Gawn over Spencer anyday of the week.

One reasonable game does not maketh the man..

However I do like Spencers aggression though & he played ok. Well done to him.

TT don't forget one plays and the other is a near permanent member of the casualty ward.

Some physical stats on ruckmen.

John Nichols Carlton 189cm 105kg

John Sammy Newman 190cm 98kg

Carl Ditterich 194cm 96kg

Big Bob Johnson 198cm 96kg

Simon Madden 198cm 99kg

Shane Mumford 199cm 108kg

Jim Stynes 199cm 99kg

Steven O'Dwyer 201cm 101kg

Jake Spencer 203cm 103kg

Max Gawn 208cm 106kg

Aaron Sandilands 211cm 120kg

Yes they are getting bigger! But there is still a fair bit of "it's not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" -- Mark Twain

edit - added Carl - plenty of fight

big Carl was always talked about back in the 1960's, as 6'-6"

and he was a good bit taller than Neil Balme

TT don't forget one plays and the other is a near permanent member of the casualty ward.

Very True... but good golly... its like watching a reincarnation of one Uncoordinated Strawbs O'Dwyer with Spencer....

big Carl was always talked about back in the 1960's, as 6'-6"

and he was a good bit taller than Neil Balme

I know I shouldn't trust Wikipedia Balme listed as 194cm 104kg - Boyles 193cm

Carl Ditterich Personal information Date of birth 10 October 1945 (age 68) Original team East Brighton Debut Round 1, 20 April 1963, St Kilda

v. Melbourne, at Junction Oval Height/Weight 194 cm / 96 kg Playing career¹

St Kilda (1963–1972, 1976–1978)

203 games, 156 goals

Melbourne (1973–1975, 1978–1980)

82 games, 43 goals

Coaching career

Melbourne (1979–1980)

44 games – 11 wins, 33 losses

¹ Playing statistics correct to end of 2005 season.

Career highlights

• St Kilda Best and Fairest 1968
• Melbourne Best and Fairest 1973
• St Kilda Captain 1976–1977
• Melbourne Captain-Coach 1979–1980

Carl Ditterich

People - D

Born: Data Withheld

Died: Living or Status Not Known

Height: 193cm (AFL Tables)

I remember Ditterich's first game - just killed us. But in my mind's eye it's at the G. Am I losing my marbles?

I remember Ditterich's first game - just killed us. But in my mind's eye it's at the G. Am I losing my marbles?

No it was at the Junction Oval. I was on the wing when he hit his first Demon. Graham Wise was our ruckman who was a bit shorter than Carl.

That same day Baldock in the mud did something I have never seen repeated. It was just in front of me. He ran to the boundary with two Demons behind him chasing the ball. He reached the ball near the boundary and slapped the ball into the ground, it bounced up to him, he then turned and baulked both Dees and ran into CHF where he bombed it into the goal square, where a saint marked it.

It was breathtaking. Baldock was about 180cms and played CHF. A genius on the footy field.

"It is 50 years since he burst on to the scene as a 17-year-old from East Brighton, making a breathtaking debut against Melbourne in the opening round of 1963. Amazingly, Ditterich had been to only one VFL game in his life - to watch his beloved Geelong play St Kilda at the same ground the previous year.

"The thing I remember most about my first game was just running through the race and on to the field with the rest of the players," Ditterich said.

"It was at the old St Kilda (Junction) Oval, a magnificent ground and the place was packed. And just the roar of the crowd.

"I started off in the ruck. It's all about confidence. If you can get a couple of early tap-outs and a kick here and there, your confidence grows."

Ditterich was best afield and the legend was born.

"I was absolutely buggered after the game. The nervous tension drained all of the energy out of me and I was that tired that, about an hour after the game, I had to go and have a lie down on the carpet in (club secretary) Ian Drake's office."

I remember Ditterich's first game - just killed us. But in my mind's eye it's at the G. Am I losing my marbles?

Checked the stats, 20th April Juction Oval St Kilda home game. MCG vacant that weekend.

Have found some marbles under my chair, I think they might be mine though.

No it was at the Junction Oval. I was on the wing when he hit his first Demon. Graham Wise was our ruckman who was a bit shorter than Carl.

That same day Baldock in the mud did something I have never seen repeated. It was just in front of me. He ran to the boundary with two Demons behind him chasing the ball. He reached the ball near the boundary and slapped the ball into the ground, it bounced up to him, he then turned and baulked both Dees and ran into CHF where he bombed it into the goal square, where a saint marked it.

It was breathtaking. Baldock was about 180cms and played CHF. A genius on the footy field.

