Defence:

So in defence two real glaring positions we are missing are:

- A tall defender that reads the play well and can leave their opponent and go third man up. If Frawley stays and goes back then I think Dunn would be ideal in this position. He's playing out of his skin at the moment against much bigger and taller opponents, so I think if Frawley can take the first key forward, McDonald the second then Dunn or Pederson can take the third and hopefully be the ' Josh Gibson/ Nick Maxwell kind of player' Too many times this year it's just been one on one coming into our defensive 50 and although both McDonald and Dunn have stood up, it's just not enough

- Running back flank that has high disposal efficiency: This is one our biggest killers. So many times the ball gets to McDonald, Grimes, M. Jones and it gets turned over just as quickly as it comes out which pretty much gifts the opposition a goal. That or we manage to get the ball out of the 50 and just don't have the elite kick that needs to find the next player up the ground which has found space. Howe isn't bad but we aren't finding him enough. McDonald has to drum it into his head that if he is going to kick it, it's either to someone under NO pressure or kick it long down the boundary. I think they're trying to groom a few players in toumpas, strauss and maybe clisby. The only one at this stage I know has the skills but needs to develop more is toumpas.

Midfield:

I guess we need class and grunt.

- The core group is going to develop ok

- Viney is just a bull, will need to improve his disposal but he has the endeavour to do that

- Jones, Viney, Cross, Tyson are really our core

- Really hoping to bring in some class but more development in Mitchie, Riley, Salem hopefully will help them out

Forwards:

In the forward line we're lacking players that can rotate effectively through the midfield and key positions.

- Hopefully with Hogan coming into the team this will help with structure. With Dawes and Hogan as our key forwards then gawn and jamar will be our resting third talls.

Great ball users off the half back line is the most important thing, along with more midfield depth

Those 2 things alone have cost us an extra 5-6 wins this season

They KPF issue is the biggest issue - I'm tipping Clark will back! Cannot allow too much on the young shoulders of Hogan. If it's a no-go for Clark I reckon we will pull some strings with our high picks and lure somebody over. Either way we should have 3 genuine targets instead of one which has been the chief reason behind our ladder position. We've reduced our scores against massively but actually gone slightly backwards in scores for. Inside-50s and general quality of entries has not been great, but if there's nobody down there to kick it to what hope do we have of a score. Must be rectified immediately as a priority.

Defence:

So in defence two real glaring positions we are missing are:

- A tall defender that reads the play well and can leave their opponent and go third man up. If Frawley stays and goes back then I think Dunn would be ideal in this position. He's playing out of his skin at the moment against much bigger and taller opponents, so I think if Frawley can take the first key forward, McDonald the second then Dunn or Pederson can take the third and hopefully be the ' Josh Gibson/ Nick Maxwell kind of player' Too many times this year it's just been one on one coming into our defensive 50 and although both McDonald and Dunn have stood up, it's just not enough

- Running back flank that has high disposal efficiency: This is one our biggest killers. So many times the ball gets to McDonald, Grimes, M. Jones and it gets turned over just as quickly as it comes out which pretty much gifts the opposition a goal. That or we manage to get the ball out of the 50 and just don't have the elite kick that needs to find the next player up the ground which has found space. Howe isn't bad but we aren't finding him enough. McDonald has to drum it into his head that if he is going to kick it, it's either to someone under NO pressure or kick it long down the boundary. I think they're trying to groom a few players in toumpas, strauss and maybe clisby. The only one at this stage I know has the skills but needs to develop more is toumpas.

Midfield:

I guess we need class and grunt.

- The core group is going to develop ok

- Viney is just a bull, will need to improve his disposal but he has the endeavour to do that

- Jones, Viney, Cross, Tyson are really our core

- Really hoping to bring in some class but more development in Mitchie, Riley, Salem hopefully will help them out

Forwards:

In the forward line we're lacking players that can rotate effectively through the midfield and key positions.

- Hopefully with Hogan coming into the team this will help with structure. With Dawes and Hogan as our key forwards then gawn and jamar will be our resting third talls.

