Training - Wednesday 15th January, 2014

[mjt 640]

Also not sure about the comment on "history and his attitude."

Fairly baseless comments.

Why don't you go to training and do a report, if you don't like the report keep your obnoxious comments to yourself.

[farmerwiz 60]

Nice to hear accurate things from the horses mouth. We are all impatient wanting all our players fully fit and training the house down when it's just not realistic. The Russian is 30, played plenty of games when you add the VFL ones to AFL games and his game is mainly about getting to contests rather than amazing running. I'm sure he can build match fitness as well and probably has a good base level of fitness. There's no point whinging that he's not second PB records in his running. Plus we've got Spencer and Gawn and all should at least be available for round 1.

I'll save my worrying for the key forwards if they are all still in rehab in a months time.

players are the first too say they need a full pre season (prefer a cpl in a row), even more so if they were injured the year before or have missed chunks of footy (Dawes, Jamar, Clark, Viney, Gawn, Tappy) etc. My point is we have too many missing a full pre season which is frustrating as it limits personal and team excellence

[bing181 9,193]

Has been dropped several times for the above mentioned factors -….

a) I recall him being dropped back to Casey twice not "several times" and b) you don't know why specifically he was dropped.

But I get it, carry on.

[Slartibartfast 17,187]

I spoke to Mark Jamar today. He is recovering from a hamstring injury, as are Mitch Clark and Max Gawn. Chris Dawes, we know, had knee surgery at the end of last season and is also easing into training. The Russian was at AAMI Park doing leg work as required by the club to assist in recovery from his hamstring injury. I think he used the plural so I assume at least one other (Jack Fitzpatrick?) would have been with him. There is no reason why at this stage of proceedings a conservative approach shouldn't be taken.

Thanks Jack. I'd edit the post from "Jamar" to "a player". Coming from you it's got the same cred but protects your source.

Did he mention what was wrong with Fitzy?

[farmerwiz 60]

Why don't you go to training and do a report, if you don't like the report keep your obnoxious comments to yourself.

Think he prefers to display his passion on a keyboard than display the same passion supporting the club and people who make an effort.....anyways im just not a person who sees watts through rose coloured glasses. He isnt intense enough, doesnt tackle enough, isnt hard enough, doesnt gut run or go to the contest - all things he must learn to become a decent mid......he hasnt shown a tendency to get there after 5 years so we have to be realistic that he will be a good average player who occassionally does something brilliant. To say he will be much above that wouldnt be basing it on "history". Ive been to other teams training sessions and we just have too many key players missing chunks of pre season - just my opinion that when your a mediocre side you need alot going for you but we do have Roos!

[Slartibartfast 17,187]

Think he prefers to display his passion on a keyboard than display the same passion supporting the club and people who make an effort.....anyways im just not a person who sees watts through rose coloured glasses. He isnt intense enough, doesnt tackle enough, isnt hard enough, doesnt gut run or go to the contest - all things he must learn to become a decent mid......he hasnt shown a tendency to get there after 5 years so we have to be realistic that he will be a good average player who occassionally does something brilliant. To say he will be much above that wouldnt be basing it on "history". Ive been to other teams training sessions and we just have too many key players missing chunks of pre season - just my opinion that when your a mediocre side you need alot going for you but we do have Roos!

I think your assessment is accurate but he's never played midfield and never had Roos/Stone as coach.

Let's hope that makes a difference.

[mjt 640]

Thanks Jack. I'd edit the post from "Jamar" to "a player". Coming from you it's got the same cred but protects your source.

Did he mention what was wrong with Fitzy?

I reckon it could have something to do with his diabetic problem and training in the heat, I asked the one of the staff last week and he said its precautionary so I left it at that.

[Slartibartfast 17,187]

I reckon it could have something to do with his diabetic problem and training in the heat, I asked the one of the staff last week and he said its precautionary so I left it at that.

Thanks

[mjt 640]

Think he prefers to display his passion on a keyboard than display the same passion supporting the club and people who make an effort.....anyways im just not a person who sees watts through rose coloured glasses. He isnt intense enough, doesnt tackle enough, isnt hard enough, doesnt gut run or go to the contest - all things he must learn to become a decent mid......he hasnt shown a tendency to get there after 5 years so we have to be realistic that he will be a good average player who occassionally does something brilliant. To say he will be much above that wouldnt be basing it on "history". Ive been to other teams training sessions and we just have too many key players missing chunks of pre season - just my opinion that when your a mediocre side you need alot going for you but we do have Roos!

