AFL involved in Port Adelaide/Essendon Draft Rort

[beelzebub 22,704]

I'm not writing to abuse you, however I will happily have a debate with you.

As I made it clear on here a couple times, I am a Biochemist. I have spent years and years working in a lab and going through the scientific literature, although my work and field revolves around cancer or more specifically the processes and mechanisms of cancer invasion. So when the names of the agents or peptides were released the first thing I did was look them up on the appropriate databases where they would have been originally published in peer reviewed journals (PubMed, Web of Science, etc.) - Not Google which cites websites created by the likes of you and I.

So with regards to my scientific background it's actually quite easy for me to read the scientific literature (on new or different drugs) and incorporate or adapt my broad understanding of the molecular signalling pathways (of a cell) that contribute to a range of physiological functions within the body (e.g. muscular hypertrophy and lipolysis).

Now aside from the concepts of "cheating" or "lack of governance" - for what your club has been punished for, what has concerned me far more is the simple fact that very little is known about the long term effects of these drugs. The drugs injected have been poorly characterized and like that of AOD-9604 potentially carcinogenic. For example the peptide (a small sequence of amino acids - the natural building blocks of proteins) AOD-9604 was designed to mimic the active site of the Human Growth Hormone (HGH) that has been scientifically supported on numerous occasions to increase the risks of cancer with those that use it in an overexpressed fashion (like that of gym junkies, not necessarily those with a deficiency).

(NOTE: Active site = part that interacts with the receptor, in this case the cellular growth factor receptor (GFR) that initiates an internal (cellular) signalling cascade)

Originally the general design concept behind AOD-9604 was to develop a form of the HGH with fewer side effects by essentially removing the overall protein and other protein-protein interactive sites to only leave the region that performs it's main function - the "active site", this could potentially be a welcome addition for those requiring HGH supplementation due to a deficiency. However, the links to the HGH and cancer are most likely due to the overexpression of the downstream GFR pathways - not the additional regulatory regions of the protein, so there is probably a similar trend with AOD-9604. Although "probably" is just as much the problem, the fact is we don't know enough about the long term side effects of it, and your club chose to inject the players whilst going against the opinions of the club doctor and other medicos (those most highly qualified) potentially putting your players long term health at risk. Whether ASADA sent an email confirming or denying it on the band substances list is beside the point, alternatively Mark "Bomber" Thompson's claims that it doesn't cause cancer is a blatant lie, he has no clue.

Now lets get onto the injection of pig brain lysate the alleged biochemist Dank stated he used on the players. First things first it's from a pig, in no way will this give any form of performance enhancement, it will only increase the bodies natural immune response to generate antibodies as it's from a foreign organism (pig/ porcine) and again place the players at risk of developing long term health issues like prion disease (e.g. mad cows disease and kuru) as it's raw brain extract. Secondly to that this tells me Dank is and never was a biochemist like myself or my colleges, even the earliest of biochemists (honours students) would learn and pick up on something like this quite quickly within their starting careers. At the very most I can presume Dank has himself a degree in Science where he majored in Biochemistry - most likely graduating with D's, he has then gone to the Essendon football club, gained authority and injected the players with a number of poorly characterized and hazardous. This is the equivalent of getting a kid out of high school having done year 12 wood work and putting him on a building site as the foreman.

So there again is that lack of governance that yes your club has been punished for but what's worse is the lack of duty of care and long term well being of the players health that no your club has not been properly punished for.

So it is my opinion that Paddy Ryder and any other player at the club can exercise their right to terminate their contract with the Essendon football club as they did not maintain their duty of care by placing the players long term health at risk, this must occur in every workplace across the country. Your club should consider itself lucky that they are getting any form of trade as he can simply walk out, become a free agent and Essendon would be powerless to gain any form of compensation.

Ignition...would you mind reposting this to the http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/34746-bombers-charged-and-redacted/ Thread , very informative. I learnt something today

great post

[daisycutter 28,722]

also add your take on thymosin

[Ash35 425]

ignition, thank you for that insight and info.

