Changes for Round 7 vs Adelaide

[The Chazz 4,077]

  On 28/04/2014 at 05:10, Demonstrative said:

Controversial to drop Chris Dawes?

Out: Dawes, Bail, Byrnes

In: Fitz, Kent, Blease

Can someone who has access to deep stats please tell me how many times the ball was kicked to Chris Dawes and how many times that resulted in a gain to Sydney? He demands the ball and then doesn't win it. Frawley should be the number one target till J Hogan is in. Pederson is far better at the moment as well. Time to try out another forward again, like Fitz.

Before anyone blathers on about Dawes' leadership and verbal abilities, just look at how many goals we scored. Time to restructure again and bring in goal kickers blease, kent and fitz.

Controversial? Absolutely not, you're entitled to your opinion.

Out of curiosity though, did Dawes have an affair with your wife or something?

[jacey 333]

  On 28/04/2014 at 05:10, Demonstrative said:

Can someone who has access to deep stats please tell me how many times the ball was kicked to Chris Dawes and how many times that resulted in a gain to Sydney? He demands the ball and then doesn't win it. Frawley should be the number one target till J Hogan is in. Pederson is far better at the moment as well. Time to try out another forward again, like Fitz.

Before anyone blathers on about Dawes' leadership and verbal abilities, just look at how many goals we scored. Time to restructure again and bring in goal kickers blease, kent and fitz.

Dawes has been excellent since his return considering his lack of match conditioning.

you bring up Fitz as a replacement. wtf?

What has Fitz done that pushes his claim in the last few weeks. In his first 3 games, Fitz was worst then ineffective.

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

  On 28/04/2014 at 05:10, Demonstrative said:

Controversial to drop Chris Dawes?

Out: Dawes, Bail, Byrnes

In: Fitz, Kent, Blease

Can someone who has access to deep stats please tell me how many times the ball was kicked to Chris Dawes and how many times that resulted in a gain to Sydney? He demands the ball and then doesn't win it. Frawley should be the number one target till J Hogan is in. Pederson is far better at the moment as well. Time to try out another forward again, like Fitz.

Before anyone blathers on about Dawes' leadership and verbal abilities, just look at how many goals we scored. Time to restructure again and bring in goal kickers blease, kent and fitz.

Thank you, I needed a laugh before I left work

[Deecisive 1,709]

  On 28/04/2014 at 00:09, billy2803 said:

I'm a Watts lover, but bloody hell he is making it hard for me to continually defend him.

If he were to remain in the team this week, which I personnaly don't think he or Howe should, I would have him play 30-40% of the game in the ruck. He's got a leap, he's got height, he's got the smart "touch" where he can put the ball to the advantage of a teammate.

Will it open him up for potential injury? No, I don't believe so, and even if you do, what's the worst that can happen in a ruck contest that couldn't happen in any other contest around a ground?

Playing ruck demands physical contact, there's nowhere to hide, you have to hit bodies and wrestle, and most importantly for Jack, your body will get hit and you will be wrestled against.

If Cam Pederson can prove to be an effective 2nd ruck, then I'm sure Watts can. I know who I rate higher out of those two, although the gap is fast diminishing.

watts may have a good jump but a lot of ruck work is wrestling which is not really jacks forte. i would try him up forward with clear instructions on providing defensive pressure when the opposition gets the ball, even if that at times means leaving his man alone.

[dee-luded 2,959]

  On 26/04/2014 at 13:35, titan_uranus said:

That's no reason to select him.

Howe's game tonight was no better than Watts, not at all. I think some just hate Watts so much they want to make sure we all think he's awful. He is, but Howe was just as bad tonight.

yes but you get dropped or selected on weeks of form either way. I think Howe is on the same bus as Watts but has a couple of stops up his sleeve just yet.

Watt's has run out of myki credits. his time is finished. he has to earn more credits, before he can catch this bus again.