* We are short of a Big key tall who can crash the packs pinch in the ruck or play on gorillas down back. I'm talking someone over 196cms & 97kegs. I wonder if Jaksch could become this?

... and a 6' 3" defender with mongrel who will smash oppo' bodies ahla Ayers/Scarlett. I had hoped Davis would have played this role, but didn't come on.

* we need an assortment of Mids to come into our list, with Real capabilities. We have some recent ones who may do something, but don't inspire much. These mids will no doubt supply us with a medium running back as we churn thru. I still think Salem is a bit small ideally for this, but he could be a small running back? Or a rover/small forward.

we have a lot of junk thru the mids atmo.

* Rookie another ruck this year, to keep the churn going. end of 2015 IMO, will see us work the ruck situation more.

Edited August 11, 201410 yr by dee-luded

* We are short of a Big key tall who can crash the packs pinch in the ruck or play on gorillas down back. I'm talking someone over 196cms & 97kegs. I wonder if Jaksch could become this?

A 6' 3" defender with mongrel who will smash oppo' bodies ahla Scarlett. I had hoped Davis would have played this role, but didn't come on.

* we need an assortment of Mids to come into our list, with Real capabilities. We have some recent ones who may do something, but don't inspire much. These mids will no doubt supply us with a medium running back as we churn thru. I still think Salem is a bit small ideally for this, but he could be a small running back? Or a rover/small forward.

we have a lot of junk thru the mids atmo.

* Rookie another ruck this year, to keep the churn going. end of 2015 IMO, will see us work the ruck situation more.

Regarding your big back men, if we recruit some forwards, pederson will probably end up down back, he's quite good one on one, great overhead mark, can pinch hit

and he's tough. Though he's only 193 i think. But the fact that he can be super competitive in the ruck is enough to suggest that with some fitness he has potential to be a great full back.

that would also free up dune to be that floating third man up along with howe. Those two could also be the main two releasing the ball out of def 50 once someone takes that full back role. .

Regarding your big back men, if we recruit some forwards, pederson will probably end up down back, he's quite good one on one, great overhead mark, can pinch hit

and he's tough. Though he's only 193 i think. But the fact that he can be super competitive in the ruck is enough to suggest that with some fitness he has potential to be a great full back.

not what I'm referring to, a tall like a boyd type, around the 200cm mark... not a 6'-4" normal key tall like a pederson. they are small these days. as is hogan really, hogan could run thru the middle IMO.

that would also free up dune to be that floating third man up along with howe.

Dunn is an elite 1 on 1 defender

Would be a waste having him as a floating 3rd man up

Dunny has found hos true calling this season, as a KPD on the oppositions big forwards

Dunn is an elite 1 on 1 defender

Would be a waste having him as a floating 3rd man up

Dunny has found hos true calling this season, as a KPD on the oppositions big forwards

Howe's doing just fine as the third man up/ intercept defender - 2 intercept marks and 9 interceptions on the weekend. If we get a Malceski type it will free Grimes up to do this as well (reading the play is his best attribute imo).

Positions we need to fill in 2015:

A coach for 2017.

Edited August 11, 201410 yr by The Song Formerly Known As

An Adem Yze type running off the half back line would be very appreciated about now. With forward presses coming into vogue (and constantly consigning us to our defensive fifty) we need a bloke who can break lines with his kick and set up forward forays from the backline.
We also need a decision to be made soon on who is taking over from Russian in the ruck in the near future. Is it going to be Spencil, Maximus Gawnius or are we looking somewhere different altogether? I think Russian has played pretty decently this year and isn't the hack a lot of people make him out to be BUT he is closer to the end than the start.
Finally, we need someone to finish the good work off. Jesse Hogan isn't the man to do it all next year. Chris Dawes is a second or third option. If we could find a decent full forward who can produce 40-50 goals a year then we will be looking decent.

We need more talented midfielders.

The fact that we go about 4 deep in there is what is killing us.

Tyson, Vince, and Cross were godsends, and need a few more gifts from Heaven.

Salem, Kent and JKH will join those Jones, Viney, Vince, and Tyson at some point but we need established mids to help right now.

