POST MATCH DISCUSSION

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Don't recall watching a Melbourne team that was harder contest after contest inside. Tackling was good also. Paradox was that I can't recall one smother. Mitchie had an easy chance to smother and didn't bother. Other than the smothering, 9/10 for the hard stuff.

Rohan Bail dissapointed me.

Spencer gave his all.

Frawley confirms my long-held thought that the guy runs like a chook with his head cut-off. No awareness at all. Runs to handball-receive right into trouble.

Georgiou was bloody good.

Good to see Watts taking them on a bit more. Instinctively hasn't got the repeat contest in him yet. But he doesn't waste a kick.

Tyson looks in control and smooth; but his short passing aint A+ grade

Our mids are slow, so when we hesitate with ball in hand, we will get tackled.

We will pay for the Neeld selections of Pedo, Byrnes, Gillies etc.. for years and years and years. We seem to forget that hole that has been dug.

The obvious is that we need forward targets. But we need a dash of speed (Blease must play) and some strong overhead (In an ideal world, Clark would play ruck) around the ground.

Nice summary TGR. I think Frawley needs to look longer as first option instead of instinctively short. Not sure we can dismiss him as just being a chook at this stage as we don't exactly have many alternatives.

Spencer does give his all and love his desperation around congestion and body work in the ruck but his options/disposal at times are ordinary and i've yet to see him take any pack or overhead marks around the ground. We are desperate for some strong overhead marks that can take a telling grab in congestion once in a while and act as QB across HB and up forward at times. Howe is a given here of course but outside of him i mean.

Clark and Hogan would have provided some of this obviously but we need Maxy in ASAP to provide this tall marking ability and also take another tall opponent and stretch em a little more across the ground.

JHK must also be blooded up forward this year IMO. Jetta is ok in traffick but i wouldn't be banking on much of a return from JHK higher up the field as he was played last night when he came on.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,115]

Really? Please guide me to the highlights of his games. He is the epitome of the emporers new clothes.

And if you want to be fair dinkum, tell me who is a worse captain in the AFL.

I fully support Nathan Jones blasting the bejeezus out of him.

I am not saying he played a good game. I am saying that your captain blasting his team mates, particularly his co captain for skill errors when he is prone to them as well serves no purpose.

[All the Jacks 99]

I seen some positives, Watts is class in the middle, Tyson will be a gun. Toumpas will improve every game, the big forwards will love his delivery.when they return, not a

N Jones fan but was impressed with the way he played.

Clash jumper ..post match discussion

Against StKilda. Why add white to our jumper making us red, navy and white against red, black and white?

Toumpas kicked a ball straight to a saint...

Demons 'much better' than they believe: Roos

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Last night was a blow, psychologically, for the supporters, we needed to get away to a good start and a game against a pretty poor Saints side was the perfect opportunity and we blew it.

Hopefully over the next few weeks the coaching panel will realise that it's better to play kids with a future than older players that will do nothing for the club. Cross is not one of those players, he is a role model for the players, but soft unaccountable players shouldn't be tolerated.

[Moonshadow 17,675]

It says a lot about where we've come from when we see positives in a 3 gaol loss to a team on the slide with most of their better players off the park. Any other team would be embarrassed by what we served up last night, regardless of excuses. Lucky we weren't playing a top 4 side, would've smashed Roos' greatest losing coaching margin with the team that previously inflicted that record. He's in for a world of pain.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Moonshadow

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

We didn't take the game on, we were timid and hesitant, this led to sow ball movement and helped the Saints get players back. Many times last night I saw the problems of last year where the player after marking the ball, would stand there looking for someone to kick the ball to, instead of playing on and getting the ball in to our forward line.

Sometimes it looked as if there was a time out and the game had stopped.

There were a few taking the game on Robbie. Matt Jones and Grimes (disposal) were definitely having a crack and Watts was pretty classy all night and taking opponents on.

But i do agree with your point about being hesitant. And yes thats a part of the "possession" style that Roos is trying to teach em. The trouble is when you do it "most" of the time it's just too predictable. The opposition have too much time to find a man a kick or so behind play but also players about 2 kicks behind can also push up a little and create a wall which if you kick to it under pressure will usually see the ball being rebounded quickly over your head with a fast break.

We just don't have enough "dangerous/attacking" players** who are willing to take their opponents on and run (most importantly bounce) their way through a line and link up with a next player by forcing an opponent to come at them. This obviously creates the overlap (fast break linking up out the back) style. This is something the Cats are experts at and which has made them such a great team over the years.

The possession/tempo side is important and we've so far seen a big improvement here vs recent times, but unless we learn to run hard and break lines with overlap style footy as well, then we're simply treading water and IMO we'll win very few games playing this style "most of the time". It's a balance of both IMO that will finally see us winning games on a regular basis, even against quality opposition once we can put a forward line on the park.