[ManDee 7,411]

  On 28/04/2014 at 04:16, billy2803 said:

For a start, he would rarely be against Jacobs. But even if he is, Watts should kill him around the ground and at ground level.

It's also not to put him in there to look at the win/loss column of the hitouts, it's getting him to compete in a contested situation. He he can compete, that's his main goal.

He's soft because we are soft on him.

In the ruck Watts would not stand a chance, I think Max King would do a better job and I am not advocating picking him. (Rookie anyway)

If you don't have strength below the waist you need to be fast, with a good leap and courageous.

Is there a player at Melbourne that you think Watts could out strengthen? Think Pedersen, he would just push him away, and I don't rate him in the ruck. (Effort lately 8/10).

I don't know if you have played in the ruck but it is hard work, it hurts, you get knees into everywhere from your thighs to your ribs back and front and you come off feeling like a punching bag, and your arms feel like lead. If your lucky you only get a couple of elbows to the head each game. The biggest ugliest brutes on opposition sides just want to jump into you and inflict pain. This is no place for Jack Watts.

Watts is soft

a. Because he does not want to get hurt.

b. Too smart to get hurt.

c. Thinks it is only a job, why get hurt.

If you put him in the ruck he will give up completely and be lost.

The only step I see is several weeks at Casey with clear instructions as to what is expected. If he can't deliver, offer him up for trade.

PS> I am a Watts believer, I think he is capable but a late bloomer. I love his qualities, despise his failings.

Edit ; Spelling.

[Deecisive 1,709]

I do like the idea of Terlich up forward possibly taking Shannon Brynes spot, i think he would chase harder and would get more ball, yes he will cough it up a few times, but then so does brynes so no change there. garland into the backline. I would like to see Gawn in the side but Jamar has done enough to keep his spot. Riley in also. I would love to see some of our on ballers rested in the forward line, it is often less congested than the bench. I still not sure I like the idea of resting a players after he kicks a goal, i.e. have him run 75 meters to the bench, sit down for 2 mins and then run another 75 meters back to position does sound like it could take more out of some of our players than just staying in position.

[FarNorthernD 5,863]

Whilst it wasn't Georgiou's best game, there is a lot to like about his attitude. Love the way he stood up to the $10m man. No backward steps, no beg your pardons. Alex didn't give a stuff Lance is a superstar and he was pick 347.

The glamour boy dives like a soccer player, lies on the ground until he realises he ain't getting a free then jumps up and carries on like the overpaid prat he is. Franklin should be suspended for bringing the game into disrepute. Georgiou joins Cross, Viney and Jones in my list of players who I don't need to worry about if they will give their all on the footy field

[old dee 24,097]

Unless there are MI's or suspensions I don't think anyone will be dropped.

Two reasons IMO

- Roos like to give confidence to players

- Who on earth in the reserves is better than those that played on Saturday night?

[ManDee 7,411]

  On 28/04/2014 at 05:56, old dee said:

Unless there are MI's or suspensions I don't think anyone will be dropped.

Two reasons IMO

- Roos like to give confidence to players

- Who on earth in the reserves is better than those that played on Saturday night?

Out- Watts - No effort Bail - No skill Byrnes No longer has it.

In - Gawn - A real ruckman that can play forward + 18 disposals Riley g&d (get back at Adelaide) McKenzie back to tackling best

[TheoX 1,222]

Georgiou can get away with 93.75 pts

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-28/no-bans-for-gibson-young-

[monoccular 17,761]

  On 28/04/2014 at 03:20, P-man said:

I'll be surprised if Watts or Howe are dropped, and I'll be even more surprised if BOTH are dropped, but I certainly won't complain.

I guess that is pretty obvious. A unlikely, B unlikely, A+B even more unlikely :-))

  On 28/04/2014 at 05:52, fndee said:

Whilst it wasn't Georgiou's best game, there is a lot to like about his attitude. Love the way he stood up to the $10m man. No backward steps, no beg your pardons. Alex didn't give a stuff Lance is a superstar and he was pick 347.