Stephen Dank was never on my Christmas card list.

I read the paper this morning, what Patrick Ryder and his partner has experienced over the past couple of years, and it's awful.

I don't blame the man for wanting to leave, get a fresh start elsewhere.

The club has already effectively admitted it failed in its duty of care to players - the Switkowski report and accepting the AFL penalties last August has seen to that.

So realistically, every single player has an open and shut case of breach of contract against the club.

Obviously Essendon and the AFL don't want this can of worms opened up.

The club should let Paddy Ryder go [cut this crap about if a trade can't be done he will stay] and try and get what it can for him and pray no one else triggers the clause.

It's obviously in Essendons best interests as it will only be the good players who walk because they can get more money elsewhere, and their managers will be keen to pursue that. It's like voluntary redundancy - the best people put their hands up because they can walk into new jobs. All companies that have a series of voluntary redundancy rounds end up with weak teams.

Add possible suspensions from ASAGA for the players that stay, and this is why I am preparing myself for a long stretch of non-success.

All brought upon itself.

[timD 994]

Garlett knows where the goals are.

Has speed to burn.

I think he looked a very dangerous forward under Ratten, but just didn't gel with Malthouse.

Played a lot of VFL in 2014 cos Malthouse wanted him to chase and tackle more.

I can live with that when a guy kicks 40+ goals a season, which Garlett is capable of doing.

Essendon were keen, he toured Tullamarine.

He would have filled a massive hole in our team [small quick crumbing forward].

But he chose Melbourne, so another feather in your cap.

For the price of a pretty late draft pick, he has massive up side.

Undeeterred, I didn't come here looking for sympathy.

But I take your points on board.

I have learnt over the years that there isn't a lot of love for the Dons here at Demonland, which is fine.

Hey Ashe

you've been missed.

Most of the dislike about essendon is jealously. We've been so weak for so long and Essendon have been so good for so long (and bold, if not arrogant) that it naturally breeds envy. People cloak it in discussion about unbearable supporters, but really, it is just jealously, pure and simple.

On the supplements thing, the bombers sought to gain an advantage by cheating. They looked for chemicals that had not been banned yet or were so experimental that benefits and risks were hard to ascertain. They did not care about consequences and actively attempted to play in the 'grey' zone...and if it was red, that was an "accident". There is nothing particularly unclear about it and the "complexity" is just pissing around about details.

David Evans figured this out and tried to just tear the bandaid off before the damn thing had been stuck down. Hird offed him. Evans had the right strategy and would have seen everything cleaned up by now...and the pain would now have begun to fade. Now both clubs have a painful experience of character issues - at the top and poisoning everything downstream.

PS Garlett is a steal.

[Nasher 33,246]

Most of the dislike about essendon is jealously. We've been so weak for so long and Essendon have been so good for so long (and bold, if not arrogant) that it naturally breeds envy. People cloak it in discussion about unbearable supporters, but really, it is just jealously, pure and simple.

Nah. While I'm no fans of any of the following teams, I don't hold Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney or indeed anyone else in the same contempt that I hold Essendon in, and I'll readily admit to being jealous of those other clubs.

[beelzebub 22,704]

Most of the dislike about essendon is jealously.

Tim...Id say most of it is squarely pitched at the disregard by the club towards the health of its players and arrogance of narcssistic golden boy Jacques in perpetuating the lies and wrongdoings.

What some may see as a jealously is more akin to a bewilderment as to the treatment some clubs get compared to us.

[InVINCEable 358]

Hey Ashe

you've been missed.

Most of the dislike about essendon is jealously. We've been so weak for so long and Essendon have been so good for so long (and bold, if not arrogant) that it naturally breeds envy. People cloak it in discussion about unbearable supporters, but really, it is just jealously, pure and simple.