** Blease is a must if we are to counter this imbalance as are any other run and carry style players with a little bit of finish and decent ball use (yes i realise we don't have those type of players growing on trees lol... Jetta, Clisby maybe??)

Edited March 23, 2014 by Rusty Nails

[Axis of Bob 11,685]

We were, overall, the better team. But when you don't turn that into scoreboard pressure then you give the opposition the chance to have a brief hot streak that wins them the game. That's what happened to us. St Kilda kicked 4 goals in about 7 minutes during the third quarter (with Riewlodt playing on a one legged McDonald). That was the game right there. For the rest of it St Kilda managed to resist our forward thrusts and hold on, while trying to catch us out on the rebound.

In the end it was enough for them.

In the end I think I'm just annoyed that I'll have to constantly hear about how awful we are, when we are actually twice the team we were last year.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,593]

Players getting caught with call, team seemed to be treading water from half time and accepting the loss, Trenners missing in action, Watts was great, Vince as well

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,593]

I have an unnecessarily bad hangover as a direct result of this game!

[djr 1,433]

Boy, everyone here gets so head up about our turnovers. It wasn't the reason we lost. We had 45 turnovers last night which is about average in the competition. The Swans had an incredible 66 against GWS while the Hawks still had around 40.

AFL football is now high risk, high reward. The Frawley / Grimes play is a good example. Grimes instinctively hand passed to Frawley, who was running flat out thru the centre, but just missed his target by millimeters. The reward would have been a probable goal. The risk was the turnover which I think resulted in a goal to them. The turnovers by foot are often as a result of players being fatigued. Yes, its extremely frustrating on the night watching it but the players are conditioned to take these these risks. Like all clubs we just need to improve this facet of game. Even a small % improvement will make a big difference.

We lost as mentioned, because we had no forward target, missed easy shots and they dropped an extra man back.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

We were, overall, the better team. But when you don't turn that into scoreboard pressure then you give the opposition the chance to have a brief hot streak that wins them the game. That's what happened to us. St Kilda kicked 4 goals in about 7 minutes during the third quarter (with Riewlodt playing on a one legged McDonald). That was the game right there. For the rest of it St Kilda managed to resist our forward thrusts and hold on, while trying to catch us out on the rebound.

In the end it was enough for them.

In the end I think I'm just annoyed that I'll have to constantly hear about how awful we are, when we are actually twice the team we were last year.

Trouble is we need to be more that twice the team we were last year; twice means we will still finish last, we need to be much better than last year and with a full side we probably will be.

Now it's a matter of seeing whether we can actually field a full side.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Just saw Jack Grimes on the Channel 7 Game day. Happy, professional, articulate.

I bet he interviewed really well for the job as captain.

The bloke has no go in him.

im finding Grimesy to be something of an awkward enigma currently. Does everything right essentially until game day then doesn’t quite get the effect hes deserving to create. In his early days I liked his decision making and in the main still do but for all his efforts hes amazingly ineffectual. Im not sure what you actually do with Grimes.

Another poster commented hed run through a wall...id temper that and say he would certainly try but lament the wall would stay standing. As another commented also he needs more meat.. Then the wall might give..might.

We have too many players who simply get manhandled adversely.

[Older demon 2,741]

I too had a bad feeling post game. It was due to expectation and that isn't something I have had for a while. I expected to win and was frustrated that we damn well could have. Unlike last year when statistically we got blown away we actually registered possessions, won contested ball and had more 50 metre entries than the opposition. The stat I didn't like was the 70 turnovers and the poor kicking for goal. Another stat was the new midfield with Michie and Tyson have a combined total of 16 games, Michie playing his 2nd game.

Key forwards win you matches and Riewoldt was the difference simple as that. In a little while the list cloggers will move on and we all know who they are. I was also surprised how much taller the Saints were than us and that showed.

I may be more comfortable next week as I have no expectation at all of the result against the Eagles

[DemonOX 8,783]

Ha ha great post. Which tall forwards were they? Pederson?

The sad reality of it all is that Pedo won't be dropped cause we ain't got no one else.

God help us next week against the weagles.

[Guest]

I seen some positives, Watts is class in the middle, Tyson will be a gun. Toumpas will improve every game, the big forwards will love his delivery.when they return, not a

N Jones fan but was impressed with the way he played.

Clash jumper ..post match discussion

Against StKilda. Why add white to our jumper making us red, navy and white against red, black and white?

Toumpas kicked a ball straight to a saint...

Demons 'much better' than they believe: Roos

Hope that was a typo and you meant Matt Jones...

[dee-luded 2,959]

Meh. Rodan and Gillies are gone. Byrnes will go after this year. Pedersen the next. None cost significant draft picks and there wasn't a whole lot of eligible quality free agents around.