I watched him train on Monday and thought he looked really fit and ready to go, sometimes laconic guys like Jack need someone they respect to get the best out of them, I think he will improve significantly this year but if he doesn't as you said he will be a decent average player.

[Whispering_Jack 29,764]

Thanks Jack. I'd edit the post from "Jamar" to "a player". Coming from you it's got the same cred but protects your source.

Did he mention what was wrong with Fitzy?

The player to who I spoke didn't say but I'll try to find out.

I think Fitzy had some hamstring issues last year and those things sometimes have a habit of coming back in the form of twinges and the like ... but that's only a guess. The diabetic suggestion is also plausible.

[Chook 15,012]

The player to who I spoke didn't say but I'll try to find out.

"To whom," Jack. "To whom."

[jimcor 212]

I watched him train on Monday and thought he looked really fit and ready to go, sometimes laconic guys like Jack need someone they respect to get the best out of them, I think he will improve significantly this year but if he doesn't as you said he will be a decent average player.

I think I agree with you if, by 'laconic', you mean that he seems to lack intensity - laconic means a not using a lot of words (I had to look it up in the dictionary!). I think he's just a hugely talented, normal young bloke who, as you say, can (and needs to for his and our sake) improve significantly and become a great contributor. Who knows, he might, over time, turn into an exceptional player. Up to now, I don't think he's found anyone or anything to motivate him. Let's hope Roos and his teaam are the answer.

[Moonshadow 17,675]

Why don't you go to training and do a report, if you don't like the report keep your obnoxious comments to yourself.

Don't think Machsy's comments were obnoxious. I think perhaps he had an issue with a training report which was more of a series of personal opinions about players abilities and careers rather than a training report. Correct me if I'm wrong Machsy.

However, thanks again for making the effort to get to Casey and giving your views farmerwiz.

[Whispering_Jack 29,764]

The drive to Casey Fields is always interesting. If you haven't been there for a few months, you're immediately struck by the amount of new residential building happening which is of course, one of the main reasons the Melbourne Football Club is out there in the first place. This is one of the fastest growing residential regions in the country and over time, it's hoped that the club will benefit from that growth and develop a much healthier supporter base than it has at present.

But all that is of no effect unless the club prospers and grows on the field and that's what I was looking for as I made the trip down the freeway to Cranbourne.

I wasn't expecting too much with the temperatures edging towards the low forties and the flies congregating around the small but hardy group of supporters who braved the oppressive conditions. This was compounded by the non appearance of the bulk of the club's talls who are suffering various ailments, none of which are said to be long term in nature. Missing were Mark Jamar, Max Gawn, Mitch Clark, Chris Dawes, Jack Fitzpatrick and Jesse Hogan. That left us to concentrate on a pre season training session in the heat involving many of the club's midfielders which is the area that has caused us so much distress in recent years. Even then we didn't see Bernie Vince or Aidan Riley and Jack Viney turned up but I didn't see him on the track. Even the coach is far away in Africa and we're less than a month away from the start of what used to be the NAB Cup.

However, there was enough on display to suggest that the emphasis in off season recruiting on the midfield will pay off. That is not to say that from hereon in the Demons will be elite in that division but rather, that they will be competitive and will perform like the bulk of the midfields in the competition and not resemble a bunch of fugitives from Madame Tussaud's waxworks. This is what I took from training and from what I have seen of the influx of players into the club through trades and the draft.

Dom Tyson looks all class, Viv Michie looms as a surprise packet, Daniel Cross has class and experience and we know what (the admittedly absent) Bernie Vince can do. Jack Watts is a classy mover and disposes of the ball well. Jimmy Toumpas looks as if he's going to step up in a big way and we have high hopes for Jack Viney, Sam Blease and a resurgent Jack Trengove minus the burden of the captaincy. Then there's one who impressed me this morning - Michael Evans who deserves a break from injury looks fit and solid and could be a bit of a surprise packet.

This will all add quality to our 2013 midfield of one, namely Nathan Jones. The way they trained and ran in the heat was impressive. There were a couple of little blokes who could also surprise by adding pace and skill to the set up in Dom Barry and Jay Kennedy-Harris. And if these changes made by the new coach bring result in a more solid, efficient and reliable engine room, imagine how much this is going to be appreciated by the overworked defence of the past and how the forward line (currently all in rehab apart from Jeremy Howe) will benefit in terms of greater opportunities for scoring.