In no way shape or form, am I jealous of Essendon. I'd rather be sitting at the bottom then be in finals and be labelled 'Drug cheats' by the majority of media and AFL fans.

[Ash35 425]

I reckon most of you hated us before this current scandal broke, so I'm going with jealousy. lol

Edited October 10, 2014 by Ash35

[rjay 24,181]

I reckon most of you hated us before this current scandal broke, so I'm going with jealousy. lol

Nah! not jealousy 'Ash', it's the morons who frequented the outer at windy hill that did it for me.

[ManDee 7,096]

From The Age

Paddy Ryder's manager has confirmed that the star ruckman could retire from the AFL should he not get his wish and switch from Essendon to Port Adelaide.

In the latest blow for the Bombers during a tumultuous AFL trade period, Paul Connors said there was no chance the athletic big man could stay at Essendon amid the fall-out from the supplements scandal.

"No, that's the issue here - he's not going back to Essendon at all," Connors told 3AW on Friday.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/paddy-ryder-could-be-forced-into-retirement-says-his-manager-20141010-114byk.html#ixzz3FiPzrtIi

Edited October 10, 2014 by ManDee

[Whispering_Jack 28,118]

Jealousy?

I always admired Essendon under Sheedy. The club was strong and resilient. It won its share of flags and yes, it knocked us around in that last grand final back in 2000. It's what you expect in such a game.

I only started to dislike them more lately as they became arrogant and cocky and, when the supplements scandal deepened and I looked into and began to understand what the club had done to the game, to its players and to its supporters, I came to despise them as the quintessential cheats who were remorseless and who conducted themselves with a sense of entitlement. This was no better brought home than with their decision to extend James Hird's coaching contract in the wake of the governance sanctions against the club including Hird's twelve month suspension. The news of him being paid during that period took me to a point where I held the club in contempt and the high point of the year for me this year was when we beat them after Christian Salem's goal.

But jealous? Yes, in one respect: the way their players who had every reason to shut up shop and repay the club in kind for what it did to them, continued to put their very best out on the field far more often than not. They never gave up and won enough games to qualify for the finals for two years under tremendous adversity. Yep. I'm jealous of that because over the past four or five years I've seen plenty of Melbourne's players giving up without a whimper when the going got tough. For everything that happened to them, the Bombers never produced bruise-free football, never gave in like we did in 186 and on a dozen other occasions when we put in some of the most insipid, half-hearted, lifeless and indisciplined efforts. Sure, "jealous" probably describes it.

[Ash35 425]

Essendon, as supporters or the club, have no right to be cocky.

Things were great under Sheedy, and I think a lot of supporters, particularly of my vintage, took it for granted.

But nothing has clicked since he left, similar I guess to Man U after Sir Alex departed.

We haven't won a final in 10 years, and with the current situation and what our future prospects look like, we as a club have absolutely no right to be arrogant in any way.

But I had Carlton people still talking themselves up during the 2000's.

I guess arrogance can be inbred into a clubs culture.

I wish at times, my club showed a bit more humility.

[ignition. 1,426]

Ignition...would you mind reposting this to the http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/34746-bombers-charged-and-redacted/ Thread , very informative. I learnt something today

great post

Sure thing, I'll post it across now. Thanks for the complement

also add your take on thymosin

I haven't done as much reading on this one as it's name was released later - after I had gotten over hearing so much about the saga in the media.

Although I'll give you my take on it, it's function and why I think Dank drew the links to use it in the other thread listed above (when I get the chance this to read a bit more, or want to procrastinate my own work )

Interestingly it plays a role in regulating the actin cytoskeleton - similar to bones within a cell (I do a lot of work with this).

Actin (the protein) is also a major component of muscle and this is where Dank drew the link, although from what I can tell so far it appears to have been for all the wrong reasons and could suggest a link to the increased amount of soft tissue injuries.

ignition, thank you for that insight and info.

Stephen Dank was never on my Christmas card list.

I read the paper this morning, what Patrick Ryder and his partner has experienced over the past couple of years, and it's awful.

