May i direct you to this thread, my old chum:

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/36752-kicking-handballing-and-catching/

So what was the point of pointing out his age?

Tom McDonald is not a long-term solution to play as a KPD.

The reason for this is because 1) his disposal is sh!thouse and 2) his decision making is even worse.

People try and create excuses for him saying that he will improve with time and experience. However i disagree. To become a quality player (or even just a player you can rely on) they need to display at least some natural ability when it comes to skills and decision-making. McDonald has neither.

When you are working with 0 you end up with 0. If a club can improve a player by 'X' %, 'X' % of zero is still zero.

McDonald is more of a 3rd option (not tall) when it comes to getting the ball out of the back-line, in that he is neither the first or second choice to have the ball in hand.

Luckily Dunn has come in this year and held up one of these positions. But we are still a player or tall KPD short without Frawley (i see Garland as a third tall defender).

Should Frawley move on come end of year, it is imperative we bring in a quality tall defender by way of trade or the draft. That leaves the other early pick to bring in another young mid via the draft or trade period. Dream scenario would be bringing in one of Shiel or Coniglio with the compo pick, and Durdin falling through to our first rounder (but that's even more of as pipe dream than landing Roos).

Long story short, i wouldn't be relying on McDonald to be the cornerstone of our defence.

Ross Lyon would love him over Dawson, he is quicker, he is a better kick and his decision making is better.

Lyon relied heavily on Dawson at Saints

and is doing so again at Freo

He is there to beat his man nothing else, if he does happen to find the ball he is just told to kick it long or feed off to Johnson, Ibbotson, Hill and when at the Saints it was Dempster, Gram, Fisher and Nicky Dal.

Mcdonald is not the defensive problem

So what was the point of pointing out his age?

That he is young enough to work on his kicking and decision making. Look at the skills he does have, skills that can't really be taught. He is a bloody good backmen for his age. Most key position players take years! Be proud of what we have!

Ross Lyon would love him over Dawson, he is quicker, he is a better kick and his decision making is better.

Lyon relied heavily on Dawson at Saints

and is doing so again at Freo

He is there to beat his man nothing else, if he does happen to find the ball he is just told to kick it long or feed off to Johnson, Ibbotson, Hill and when at the Saints it was Dempster, Gram, Fisher and Nicky Dal.

Mcdonald is not the defensive problem

Of course i'd have him over Dawson. McDonald does very well one-on-one. He well and truly deserves his spot on the list and in the back-line, but as far as his disposal and decision making is concerned, he simply cannot be the one who brings it out of defence (nor should he be the cornerstone of our defence).

Many of the oppositions goals results directly from our turnovers in the back-line and that is hardly surprising. How many of our defenders can be said to have good disposal? Very, very few and it is a pressing need.

Edited June 22, 201411 yr by Demon Disciple

He is very good defensively. His 1%ers are high every week.

His football intelligence is very low, thus his poor decision-making.

Nevertheless, for all his faults, he's had a good year.

And will only get better.

Anytime he gets the ball, I feel as though I have some form of generalised anxiety disorder.

These days you have to have more tricks than be able to rub a 15 beep test and punch the ball.

Wow. He does have the odd brain fade and scares me a little with ball in hand but he has been the centrepiece of a defense who has been quite miserly compared to the last four years. He is young and learning and will improve.

What gets me is that he is being pilloried for getting done on the lead. You can slam jetta for that too. Or we might concede that it had something to do with ball being waltzed into their forward line way too easily last night.

The problem with his kicking is all in the ball drop. I dont understand how we can't iron out these problems with the players. They do this for a living and train 3 times a week.

A week is long time in football. This time last week he was a star.

Exactly, how quickly people turn. The coaches aren't stupid, there will be more changes made come seasons end but McDonald won't be one of them.

My take is the whole team was ordinary today and we were found out with our linking play & running off ect..

The 3rd qtr was horrendous.

Tommy Mac had a dip as far as I saw.

My only gripe would be that Jamar was poor & needs to do better than that.

His kicking and decison making is diabolical and is showing signs of getting worse. It's a conversation worth having. Criticism of players like McDonald and Grimes can be shouted down, but they are both huge liabilities at present.

For a player who , if i recall rightly , was originally drafted as fwd potential his kicking has always been rubbish most of the time. He'd be 25%-er on game day kicking anywhere. Thats not nearly good enough. Maybe it CAN be fixed. They better do it soon Id suggest.

This is exactly what I alluded to on another post whereby a good player doesnt have all the suits needed.

Whilst its most benevolent of people to continually regard him for his positives the crunch time litmus ( aka as the Scoreboard ) will judge him more accurately for his transgressions.

Last time I looked this game was actually about the scoreboard and not the warm fuzziness and love-in that many are want to have with their fav players

Id love him to be 'complete'...... currently he isnt. Thats a reality

I distinctly remember the same things almost to the word (some worse) being said about one James Frawley when he was 21.

Imagine if we delisted Frawley as a lot were suggesting and then he went on to be an AA full back at another team.....

The ball streaming into the Kangas forward line was, at times, shades of 2012,2013.....

To look at it another way - take McDonald out of the team for the whole of this season and ask how we would be travelling at this stage?

The problem McDonald has is he needs to know his limitations. Too many times he tries to run around or take an opponent on too much. If its not that its trying to be too cute with his kicking.