We are and will continue to pay for the Prendergast drafting from 2008 until 2011, add in Morton and Maric under Cameron in 2007. And that complete failure of Bailey to provide sustainable development (hampered by resources) and Neeld to provide any kind of development at all to the majority of the list. When you're down you got to get talent in and develop them. We didn't. So we are still down. Hopefully Roos can make something out of Watts, Tyson, Fitzy, Spencer, Gawn, Trengove, Terlich, Matt Jones, McDonald, Howe, Blease, Strauss, Michie - those mid level guys who are around the mark but need to be consistent performers.

Salvage something from that lot and start some proper development and Hogan, Toumpas, Viney, JKH, Kent, Salem will be the cream.

Our troubles Re recruiting & development, list management & footy dept issues have been going on for at least since the later 90's.

the critical part is that when we wanted to change things around after 2007, we the Mfc, made the wrong personnel choices, & the footy dept was left wanting yet again.... so our boards & administrators have all failed us since at least the late 90's, & probably before that.

Following from that poor leadership of the Club, the personnel employed have not been the right ones to build a strong footy club.

Our development, recruiting, culture on/off field, has been woeful for 10+ Yrs.

this will take time to sort out & regrow the belief, respect form the AFL competition, & to reignite the fierce hunger within the players themselves. Only when we put a strong physical structural team in-place, will the players be able to feel a DEEP inner faith in our potential to win games.

last night after Fitzy went off, the patched up forward structure collapsed, which inturn exposed our 2nd/3rd forwards to unrealistic pressure the mids then questioned their own decisions & 2nd guessed themselves, which hampered delivery.

then the mids dropped confidence & chased tail.

TMac getting hurt was the final nail.

[InVINCEable 358]

Roos really needs to pull their head in, i know that sounds harsh, but if it was Neeld who lost to St Kilda everyone would be calling for his sacking, he's being paid a lot of money, should be able to beat St Kildas vfl side, i know all the outs don't help but still, i know lots of people will go off at me for this, but it made me so furious when they lost an easy match like that

[Tony Tea 2,806]

Ditto the lack of a forward line.

We also lacked pace when a break was on. The Saints were able to close us down too easily. We were also unable to open space between our forwards and their defenders.

AND!!!!! For crying out loud, when are we ever going to be able to hit a leading target without sitting the ball on or over his head?!?!? We've been doing it for years.

[Johnny Karate 559]

I'm spewing. Our best chance of a round 1 win in 9 years and our best chance of a win at Docklands in 7 and we blew it. Byrnes, Pedersen, Spencer and Bail make me puke. We may as well forfeit if we have to play those spuds in the same side again. Fitzpatrick tries really hard and was unlucky to be knocked out but is probably the same class level as those duds.

Was happy with the games of Dunn, Jones x2, Georgiou, Tyson and Vince.

While Jack Watts and Jimmy Toumpas put in improved performances, did anybody else notice their complete absence when the intensity rose in quarters 3 and 4?

Frawley had a stinker. Cross and Michie were underwhelming. Looking forward to Garland, Viney, Hogan, Dawes and Anybodybutspencer returning to senior action.

[InVINCEable 358]

We really needed Blease, Blease over frickin byrnes anyday of the week

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,593]

I thought Vince and Watts were quite good. Mr Bean is very composed for a new player. But when st kilda turned it over they were just so quick on the rebound.

Must admit I thought Trenners and Grimes just didnt have an impact and Cross was MIA which surprised me.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,593]

Next week Id say bring in Blease (who has been training well so surprised he didnt get a game), give max king a go and maybe run gawn up forward

Edited March 23, 2014 by Norm Smith's Curse

[Tony Tea 2,806]

I thought Vince and Watts were quite good. Mr Bean is very composed for a new player. But when st kilda turned it over they were just so quick on the rebound.

Must admit I thought Trenners and Grimes just didnt have an impact and Cross was MIA which surprised me.

I had forgotten Cross was playing until I heard his name mentioned on the radio in the last quarter.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

im finding Grimesy to be something of an awkward enigma currently. Does everything right essentially until game day then doesn’t quite get the effect hes deserving to create. In his early days I liked his decision making and in the main still do but for all his efforts hes amazingly ineffectual. Im not sure what you actually do with Grimes.

Another poster commented hed run through a wall...id temper that and say he would certainly try but lament the wall would stay standing. As another commented also he needs more meat.. Then the wall might give..might.

We have too many players who simply get manhandled adversely.

Grimes used to be a very good contested mark when he first came to the club but you just don't see him do that anymore.

I think he is one of the players that Roos refers to when he says they are scarred, he has been through some pretty bad seasons with us and I reckon there a tremendous upside with him.

[rjay 24,885]

I thought Vince and Watts were quite good. Mr Bean is very composed for a new player. But when st kilda turned it over they were just so quick on the rebound.

Must admit I thought Trenners and Grimes just didnt have an impact and Cross was MIA which surprised me.

I had forgotten Cross was playing until I heard his name mentioned on the radio in the last quarter.

11 tackles from Cross wan't a bad effort...he still picked up a few touches but even if it wasn't a great accumulation game he did show the others that you just keep working away.