I don't blame the man for wanting to leave, get a fresh start elsewhere.

The club has already effectively admitted it failed in its duty of care to players - the Switkowski report and accepting the AFL penalties last August has seen to that.

So realistically, every single player has an open and shut case of breach of contract against the club.

Obviously Essendon and the AFL don't want this can of worms opened up.

The club should let Paddy Ryder go [cut this crap about if a trade can't be done he will stay] and try and get what it can for him and pray no one else triggers the clause.

It's obviously in Essendons best interests as it will only be the good players who walk because they can get more money elsewhere, and their managers will be keen to pursue that. It's like voluntary redundancy - the best people put their hands up because they can walk into new jobs. All companies that have a series of voluntary redundancy rounds end up with weak teams.

Add possible suspensions from ASAGA for the players that stay, and this is why I am preparing myself for a long stretch of non-success.

All brought upon itself.

Thanks for the response, I think we all want this to be over and pass ASAP so we don't need to hear of it anymore.

I'll always happy to see you on here Ash35.

[Lucifers Hero 37,516]

I reckon most of you hated us before this current scandal broke, so I'm going with jealousy. lol

We might hate Essendon (as we do most other AFL clubs) but we don't hate their supporters, especially those that have a soft spot for the Dees!

Edited October 11, 2014 by Lucifer's Hero

[Uncle Fester 2,841]

I reckon most of you hated us before this current scandal broke, so I'm going with jealousy. lol

I never had an issue with Essendon until recently. The couple of kicks in the gonads you gave the hawks in the 80's was good to see, and I always enjoyed Sheedy's theatrics. Even 2000 doesn't burn as I knew going into it that is was a David and Goliath match up, but David wasn't allowed to bring his sling to the game.

But this stuff is just ugly. It's blatant and unrepentant cheating, and the club from the top down wants to blame everyone but itself for its actions. It's the arrogant #standbyhird, do what it takes, we are right and ASADA and the AFL (and the rest of the world) are wrong attitude that rubs me the wrong way.

I don't dislike Essendon anymore or less than other teams, but the attitude it has displayed over the last couple of years makes me hope that it gets a smack on the nose with a rolled up newspaper complete with a crowbar inside. Maybe a couple of smacks.

The 'we can do what we want and you are wrong to try and stop us' line of thinking really needs to be killed ASAP. For the game and for your club.

[monoccular 16,595]

ignition - won't requote the whole lot again in the interests of space, but many thanks for filling us in on this - the club, it's directors, it's coaching staff, and Dr Reid for not blowing the whistle when he should have, all have a hell of a lot to answer for.

I am not a lawyer or a prosecutor but surely criminal charges could / should follow.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

I never had an issue with Essendon until recently. The couple of kicks in the gonads you gave the hawks in the 80's was good to see, and I always enjoyed Sheedy's theatrics. Even 2000 doesn't burn as I knew going into it that is was a David and Goliath match up, but David wasn't allowed to bring his sling to the game.

But this stuff is just ugly. It's blatant and unrepentant cheating, and the club from the top down wants to blame everyone but itself for its actions. It's the arrogant #standbyhird, do what it takes, we are right and ASADA and the AFL (and the rest of the world) are wrong attitude that rubs me the wrong way.

I don't dislike Essendon anymore or less than other teams, but the attitude it has displayed over the last couple of years makes me hope that it gets a smack on the nose with a rolled up newspaper complete with a crowbar inside. Maybe a couple of smacks.

The 'we can do what we want and you are wrong to try and stop us' line of thinking really needs to be killed ASAP. For the game and for your club.

Saw this on the road over the weekend, couldn't believe someone would do that to their car so I had to take a photo.

Sigh,

[Melbman2 226]

Saw this on the road over the weekend, couldn't believe someone would do that to their car so I had to take a photo.

Sigh,

The trailer at the rear is to cart all the BS that would otherwise clog the roads.