Otherwise, I fear we will be running on the spot next season.

Hogan, Dawes, and Pedersen/Gawn can be moulded into a functioning forward line and our backline has the foundations of solidity if not finesse.

It's the middle we need to get more talent and ready made talent.

Backline ok with appropriate gap back up. Reckon bigger bodies who may be able to kick goals like Reid ( forward ruck) and Tomlinson (who can play both ends) come right into Roos's sights with trades, Stretch of course and then going deeper in the draft for more mids.

defense:

- a running half-back flanker with excellent decision making who regularly pinpoints disposal over 40m

midfield:

- depth

- class

- skill

- speed

- strength

forward:

- a tall marking target with excellent mobility

- minimum of two rangy half-forwards who can move through the midfield

- a small forward capable of providing defensive intensity as well as regular goalkicking nous

ruck:

- a ruckman who can float forward.

now, in saying all this, there's no reason to actually think that with another year's development why we don't already have the above on our list. it's just a matter of getting the development right, and hoping that - if they are to stay on the list (and i imagine the likes of strauss, blease and potentially tapscott and toumpas are unlikely to be at the club in 2015) that they are developed in the right manner.

unfortunately, many of the names listed below have thus far shown to be incapable of going to the requisite level:

defense:

- a running half-back flanker with excellent decision making who regularly pinpoints disposal over 40m - strauss? toumpas? salem? jkh?

midfield:

- depth - yeah, okay, this one is an issue no matter which way you try to paint it - this is where the draft will be super-important, but we're starting to build it with the likes of tyson and vince in 2014 joining n jones and viney, while riley and michie looks promising

- class - salem? toumpas? jkh? trengove?

- skill - salem? toumpas? jkh? trengove? barry?

- speed - jkh? blease? hunt? barry?

- strength - trengove? tapscott?

forward:

- a tall marking target with excellent mobility - hogan? watts?

- minimum of two rangy half-forwards who can move through the midfield - salem? toumpas? trengove? tapscott? blease? m jones? kent?

- a small forward capable of providing defensive intensity as well as regular goalkicking nous - jkh?

ruck:

- a ruckman who can float forward - gawn?

Almost forgot about Trengove.

What a godsend he would be if we could get him fit and role in the midfield (even better if we could find him a yard of pace).

But there is no value to remove the bloke and 'jackaub' posted he was 'part of the problem' whatever that means.

Everyone seems to be 'part of the problem' until they are 'part of the solution' if they have been kept around and we start to see more success.

not what I'm referring to, a tall like a boyd type, around the 200cm mark... not a 6'-4" normal key tall like a pederson. they are small these days. as is hogan really, hogan could run thru the middle IMO.

Hogan won't be running through the middle.

And it's more about weight than height I believe. An inch or two different means nothing unless the players leap is taken into account and even then, weight when splitting packs apart is more of an asset. If you can't physically move a player out of the way you'd have to jump right over the top of them and the only bloke who can do that at the moment is Howe.

It's an interesting thing that not long ago I was kind of unfussed about the very tall options high in the draft this year. But the more I've thought about it, the more I think we need to secure some real quality there, and soon.

I have full confidence in Gawn continuing to develop as a competent ruckman with a very good contribution in general play, particularly as a contested marking target. But I don't think we can put all our eggs in that (large) basket, particularly given his prior injury issues.

Conveniently, Gawn looks like he could develop to happily spend more time as either a forward or as a ruck, with the other filling the balance. This will make it easier to find a good balance for whoever new we bring in to fill the ruck stock.

That said, we really, really need some class and poise off half-back - A tall defender who can rebound effectively and/or a truly potent counter-attacking weapon the likes of "that Sydney guy" or Heppell, when he's playing back.

Midfield and even forward line I think I'm less concerned than most people. Already a lot of young players looking to develop into those roles. Disappointing that Dawes has faded so much this season. But it's not like we made it easy for him.

Almost forgot about Trengove.

What a godsend he would be if we could get him fit and role in the midfield (even better if we could find him a yard of pace).

But there is no value to remove the bloke and 'jackaub' posted he was 'part of the problem' whatever that means.

