Keeping an injured player on the best player on the ground and failing to man up the loose man is where I think we were outcoached.

Who were you going to replace him with? And you said yourself that Frawley on him made no difference. And the loose man: No. Our forwards didn't make him cover them. They just weren't good enough for him to respect them enough to worry about them. He backed his man to take care of them and then floated around looking for easy kicks. Do you think they do that when Buddy is on song? Do you think the'd have done that with a fit and firing Clark a FF?

Dissapointing that Trenners faded out of the game just as it was on the line

Keeping an injured player on the best player on the ground and failing to man up the loose man is where I think we were outcoached.

Re McDonald, it's always easy to be wise after the event. Do you think Roos doesn't know to move an injured player playing on their game-winner? More likely it wasn't clear how bad McDonald's injury was initially.

Just saw Jack Grimes on the Channel 7 Game day. Happy, professional, articulate.

I bet he interviewed really well for the job as captain.

The bloke has no go in him.

I agree with the sentiment but in reality he will get rag-dolled and not sure he has the nous to play forward?

He was recruited as a forward. He is not overweight and totally devoid of football ability like the bloke he would replace. He would not miss a goal from 5 metres after being given a handball by a team mate with no one between him and the goal.

I would settle for a couple of rag dollings.

I think we have to settle on the fact that some blokes aren't good enough and simply not play them, no matter the result, which IMO would be better anyway.

Re McDonald, it's always easy to be wise after the event. Do you think Roos doesn't know to move an injured player playing on their game-winner? More likely it wasn't clear how bad McDonald's injury was initially.

He got the corkies in the first quarter, and kept him quiet in the second. Hindsight wisdom by many on here.

Just saw Jack Grimes on the Channel 7 Game day. Happy, professional, articulate.

I bet he interviewed really well for the job as captain.

The bloke has no go in him.

Worst post I've read since last night

Who were you going to replace him with? And you said yourself that Frawley on him made no difference. And the loose man: No. Our forwards didn't make him cover them. They just weren't good enough for him to respect them enough to worry about them. He backed his man to take care of them and then floated around looking for easy kicks. Do you think they do that when Buddy is on song? Do you think the'd have done that with a fit and firing Clark a FF?

Yeah Frawley was poor on Riewoldt so we probably had no other option there but still an injured player who can't keep up with Riewoldt is a recipe for disaster. Probably would have been better off persisting with Frawley there.

The loose man we'll have to agree to disagree, it was obvious from where I was sitting it was killing us going forward and then on the rebound when they ran it off half back kicking into an open forward line. You're right our forward line was pathetic but that doesn't mean you leave the guy alone and hope it comes good or blame them for the loss. If the forward line is poor and the loose man is killing us you have to do something to address that not just let it go and so "Well if we had Clark there the loose man wouldn't be hurting us."

Really? Please guide me to the highlights of his games. He is the epitome of the emporers new clothes.

And if you want to be fair dinkum, tell me who is a worse captain in the AFL.

I fully support Nathan Jones blasting the bejeezus out of him.

Re McDonald, it's always easy to be wise after the event. Do you think Roos doesn't know to move an injured player playing on their game-winner? More likely it wasn't clear how bad McDonald's injury was initially.

It was clear he couldn't run with him and Riewoldt's strength is his hard running up and down the lines. You can argue we didn't really have other options but to argue we couldn't tell how bad the injury was is rubbish I think.

Totally on the money. Our possession game style is leagues ahead of last year, when we just couldn't get our hands on it. They will get better at it, it's just the simple reality of repetition. The turnovers will lessen, the confidence will grow, and when we have a forward or two to kick to, we'll see the picture start to come into focus.

Thinking that leaving McDonald on Riewoldt was a mistake is classic hindsight wisdom. He had done the job on him in the first half ( got the corkies in the FIRST quarter, so it was logical to stay with him. Riewoldt killed the game in 5 minutes in the third.

There were lots of personnel positives from last night also.....Watts, Toumpas, Tyson......

Having said all that, and that we WILL be much more competitive than last year, I'm not sure where we're gonna get a win from!

Gawn and Blease tore it up at Casey yesterday, so they're automatic ins it seems.