The Doc was one of the best I have seen. His wet weather play was un-paralleled. Played tall short whatever, yes a football genius.

TT don't forget one plays and the other is a near permanent member of the casualty ward.

Spencer has come back from his ACL very well, & more determined IMO.

he looks a lot stronger & is playing the game like a man now, an AFL man. just starting his career. I see a parallel with what Jamar did in arriving at the AFL level. but Jake is younger I believe, than when the Russian arrived.

I have high hopes of the Snakes footy.

Can't knock his effort and attack come match day...

If only he could kick.

No it was at the Junction Oval. I was on the wing when he hit his first Demon. Graham Wise was our ruckman who was a bit shorter than Carl.

That same day Baldock in the mud did something I have never seen repeated. It was just in front of me. He ran to the boundary with two Demons behind him chasing the ball. He reached the ball near the boundary and slapped the ball into the ground, it bounced up to him, he then turned and baulked both Dees and ran into CHF where he bombed it into the goal square, where a saint marked it.

It was breathtaking. Baldock was about 180cms and played CHF. A genius on the footy field.

"It is 50 years since he burst on to the scene as a 17-year-old from East Brighton, making a breathtaking debut against Melbourne in the opening round of 1963. Amazingly, Ditterich had been to only one VFL game in his life - to watch his beloved Geelong play St Kilda at the same ground the previous year.

"The thing I remember most about my first game was just running through the race and on to the field with the rest of the players," Ditterich said.

"It was at the old St Kilda (Junction) Oval, a magnificent ground and the place was packed. And just the roar of the crowd.

"I started off in the ruck. It's all about confidence. If you can get a couple of early tap-outs and a kick here and there, your confidence grows."

Ditterich was best afield and the legend was born.

"I was absolutely buggered after the game. The nervous tension drained all of the energy out of me and I was that tired that, about an hour after the game, I had to go and have a lie down on the carpet in (club secretary) Ian Drake's office."

Agreed. Big Carl's debut game was sensational - he was actually 3" taller than Wise who was 6'2" and a lion hearted ruckman who couldn't counter the enthusiasm and bounce of Ditterich.

I played for his junior club East Brighton (he was a few years older than me) and was a revelation lifting the Saints from mediocrity to a top four club in the blink of an eye (helped by a couple of handy players from Tassie in Darrel Baldock who joined the Saints in 1962 and Ian Stewart who also debuted in round 1 of 1963).

Let's not get too carried away. Spencer had less hitouts than Warnock, which in my opinion is a vital stat that we need to win, especially given the hard-working nature of our midfield (ie we need to get our hands on the ball first at stoppages more).

Spencer also had a considerable amount less disposals than Warnock.

That said, it was Spencer's work ethic, especially in regards to presenting and tackling that made him stand out more than Warnock. But, given how low I rate Warnock, I would expect this would stand out for most rucks in the league when playing Carlton.

Playing the hypothetical game, if all our rucks were 100% fit, there is no doubt that Jamar would be in the team, and Spencer likely to be playing at Casey. Generally, Jamar wins a lot of hitouts, and while they haven't always been to advantage, the fact that we have more depth in the middle will only benefit someone like Jamar.

I'm not potting Spencer, I actually had him in my top 3 of players to watch for 2014. I'm just not getting carried away with a game that saw him just win his position. To be honest, I think the game would've been more enjoyable if both teams reached an agreement to not play any dedicated rucks. They were both ordinary at best, with our bloke winning a pretty ordinary contest.

You can pot Spencer, but please don't try to say Warnock was better.

Warnock was not as good as Spencer. Warnock is crap.

He had 15 disposals to Spencer's 10, but Spencer laid 5 tackles to Warnock's 0. Warnock also had 35 hit outs to Spencer's 30.

Spencer wins.

You can pot Spencer, but please don't try to say Warnock was better.

Warnock was not as good as Spencer. Warnock is crap.

He had 15 disposals to Spencer's 10, but Spencer laid 5 tackles to Warnock's 0. Warnock also had 35 hit outs to Spencer's 30.

Spencer wins.

Oh dear, Titan. I sincerely hope you were drunk when you posted this - would explain a lot.

I respect your right to respond to my posts, but in future, how about you get your facts right before you go misquoting me hey pal?

Do yourself a favour, re-read my post, then re-read your own ramblings. Let me know where I have said things that required your corrections.

Big Jake is a good filler until we get a decent ruckman in. He is certainly not top 12 in the league for rucks. Skills and decision making are very very poor.

Peter Wright is likely as our 1st draft choice.

