the guns expected of such high picks, particularly at our club.

All of the top-rated soon to be draftees this year seem to have significant flaws according to the experts. It's hard to feel confident that they will become the guns expected of such high picks, particularly at our club.

this is why IMO a kid like Pickett comes into frame; he has natural polish & speed skills & quick agility. he shows strong run & linkup from the half backline... Roosy want that style according to last years talk.

could be anything. worth the gamble? I think so.

All of the top-rated soon to be draftees this year seem to have significant flaws according to the experts. It's hard to feel confident that they will become the guns expected of such high picks, particularly at our club.

Hopefully it's a matter of journalists doing their job a little better. In previous years some of the player write ups have been ridiculous with every player from pick 1-80 being touted as the second coming of John Coleman. Every player has weak points to their game- especially at 17 years old.

I think we should be factoring in the likelihood of Freo throwing massive coin Hogan's way when he's next out of contract.

It's why we need to commit to a big to go with a mid if Petracca slides. If he doesn't, like most I'd love Petracca and Brayshaw.

The other thing to factor in is that in all likelihood we are going to be bottom few again in 2015 and they say next year's draft class is strong for mids but weak for key position types.

don't know if i could stand another season with another makeshift forward line. we need blokes capable of dominating their opponents rather than the likes of pedersen, dunn, frawley & fitzpatrick just floating around trying to take the odd grab. without another certain midfielder around the mark, i think mccartin is a must at pick 3.

don't know if i could stand another season with another makeshift forward line. we need blokes capable of dominating their opponents rather than the likes of pedersen, dunn, frawley & fitzpatrick just floating around trying to take the odd grab. without another certain midfielder around the mark, i think mccartin is a must at pick 3.

an 18yr old F/F will be no good without high quality ball coming into the forwardline, he's likely take 2 - 3 yrs to be ready.

Pickett on the other hand playing as a quick small could play sometime next year if he's mature enough. not many will match his speed.

as far as talls, there may be others this PSD.... or we can trade one in next trade period. Dawes, Hogan, Pederson, Fitz, Gawn, Jamar, & rookie kids coming thru.

I don't know nearly enough about this stuff, but can someone let me know if this is how it looks likely to pan out?

St Kilda takes Petracca, we then take Brayshaw and McCartin.

St Kilda takes McCartin, we then take Brayshaw and Petracca.

St Kilda takes Brayshaw, we then take McCartin and Petracca.

Are there any other permutations here? They are the top 3, right?

The only other one I'm seeing is St Kilda take McCartin and we take Petracca and Wright (best midfielder and best available KPP), which would be kinda funny given Brayshaw is the one that everyone assumes will be a Demon next season.

I hope we take the two best mids in this scenario though. They are the two best available players, both ready to hit the ground running, so we should take them.