But unfortunately we dont have the dashing half back flanker with sizzling skills to feed it off too. Haven't had one since Aaron Davey use to play there and set us up.

I distinctly remember the same things almost to the word (some worse) being said about one James Frawley when he was 21.

Imagine if we delisted Frawley as a lot were suggesting and then he went on to be an AA full back at another team.....

The ball streaming into the Kangas forward line was, at times, shades of 2012,2013.....

To look at it another way - take McDonald out of the team for the whole of this season and ask how we would be travelling at this stage?

I get your point...but we're currently 4th last.. just saying

Edited June 22, 201411 yr by beelzebub

I get your point...but we're currently 4th last.. just saying

More about how we are travelling as a team than ladder position although with a couple of games we should have won earlier in the season we would be just outside the 8.

Last year we would have been happy with 4th last at this point in the season.

Edited June 23, 201411 yr by DeeMfc

Don't care if this bites me on the back Jetta or Pedersen style. I'm putting it out there.

It's not the kicking. With time that could improve.

It's not even the defending errors that happen occasionally, they'll get better and he does a lot right.

It's the lack of pace for a guy who's meant to have speed.

It's the incredibly bad decision making with ball in hand regardless of kicking.

It's the lack of help he provides team mates by running to help, at one time today Grimes got the ball under pressure and turned towards the boundary with Ziebell on his hammer. McDonald had run back behind Grimes to where he couldn't help at all instead of towards where Grimes would need help, and Grimes (less said about him the better) is nothing but consistent.

I'm over Tom McDonald and I'm now at the stage where I'd love to be proven wrong. Personally I'd rather start again with someone who's a footballer first not an athlete.

FOOL!

Tom McDonald is going to be playing for Melbourne for 10-13 more years, barring injury or free agency. Whilst his disposal is not as good as others, his defensive output is often top notch and whilst Petrie had the chance to kick 4-5 goals, he didnt and yet again McDonald only had one goal kicked on him. He runs hard off his opponent which works if we are able to maintain the footy, but when we turned it over so easily Petrie did not bother chasing McDonald and gave him several easy marks.

His disposal problem is a bit of an issue, but it is also to do with the options that are presented to him, he isnt going to be a 50 m pin point passer, but if he can run the footy for 20 m and get the ball to a one v one 50 odd metres away or over the boundary line then this is an ideal passage of play. That being said, he has been one of the best this year week in week out and will be top 10 in our BNF

From Roos post match (Sydney game)

Demons defender Tom McDonald was exceptional in his role on Swans star forward Lance Franklin, limiting him to just one goal (from a dubious free kick) and seven disposals, before he left the field with a right knee injury.

"Tom has been outstanding this year, he's done a really good job," Roos said.

"He was outstanding against Buddy."

Let them. Hawthorn wouldn't touch a key defender who can't kick. Or they wouldn't put him in the team until he learns how. And they always defend and run with perfect intelligence. When their defenders get beat (Cheney and Schoenmakers, even Gibson) it's because one on one they get beat, it happens.

Cheney was chastised by our supporters for his lack of kicking skills. his kicking is average.

Then your profile name is true.

your trying to tell me garland has played well the last 3 games?

so he shanks a few. have a look at the stats on the melbourne website. 1%ers he is double anyone else on our list! that double cross/viney etc. he is a great stopper and still so young. didnt hear anyone complain about his decision making in the last minute of the Dons match when he took a risk and ran the ball through the corridor to help set up salems goal. i like how he takes risks and he will get better with this.

we have a lot bigger problems than tommy mac

Don't care if this bites me on the back Jetta or Pedersen style. I'm putting it out there.

It's not the kicking. With time that could improve.

It's not even the defending errors that happen occasionally, they'll get better and he does a lot right.

It's the lack of pace for a guy who's meant to have speed.

It's the incredibly bad decision making with ball in hand regardless of kicking.

It's the lack of help he provides team mates by running to help, at one time today Grimes got the ball under pressure and turned towards the boundary with Ziebell on his hammer. McDonald had run back behind Grimes to where he couldn't help at all instead of towards where Grimes would need help, and Grimes (less said about him the better) is nothing but consistent.

I'm over Tom McDonald and I'm now at the stage where I'd love to be proven wrong. Personally I'd rather start again with someone who's a footballer first not an athlete.

Totally agree with everything you have said and I have previously posted similar comments about McDonald during the past two weeks...He is not up to it... !!

Tom McDonald is going to be playing for Melbourne for 10-13 more years, barring injury or free agency. Whilst his disposal is not as good as others, his defensive output is often top notch and whilst Petrie had the chance to kick 4-5 goals, he didnt and yet again McDonald only had one goal kicked on him. He runs hard off his opponent which works if we are able to maintain the footy, but when we turned it over so easily Petrie did not bother chasing McDonald and gave him several easy marks.

His disposal problem is a bit of an issue, but it is also to do with the options that are presented to him, he isnt going to be a 50 m pin point passer, but if he can run the footy for 20 m and get the ball to a one v one 50 odd metres away or over the boundary line then this is an ideal passage of play. That being said, he has been one of the best this year week in week out and will be top 10 in our BNF

Which bloody game were you watching and if he is here for ONE more year we are on the wrong track...!!!

More about how we are travelling as a team than ladder position although with a couple of games we should have won earlier in the season we would be just outside the 8.

Last year we would have been happy with 4th last at this point in the season.

NOT THIS YEAR !!!!