The Jack Viney bump that never was!

[DeeSpencer 25,683]

Just had a look on the AFL's crappy website, it was hard to tell but didn't even look like he hit him high, got him in the shoulder.

He probably did but they are going to slow it down and zoom it in and see the exact images Ralphy posted. That's the problem with slow mo, you end up seeing things if they are there or not.

[DeeSpencer 25,683]

Look at the contact paused and you will see that the 195cms Lynch, drops lower at the moment of contact, after being pushed forward into Viney, bending his knees, and altering the position he would have been bumped. Without the push or Lynch lowering his height the bump is the standard shoulder to shoulder.

The problem here is that another player has pushed Lynch forward and Lynch himself has lowered his height. Neither of these is the fault of the player bumping.

Everything is the fault of the player bumping. However I agree with the above which is why I think it looks a lot more like negligent contact than reckless, but it's still more than the accidental level of contact needed to get off.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,209]

Just saw a replay. Vineys right shoulder to Lynch's jaw.

Hate to say it but he's cooked boys

It's probably going to come down to which side of his jaw is broken, if it's the right side it means it came from contact with Georgiou, if it's the left it was Viney's shoulder.

[titan_uranus 25,014]

If you choose to bump and you make contact to the head, you're in trouble.

The question becomes whether he made contact to Lynch's head. On one view it doesn't seem so, but on another it looks like he does.

I won't be surprised at all if he cops weeks for this, though he shouldn't.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,048]

Look at the contact paused and you will see that the 195cms Lynch, drops lower at the moment of contact, after being pushed forward into Viney, bending his knees, and altering the position he would have been bumped. Without the push or Lynch lowering his height the bump is the standard shoulder to shoulder.

The problem here is that another player has pushed Lynch forward and Lynch himself has lowered his height. Neither of these is the fault of the player bumping.

The MRP has a long and diabolical history of punishing for the injury rather than the action. This wouldn't stand up in a real court, but sadly the AFL gets to run it's little kangaroo court sideshow without being held to any realistic legal standards. They have repeatedly said that if you bump and the player is injured you will go, regardless of whether or not the bump was legally executed. Even if they were to decide that the height wasn't an issue, the fact that the player has a broken jaw more or less guarantees that they will go for him. I think that his best hope is to deny that it is a bump at all and say that they were both going for the ball and he simply turned his body and braced, which is of course the correct way to attack the ball in that situation. I seriously doubt that this will be enough to avoid sanction (see again the Ziebel case), but it may get him a little less time off.

[Pennant St Dee 13,172]

Look at the contact paused and you will see that the 195cms Lynch, drops lower at the moment of contact, after being pushed forward into Viney, bending his knees, and altering the position he would have been bumped. Without the push or Lynch lowering his height the bump is the standard shoulder to shoulder.

The problem here is that another player has pushed Lynch forward and Lynch himself has lowered his height. Neither of these is the fault of the player bumping.

It's accidental I agree but it is high, the MRP can go either way on these things

[Dr. Gonzo 24,209]

The MRP has a long and diabolical history of punishing for the injury rather than the action. This wouldn't stand up in a real court, but sadly the AFL gets to run it's little kangaroo court sideshow without being held to any realistic legal standards. They have repeatedly said that if you bump and the player is injured you will go, regardless of whether or not the bump was legally executed. Even if they were to decide that the height wasn't an issue, the fact that the player has a broken jaw more or less guarantees that they will go for him. I think that his best hope is to deny that it is a bump at all and say that they were both going for the ball and he simply turned his body and braced, which is of course the correct way to attack the ball in that situation. I seriously doubt that this will be enough to avoid sanction (see again the Ziebel case), but it may get him a little less time off.

Yeah and even thinking about this some more, regardless of how Lynch broke his jaw (contact with Viney, Georgiou or the ground) the fact that the action caused a broken jaw means Viney will be held responsible. Just another reason why the AFL is [censored].

[What 18,810]

if this is even looked at it will be a farce

Anyone remember when footy was a contact sport?

[PaulRB 6,362]

Agree, Viney is running at the ball, with eyes on a loose ball, braces for impact, impacts as opposition player being pushed forward, he keeps his eyes eyes on ball and emerges with it.

Umpire calls play on, no-one on field sees Viney to have done anything wrong (i.e. no remonstrations), commentators say nothing was untoward...

We're making a mountain out of molehill here.

Edited May 3, 2014 by PaulRB

[demoniac 1,333]

The MRP is very much Chooklotto. The Darren Glass penalty for jumping and cannoning front on into a player attempting to mark was a joke.

If Viney does fall foul of the MRP we could raise the Sylvia v Josh Kennedy (WC) precedent.