You can pot Spencer, but please don't try to say Warnock was better.

Warnock was not as good as Spencer. Warnock is crap.

He had 15 disposals to Spencer's 10, but Spencer laid 5 tackles to Warnock's 0. Warnock also had 35 hit outs to Spencer's 30.

Spencer wins.

Both better than Nic Nat but he is a million dollar man! 6 disposals 6 hitouts 66% eff disp. 1 mark 0 tackles.

I remember Ditterich's first game - just killed us. But in my mind's eye it's at the G. Am I losing my marbles?

No, probably to both questions. It was at the junction oval and unfortunately his was magnificent - the first of the athletic ruckman.

I think Spencer was pretty good against the Blues and demonstrated a pleasing nasty streak.

While Spencer is coming on well, one simple statistic shows up a serious team problem.

After Round 4, total hitouts for Melbourne players:

Spencer 116

Fitzpatrick 9

Pedersen 7

Cross 7

Dunn 5

Tyson 2

Frawley 1

Vince 1

Howe 1

Spencer needs some help.

While Spencer is coming on well, one simple statistic shows up a serious team problem.

After Round 4, total hitouts for Melbourne players:

Spencer 116

Fitzpatrick 9

Pedersen 7

Cross 7

Dunn 5

Tyson 2

Frawley 1

Vince 1

Howe 1

Spencer needs some help.

Our YTD total is 149 hit outs to 200 - a difference of -51. Given that we were +17 against St Kilda, in the last 3 weeks we are -68.

That's our biggest problem at this stage. Hence why Jamar has to come straight in at the first sign of 100% fitness.

Big Jake is a good filler until we get a decent ruckman in. He is certainly not top 12 in the league for rucks. Skills and decision making are very very poor.

Peter Wright is likely as our 1st draft choice.

We won't have pick one as we won't finish on the bottom this season. We either need to trade for a middle tier, developing ruckman or recruit a prospective mature age ruckman from one of the lower leagues to shore up our stocks and let King and Gawn continue their development.

Let's not get too carried away. Spencer had less hitouts than Warnock, which in my opinion is a vital stat that we need to win, especially given the hard-working nature of our midfield (ie we need to get our hands on the ball first at stoppages more).

Spencer also had a considerable amount less disposals than Warnock.

That said, it was Spencer's work ethic, especially in regards to presenting and tackling that made him stand out more than Warnock. But, given how low I rate Warnock, I would expect this would stand out for most rucks in the league when playing Carlton.

Playing the hypothetical game, if all our rucks were 100% fit, there is no doubt that Jamar would be in the team, and Spencer likely to be playing at Casey. Generally, Jamar wins a lot of hitouts, and while they haven't always been to advantage, the fact that we have more depth in the middle will only benefit someone like Jamar.

I'm not potting Spencer, I actually had him in my top 3 of players to watch for 2014. I'm just not getting carried away with a game that saw him just win his position. To be honest, I think the game would've been more enjoyable if both teams reached an agreement to not play any dedicated rucks. They were both ordinary at best, with our bloke winning a pretty ordinary contest.

So, we saw Spencer lose the following statistics against his direct opponent;

* Kicks

* Handballs

* Marks

* Tackles

* Hit outs

* Inside 50's

* Goal assists

And as a team we lost the clearances.

NB. I will acknowledge the fact that as a team we won the hit outs total

When TF is Jamar back, pleeeeeeeease?

Went to the game to watch my cousin Tom Nicholls play. Went into the game thinking even though Tommy is talented he is still pretty lean and I expected a bigger bodied Spencer to dominate. I walked away from the game proud of Tommy but absolutely disgusted the performance Spencer put up.

I don't care about last weeks performance this bloke is seriously not a AFL player. Can't mark, Can't Kick, can't do sweet FA..

The sooner he is out of the team the better we are. As I said in another thread, Pedersen was more valuable in the ruck then Spencer was all day.

Watched Spencer closely in a few stoppages and he is far too concerned with what his opponent is doing.

He needs to try and think of himself as someone others need to be concerned with - not the other way around.

Jamar/Gawn/Spencer - our rucks are very limited for various reasons.

When looking at the height of players it is important to note how they use it. Sandilands great strength is he is tall - but he does jump a little making him taller and he has great arm extension and palms the ball at its apex. Gawn ( and I do note he is still learning the craft) is only 3 cm shorter than Sandilands but as yet is to use his height to advantage like Sandiland does.

It's funny that we all see the same game and have so varied opinions of what we see.

I only watched the last Q but I thought Spence's hitouts and the centre clearances were the reason we came back into the game

just saying....