The glamour boy dives like a soccer player, lies on the ground until he realises he ain't getting a free then jumps up and carries on like the overpaid prat he is. Franklin should be suspended for bringing the game into disrepute. Georgiou joins Cross, Viney and Jones in my list of players who I don't need to worry about if they will give their all on the footy field

What you see is what you get - a bit of Ingo in him. Love his endeavour and never-say-die approach.

[DeeSpencer 26,719]

FB: Georgiou Pedersen Clisby

HB: Grimes McDonald Terlich

C: Vince Jones Howe

HF: Bail Dawes Dunn

FF: Frawley Gawn JKH

Foll: Jamar Tyson Cross

Int: Viney McKenzie Salem M. Jones

Out: Watts, Byrnes, Jetta

In: Gawn, Clisby, McKenzie

May as well play Gawn, he has great upside and has a crack. Byrnes is a waste of space, so is Jetta, doesn't get the footy forward or back.

I'd give Howe one last chance and this time try him wing. Might be the best way to get the ball in his hands. He has good endurance so let's see it in action.

[old dee 24,097]

  On 28/04/2014 at 06:02, ManDee said:

Out- Watts - No effort Bail - No skill Byrnes No longer has it.

In - Gawn - A real ruckman that can play forward + 18 disposals Riley g&d (get back at Adelaide) McKenzie back to tackling best

Gawn is a Ruckman are you saying play him at Full forward?

Riley could not get a regular game at Adelaide, I saw him at windy hill which was admittedly his first game after a bad injury but he looked like a VFL player to me.

In his favor he has a red hot go which would put in front of Watts and Howe.

Mckenzie we have seen lots of him. He is a good VFL player who struggles at senior level

[dpositive 1,838]

While Watts is the almost obvious out as ineffectual I just cant see how we can let him get away with this performance by letting him return to a lower level where he will slope around picking up 30 or so possessions against lesser calibre players.

What is of concern is his hardness and attack on the ball with so many examples given in this and other threads that it not worth repeating. However I doubt he is going to get better at this at the lower level. He needs to be told by Roos and I reckon 3 quarter time might have just been the beginning and I did like the comment made about the players watching and analysing together.

I also reckon Watts wasnt the only one not putting pressure on players. I did notice a couple of times he positioned himself to force a sydney player to dispose of the ball where he didnt want to go and this resulted in a turnover.

But most of the time all over the field we were under pressure when we disposed of the ball but we allowed opponents to have space and get balanced this is why they can hit a target.

I watched most games on Tv over the weekend and this was a common feature players who delivered accurately were usually well balanced and not under extreme pressure players under pressure usually just went short anywhere to a player with space they often created the space after disposal or went to a space and got the ball back.

We just seem to be so slow with our thinking that we are putting ourselves under pressure and not delivering well.

This is something that needs plenty of work at training. Jack Watts is one of the few players who does seem to be able to make space and get balanced but is now so confused that he still manages to bugger it up.

Dont know the answer but I hope Roos does.

[Pennant St Dee 13,474]

  On 28/04/2014 at 06:02, ManDee said:

Out- Watts - No effort Bail - No skill Byrnes No longer has it.

In - Gawn - A real ruckman that can play forward + 18 disposals Riley g&d (get back at Adelaide) McKenzie back to tackling best

Doesn't that contradict itself

Watts has all the skill in the world, but doesn't on face value appear to be putting in the effort (I personally think it goes beyond that)

Bail has little talent but always puts in 100% and provides pressure in the forward line as he is asked to do, his effort is unquestionable

[Deespicable 2,886]

  On 28/04/2014 at 05:10, Demonstrative said:

Controversial to drop Chris Dawes?