It's not hindsight I said it at the time. As soon as I saw McDonald hobble out to Riewoldt I thought this wont end well. Play Frawley on him, move McDonald on to Rhys Stanley was my thought straight away. It would've been fine if he could run out the cork but it was getting noticeably worse by the minute the longer the game went. Fair enough they got through to half time but he was even worse when the third quarter started. 5 minutes after half time he should've been on a lesser opponent or playing forward.

As soon as Frawley went to Riewoldt it resulted in Riewoldt playing higher and higher up the ground. Frawley some what disappointingly let him go and get his marks but he wasn't hurting us nearly as bad as he did in that 5 minute burst.

By the way it's funny how we over used the ball across half back and around stoppages but when streaming out in space we often didn't give the simple handball to the guy with the most space and time to hit up the forward. Nathan Jones is a prime candidate for trying to do too much and not using his team mates effectively. I hate to bag him after he played a top game for effort but he's far from perfect.

Watts decision making/disposal is brilliant but it took until the last qtr to run through a pack of players take possession of the ball, keep running and then dispose of it. I understand at times he needs to wait on the outside but there are occasions when he can win his own ball and tear it up. He has so much talent, it's coming I can see it. He's going to snap and become a force. Next week would be nice.

Worst post I've read since last night

going by your little photo there Im sure you think he is a cracking chap and its spiffing to have such a gentleman be the football clubs captain.

He got the corkies in the first quarter, and kept him quiet in the second. Hindsight wisdom by many on here.

Frawley was on him for most of the second and he did not keep him quiet. He was playing further up the ground so didn't hurt us on the scoreboard but was still killing us.

It is typical for a predominantly outside 2nd year player to take time to get the right inside/outside balance but I don't think this needs to be learnt at Casey. He played high half forward/wing and is there for the transition on the outside and not to win the inside ball. 30% of his ball last night was contested which is about the right split for a player in his role. He in most cases beat his man when it was one on one or evened the contest. He is one of the few who actually runs to the right spaces and can use the ball so I don't see how putting him to Casey achieves much at all as long he goes when its his turn.

See, there's my problem. My fundamental belief is you can play or you can't...not inside and out and in the way the game is heading with less interchanges you need to be able to win the one on one's. Yes Jimmy can make good position but until he can win the one on one's he will be a liability.

Yeah Frawley was poor on Riewoldt so we probably had no other option there but still an injured player who can't keep up with Riewoldt is a recipe for disaster. Probably would have been better off persisting with Frawley there.

The loose man we'll have to agree to disagree, it was obvious from where I was sitting it was killing us going forward and then on the rebound when they ran it off half back kicking into an open forward line. You're right our forward line was pathetic but that doesn't mean you leave the guy alone and hope it comes good or blame them for the loss. If the forward line is poor and the loose man is killing us you have to do something to address that not just let it go and so "Well if we had Clark there the loose man wouldn't be hurting us."

What could we have done about the loose man though. If we play 7 forward they play 8 defenders. I think at times our biggest mistake was not putting our own loose man in front of Riewoldt and then getting some quick run from half back ourselves. The extra man around the contest was often wasted. From stoppages I would have prefered to free up Dunn or Terlich and see if we could get some attack from half back if we lost the clearance.

Plenty to work on structurally but mainly I think we lost due to personnel. No forward line pre game and 2 in game injuries. When we had fit guys on the field ie. the first quarter we controlled a lot of the game and just needed a half decent key forward.

going by your little photo there Im sure you think he is a cracking chap and its spiffing to have such a gentleman be the football clubs captain.

And a predictable response

I appreciate the positivity but we lost to the worst team (bar us) in the league without their 3 starting mids. I don't know where you think our wins will come from.

as i said earlier.

we handballed away from pack situations the best ive seen in 6 years.

PR will sort out our bald headed mid who doesnt use first option and tries to take on the impossible at times in traffic.

we were down 3 talls with injury.

we missed too many easy shots.

the turnover kings were much better than last year.

and i will take beating for this but everybody has over stated the value of trenners and grimes.they are gravediggers and when the list gets a couple of talls back,we will see the improvement.

definately looked at the positives and not the negatives last night,and i thought he used trenners and grimes in their about spots.