[Scoop Junior 3,471]

The MRP has a long and diabolical history of punishing for the injury rather than the action.

Agree with this 100%. You need to punish the intention and the conduct, not the fact that an unfortunate / freak injury results from what is otherwise legitimate conduct. It means that dog acts which do not result in injury do not get appropriately punished. Basically we have a system where it's just about luck as to whether a player is injured or not.

The MRP would probably give a guy who tripped over on the street and accidentally fell across someone's leg and broke it a 10 year jail term, while giving a fine to someone who shot at another person's head but just missed.

[Carrot Top 947]

Agree, Viney is running at the ball, with eyes on a loose ball, braces for impact, impacts as opposition player being pushed forward, he keeps his eyes eyes on ball and emerges with it.

Umpire calls play on, no-one on field sees Viney to have done anything wrong (i.e. no remonstrations), commentators say nothing was untoward...

We're making a mountain out of molehill here.

I'm with you in that I think it was nothing, but I'm still gunshy. When it comes to the MRP handing out illogical spankings we seem to end up with a red arse.

[TGR 1,367]

I reckon he will get off. Viney's bump was OK. Don't know if the rules go as far as an indirect ricochet.

[Gorgoroth 12,947]

If Viney gets cited they should challenge it. Stuff the MRP, they get so much wrong but people won't risk an extra week. In cases when they should.

[monoccular 17,426]

Don't remember anyone getting weeks for breaking Viney's jaw in the vfl.... Or Sylvia's a few years earlier

Wojo got suspended for that hit on Viney.

Wojo elbowed him as I recall...and ended up with effectively 2 weeks or so.

Viney braced himself for an imminent impact, eyes on the ball.....the injury was (it appears) was caused by Lynch falling into Viney. No way he could avoid the impact.

But......

[monoccular 17,426]

I reckon he will get off. Viney's bump was OK. Don't know if the rules go as far as an indirect ricochet.

But AFL MRP are masters at rules on the run.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,209]

Just watching the replay this morning and looking at it in real time I doubt he will even get cited. Viney was running at the ball and once Lynch took possession Viney basically stopped running to the ball, Lynch/Georgiou kept running in his direction and viney turned to brace for the impact. Viney didn't keep running through and line him up with a shirtfront which it could look like in slow-mo from the reverse angle.

[daisycutter 29,613]

bump.jpg

bump2.jpg

Sadly, I think that's head-high contact right there.

i can't see that , at least in those pics

[monoccular 17,426]

Just watching the replay this morning and looking at it in real time I doubt he will even get cited. Viney was running at the ball and once Lynch took possession Viney basically stopped running to the ball, Lynch/Georgiou kept running in his direction and viney turned to brace for the impact. Viney didn't keep running through and line him up with a shirtfront which it could look like in slow-mo from the reverse angle.

He was practically stopped, just bracing.

If you aren't allowed to brace yourself for an impact what should you do? Too late to duck (which Viney doesn't do anyway).

And as pointed out, Viney is much shorter, and didn't jump up.....Lynch fell (possibly could be construed as pushed**) into him.

Unavoidable contact.

** knowing the MRP's idiosyncrasies maybe Viney and Georgiou will both be cited - a new rule called conspiracy.

[Matt Demon 1,418]

The MRP will watch in slow motion and from what I'm looking at this morning on the replay Viney clearly braces to bump and makes forceful contact with Lynch's jaw. The medical report will show a broken jaw so IMO he'll definitely get weeks.

[jnrmac 20,060]

Let me get this right.... Two players go for ball, one braces for impact, he his guilty because the other player doesn't? Is that how the rule works?

[pantaloons 2,019]

On a positive note, if he does get suspended, the Free Demon Jack Facebook page and assorted paraphernalia from a few years ago can make a comeback.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,209]

The MRP will watch in slow motion and from what I'm looking at this morning on the replay Viney clearly braces to bump and makes forceful contact with Lynch's jaw. The medical report will show a broken jaw so IMO he'll definitely get weeks.

They'll watch it in real time first and see that Viney didn't initiate the contact. Have a look at it and look at where Viney is when Lynch takes possession and where he is when contact is made, he barely moves.

[Matt Demon 1,418]

Let me get this right.... Two players go for ball, one braces for impact, he his guilty because the other pla todoesn't? Is that how the rule works?

I understand your frustration jnrmac, it frustrates me too but the rule is pretty black & white these days. If you choose to bump you suffer any consequences.

[Matt Demon 1,418]

They'll watch it in time first and see that Viney didn't initiate the contact. Have a look at it and look at where Viney is when Lynch takes possession and where he is when contact is made, he barely moves.

I do understand your argument & really do hope that they see it that way. Personally I'm not confident but lets wait & see, fingers crossed.