Out: Dawes, Bail, Byrnes

In: Fitz, Kent, Blease

Can someone who has access to deep stats please tell me how many times the ball was kicked to Chris Dawes and how many times that resulted in a gain to Sydney? He demands the ball and then doesn't win it. Frawley should be the number one target till J Hogan is in. Pederson is far better at the moment as well. Time to try out another forward again, like Fitz.

Before anyone blathers on about Dawes' leadership and verbal abilities, just look at how many goals we scored. Time to restructure again and bring in goal kickers blease, kent and fitz.

Good of you to provide a distraction to the Watts' bloggers and assuming you are from earth, you might want to consider inside 50s when assessing how many goals we scored - usually a good guide.

Given that Frawley was also quieter, you also might want to note that they had better opponents this week with AA defender Ted Richards and Heath Grundy wearing them along with double-teaming.

Anyway the issue with selection this week is whether Gawn can get back into the side and how it might effect team balance given that Jamar was solid and Pedo has been one of our better players in recent weeks.

With Adelaide likely to have three big talls up forward this week - Jenkins, Pods and Tex - as well as Lynch, Pedo can probably play solely as a defender (more possible now with Garland unlikely) and take Jenkins. Tom Mc would get Tex on return, Georgiou cop Pods and Dunny on the more mobile Lynch.

I also think McKenzie is a monte to play and deserves his spot because he was BOG in twos and apparently laid nine tackles as well as most disposals.

So the two clear changes are:

In McKenzie and Gawn

Out Jetta (yes I know he's skilful but he can't win it - he's now played 43 games and has probably had 20 disposals or more in just two of them), Byrnes (ditto Jetta's comments about good skill but can't get it).

I'd also make Howe the sub this week, thereby freeing up room for Gawn in the forward line rotation.

I'd also be very happy for Blease (or Kent if fit) to come in for Bail but can't see it happening.

What also worries me is that last week we fielded one of the oldest sides in the comp - only 5 guys under 22 - and we are meant to be in a development stage.

[ManDee 7,411]

  On 28/04/2014 at 06:23, Pennant St Dee said:

Doesn't that contradict itself

Watts has all the skill in the world, but doesn't on face value appear to be putting in the effort (I personally think it goes beyond that)

Bail has little talent but always puts in 100% and provides pressure in the forward line as he is asked to do, his effort is unquestionable

No I don't think so, successful AFL players require skill and effort. One without the other should have them playing VFL level.

In a good side you need both. We want to be a good side. Lets start now.

[DeeSpencer 26,719]

  On 28/04/2014 at 06:16, dpositive said:

While Watts is the almost obvious out as ineffectual I just cant see how we can let him get away with this performance by letting him return to a lower level where he will slope around picking up 30 or so possessions against lesser calibre players.

What is of concern is his hardness and attack on the ball with so many examples given in this and other threads that it not worth repeating. However I doubt he is going to get better at this at the lower level. He needs to be told by Roos and I reckon 3 quarter time might have just been the beginning and I did like the comment made about the players watching and analysing together.

I also reckon Watts wasnt the only one not putting pressure on players. I did notice a couple of times he positioned himself to force a sydney player to dispose of the ball where he didnt want to go and this resulted in a turnover.

But most of the time all over the field we were under pressure when we disposed of the ball but we allowed opponents to have space and get balanced this is why they can hit a target.

I watched most games on Tv over the weekend and this was a common feature players who delivered accurately were usually well balanced and not under extreme pressure players under pressure usually just went short anywhere to a player with space they often created the space after disposal or went to a space and got the ball back.

We just seem to be so slow with our thinking that we are putting ourselves under pressure and not delivering well.

This is something that needs plenty of work at training. Jack Watts is one of the few players who does seem to be able to make space and get balanced but is now so confused that he still manages to bugger it up.

Dont know the answer but I hope Roos does.

I think the VFL is the best thing for him. 3 or so weeks of getting 30+ possessions is what he needs. He needs to be told he has to be the man to go get the ball. So put him down a level and let him get kick after kick. Even if he's winning them easily he might find it a habit. Same with his defensive game. Having slower and less fit and strong opponents might force him to actually understand tackling and defending for once in his life.