What could we have done about the loose man though. If we play 7 forward they play 8 defenders. I think at times our biggest mistake was not putting our own loose man in front of Riewoldt and then getting some quick run from half back ourselves. The extra man around the contest was often wasted. From stoppages I would have prefered to free up Dunn or Terlich and see if we could get some attack from half back if we lost the clearance.

Plenty to work on structurally but mainly I think we lost due to personnel. No forward line pre game and 2 in game injuries. When we had fit guys on the field ie. the first quarter we controlled a lot of the game and just needed a half decent key forward.

Yeah fair point - I think the fact is we had to do something but we just kept persisting with what wasn't working.

What could we have done about the loose man though. If we play 7 forward they play 8 defenders. I think at times our biggest mistake was not putting our own loose man in front of Riewoldt and then getting some quick run from half back ourselves. The extra man around the contest was often wasted. From stoppages I would have prefered to free up Dunn or Terlich and see if we could get some attack from half back if we lost the clearance.

Plenty to work on structurally but mainly I think we lost due to personnel. No forward line pre game and 2 in game injuries. When we had fit guys on the field ie. the first quarter we controlled a lot of the game and just needed a half decent key forward.

Nah, that's a cop out. We were missing Clark - who may never play again and hasn't played for a long time, Dawes - who hasn't played many games and Hogan - never played. Other key misses were Viney and Garland. We lost Fitzy.

They were missing Hayes, Montagna, Jack Steven, Schneider.... Dal and Milne out since last yr, plus one down on their list because of Saad. Please, we were no worse off than them.

See, there's my problem. My fundamental belief is you can play or you can't...not inside and out and in the way the game is heading with less interchanges you need to be able to win the one on one's. Yes Jimmy can make good position but until he can win the one on one's he will be a liability.

But last night he was only a liability in aerial one on ones and if we persist with delivering the ball long and high to Toumpas we are in a world of trouble. His job was to be the half forward streaming to space. He did that well especially early when we moved the ball well. He attacked some balls on the ground with decent conviction and got the handball off.

Toumpas version of one on one contests is using his brain and legs to get off his opponent. I thought he along with Bail were the only forwards who made positive contributions towards winning the game.

Geez, You have to admire the perspicacity and fairness of the Afl in not giving us a priority pick after our triumphs of last year, don't you?

And pleeeze, don't anybody say we would have mucked it up. You don't know that.

Agree, but you mean triumphs of the last 7 years. Even a second round pick could have given us Dunstan, or allowed us to trade for a couple of senior players, who would then have been able to get injured over summer and be out for half a season.

Lazy! Lazy! Lazy! There were too many passengers in the Melbourne team last night. Some if the players simply looked unfit and there are some players who just don't understand what the word 'aggression' means. It is time to shape up or ship out for some of our list. I don't care if players like Frawley go because a young player with some passion and belief would offer us more. Pedersen was woeful for most of the game. Daniel Cross was too quiet and needs to get into the game.Bernie Vince should be extracting the ball in the centre to help Jones rather than being thrown forward. Watts and Matt Jones were two of the best. Jack Viney's example was a big loss tonight and we will be better for him in the team. Gawn has to play forward and dare I say it but we need Jamar back. We will probably be murdered by West Coast next week, especially if our coaches allow injured players like McDonald remain on the ground during matches. If you clapped the team up the tunnel at the end last night then go and find another club to support because your affirmation of that performance is part of the reason our culture of failure persists.

We didn't take the game on, we were timid and hesitant, this led to sow ball movement and helped the Saints get players back. Many times last night I saw the problems of last year where the player after marking the ball, would stand there looking for someone to kick the ball to, instead of playing on and getting the ball in to our forward line.

Sometimes it looked as if there was a time out and the game had stopped.

Saw the first few minutes on TV - looked exciting.

Next I saw was the final score :-(((

Still, NO forward line THEN injuries to the one who can and has stopped Reiwoldt regularly AND to our remaining stand in tall KPP forward....what can one expect??

The Norm Smith curse continues.

Can Roos (or maybe Mrs Roos) become an exorcist? I reckon until that happens we will continue to be teased, then kicked in the balls.

Keeping an injured player on the best player on the ground and failing to man up the loose man is where I think we were outcoached.

Agree.