Everyone seems to be 'part of the problem' until they are 'part of the solution' if they have been kept around and we start to see more success.

Trengove and Toumpas. Picks 2 and 4...

If these guys can deliver we'll be well on our way.

Outside speed and skill, we need to get players that can run with the football and hit targets, off HBF and through our middle

My priorities would be (in order):

1) Class midfielders who can run

2) Running rebounding defenders who use the ball well

3) Tall forward (unless Clark manages to return)

Clearly more class in the midfield is a priority. We have matched it with some of the top teams this year in terms of clearances and contested footy but we have been shown up by a lack of class and talent in there. The top teams have 6-7 really good midfielders who deliver week in week out as well as a few out and out stars. We have improved our midfield significantly since last year but we still come up short against most teams in terms of pure midfield talent.

I think we are okay for tall backs. Pedersen has played good footy as a tall defender at VFL level and could provide depth for McDonald, Dunn and Garland. While Pederson has improved dramatically this year I still don't see him as a best 22 tall forward.

If Clark doesn't come back then I still think we are light on in the tall forward department. Gawn you'd hope will end up our number one ruckman in a few years and while Dawes is a good ordinary player I think we'd look far more dangerous with Hogan and another good tall forward with Dawes as your third tall. Ideally you'd love Watts to develop into this role but he hasn't really shown any signs of it.

Trengove will be our best option on the half back flank in 2015. He can make this position his own for the next 3-5 years.

(Presuming he is 100%)

why , in all honesty does anyone throw the ol' " Clark might return " into these discussions

I think we need to move past this.

Almost forgot about Trengove.

What a godsend he would be if we could get him fit and role in the midfield (even better if we could find him a yard of pace).

But there is no value to remove the bloke and 'jackaub' posted he was 'part of the problem' whatever that means.

Everyone seems to be 'part of the problem' until they are 'part of the solution' if they have been kept around and we start to see more success.

Or they hang around and get no better and go away after clogging for years

Or they hang around and get no better and go away after clogging for years

Like Dunn and Jetta...

The club and its list manager should make the best decision available to it at the time for the players they will bring and those that are out of contract - draft well, recruit well. Rise and repeat.

That is how you build a list, not by making decisions based on emotion which, I am sorry to say, I think you are advocating and that I know Neeld made. Martin for Pick 54, Moloney for nothing, Morton for nothing a year before his contract was up - these were never sound decisions whatever one feels about the player - the list sighed and creaked at the lack of desire to get value from the player (either in output on the list or through their trade/future deletion).

Those that want us to remove Tapscott, Blease, Strauss, Bail, Byrnes, Terlich, and Nicholson with Clark and Frawley gone or likely to go AND pay out the contracts of (or trade away for nothing) Evans, McKenzie, Fitzpatrick, and M.Jones AND trade out Watts and Trengove for the sake of parlaying a message to the group - those that see this as right and proper are never going to see the list being properly built; 15 players out for the possible return of Pick 4 and 30 for Frawley and Watts. And the requirement to use the last 5 or 6 picks in the ND just to fill out the list.

I shudder to think how the list would look like if Neeld had another off-season in charge - don't we all?

Well, those that advocate the massive cleanout at the end of this season - that's what you leering toward even if you don't see it.

I agree RPFC. We're still in the phase where we can only really afford to get rid of the players we don't need and hope we can bring in genuine best 22 players as their replacements through the draft, trading of early picks or FA.

We won't get enough incremental value from trading out players like Howe or Watts or Grimes who are comfortably best 22 at this stage. We will get better by replacing those who can't get or influence games with players who can thereby pushing players perceived as marginal down the best 22 list until they are fringe or no longer required.

Watts, Howe, Trengove, Grimes et al are very unlikely to deliver us a silver bullet trade that cures our ills quickly. Your list of Tapscott, Blease, Strauss, Bail, Byrnes and Nicholson will form the core of players to move on at year end. Terlich maybe, although he is still getting games and can play a role if required. I think the FD would have to be presented with a cracker of a deal to move any of the best 22 on, especially considering Clark and Frawley are unlikely to be around too.