He needs confidence in the way Roos wants him to play. Time for that to be found in the VFL. He'll also endear himself to the fans and his fellow players a lot more if he can force his way in to the team for the first time in his life.

[old dee 24,097]

  On 28/04/2014 at 06:23, Pennant St Dee said:

Doesn't that contradict itself

Watts has all the skill in the world, but doesn't on face value appear to be putting in the effort (I personally think it goes beyond that)

Bail has little talent but always puts in 100% and provides pressure in the forward line as he is asked to do, his effort is unquestionable

Agree PSD it is just a pity he has below average disposal

[ManDee 7,411]

  On 28/04/2014 at 06:12, old dee said:

Gawn is a Ruckman are you saying play him at Full forward?

Riley could not get a regular game at Adelaide, I saw him at windy hill which was admittedly his first game after a bad injury but he looked like a VFL player to me.

In his favor he has a red hot go which would put in front of Watts and Howe.

Mckenzie we have seen lots of him. He is a good VFL player who struggles at senior level

Gawn in the ruck swapping with Jamar at FF Yes 2 ruckmen, both capable of a mark & goal or 2.

Riley, you answered that yourself.

McKenzie in for Byrnes. - Salem to play Byrnes role.

[old dee 24,097]

  On 28/04/2014 at 06:30, ManDee said:

No I don't think so, successful AFL players require skill and effort. One without the other should have them playing VFL level.

In a good side you need both. We want to be a good side. Lets start now.

I agree you need both.

However If I have to Choose between Watts ( lots of talent but no idea of the effort required ) and Bail ( Understands the effort needed but sometimes misses out on the skill required ) I am punting on Bail.

One simple reason first you have to get the ball.

If you cannot do that all the skill in the world achieves ZERO.

[ManDee 7,411]

  On 28/04/2014 at 06:40, old dee said:

I agree you need both.

However If I have to Choose between Watts ( lots of talent but no idea of the effort required ) and Bail ( Understands the effort needed but sometimes misses out on the skill required ) I am punting on Bail.

One simple reason first you have to get the ball.

If you cannot do that all the skill in the world achieves ZERO.

I dropped them both, no choice required.

Out- Watts - No effort Bail - No skill Byrnes No longer has it.

In - Gawn - A real ruckman that can play forward + 18 disposals Riley g&d (get back at Adelaide) McKenzie back to tackling best

[old dee 24,097]

  On 28/04/2014 at 06:37, ManDee said:

Gawn in the ruck swapping with Jamar at FF Yes 2 ruckmen, both capable of a mark & goal or 2.

Riley, you answered that yourself.

McKenzie in for Byrnes. - Salem to play Byrnes role.

A Ruckman at full forward does not work anymore in todays game they are two slow unable to provide defensive pressure.

Riley Still don't think he is up to it.

I actually think Byrnes offers more than Mckenzie.

[DeeSpencer 26,719]

  On 28/04/2014 at 06:43, old dee said:

A Ruckman at full forward does not work anymore in todays game they are two slow unable to provide defensive pressure.

Riley Still don't think he is up to it.

I actually think Byrnes offers more than Mckenzie.

Worked fine for Sydney against us. Works fine for Hawthorn every week. Works well for Geelong.

As a young side playing young forwards like JKH and Salem I'd rather not play 2 lumbering rucks. But if the choice is between Gawn and Pedersen I'd go for Gawn. He actually can take a grab forward unlike Pedersen who really struggles to impact at all when forward. Plus he requires a genuine tall defender.

Pedersen can then go back to his best position as a tall defender and Dunn or Georgiou can play as medium defenders freeing up Terlich and Grimes to hopefully run more at half back. Dunn or Georgiou playing smaller then replace Jetta who whilst an ok defender is no better than those guys and will always be limited for height. That way I hope we get more intercept marks and rebound from the back 50.