Of course, all this is written in mid January, a traditional time for rose coloured glasses and things could well change dramatically over the coming months but I think we're on the up and up.

I remember sitting high up in the gods in our round three match against Richmond two years ago and, realising that our static midfield was bereft of any run and spread, knew we were in a spot of bother. Now, I know that we will no longer be wax figures in the most important part of the ground and that is where I see our improvement in the months ahead.

[Machsy 2,858]

Why don't you go to training and do a report, if you don't like the report keep your obnoxious comments to yourself.

What is this, North Korea?

Training reports, whilst highly subjective, should be accepted without question?

Why don't you refrain from posting until you have something intelligent to contribute?

I doubt anyone would miss your posts.

[Machsy 2,858]

Think he prefers to display his passion on a keyboard than display the same passion supporting the club and people who make an effort.....anyways im just not a person who sees watts through rose coloured glasses. He isnt intense enough, doesnt tackle enough, isnt hard enough, doesnt gut run or go to the contest - all things he must learn to become a decent mid......he hasnt shown a tendency to get there after 5 years so we have to be realistic that he will be a good average player who occassionally does something brilliant. To say he will be much above that wouldnt be basing it on "history". Ive been to other teams training sessions and we just have too many key players missing chunks of pre season - just my opinion that when your a mediocre side you need alot going for you but we do have Roos!

I've been to training and given reports before myself.

Don't think you're too special.

And there's no rose-coloured glasses re: Watts.

I just prefer reasonable intelligent criticism, rather than unfounded Herald-Sun style lemming criticism.

Each to their own.

[angrydee 842]

I, for one, am truly grateful to ALL our intrepid reporters, especially those who brave intense heat so that the rest of us can know what's happening with our playing group.

Everyone is human, and that invariably means having opinions and biases.

I still appreciate each and every training report.

Thanks folks.

[Jack Jack Tappy 112]

Think he prefers to display his passion on a keyboard than display the same passion supporting the club and people who make an effort.....anyways im just not a person who sees watts through rose coloured glasses. He isnt intense enough, doesnt tackle enough, isnt hard enough, doesnt gut run or go to the contest - all things he must learn to become a decent mid......he hasnt shown a tendency to get there after 5 years so we have to be realistic that he will be a good average player who occassionally does something brilliant. To say he will be much above that wouldnt be basing it on "history". Ive been to other teams training sessions and we just have too many key players missing chunks of pre season - just my opinion that when your a mediocre side you need alot going for you but we do have Roos!

You speak as tho you have knowledge of the players and can predict what will happen in the future confidently, and with bias. I see the glass a lot more half full and recognise that Watts has been through a lot more than you give credit, including 14 kms plus a game. Time will tell what happens but he chose to stay when a number of clubs were after him so let's see what happens in 2014 and I think you will eat your words.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Agree, Jack.

Whilst I'm aware of how training is completely different to a game and that many individuals can look like a million dollars on the track, I still firmly believe there'll be a massive improvement from our team this year.

I can understand why many supporters are not so confident, (mainly based on past false hope).

However the fact remains, previous coaches didn't identify that it was our midfield that was at the crux of it all. Plenty of other excuses were made. A handful being not enough experience or games which means lack of fitness, smaller bodies, frail minds, no confidence or trust in each other. Poor drafts. It's all a big snowball effect really. And when you've got a midfield where two of your most senior players in Moloney and Sylvia are not driven to be the best players they can be, it just adds to the midfield issue.

Our forward line and backline are pretty strong. So there's no worry there for the moment and providing everyone stays on the park for the majority of the year.

Look at who we've brought into the midfield this year. Not only is there quality. There is now depth. Cross, Vince, Michie, Tyson. Two experienced mids with elite work rate (unlike Sylvia or Moloney) and smart footy brains. (Also unlike Sylvia and Moloney). Tyson who I'm absolutely confident will be our best mid within 4 years. Look at his skill set. Michie who whilst has only played one game, can play. Will provide great support as he plays with intensity, works hard and has good skills. It doesn't matter as much that the latter two haven't played much AFL. They can both play and will have support unlike Trengove and Toumpas in their first years.

Add those four to a midfield of regulars being Jones, Trengove, Viney, Watts and Toumpas and you can see there is a great mixture of experience, talent and depth. All of those players are hard working, (Watts maybe still getting the hang of it), skilled and smart.

It's an immediate upgrade on Matt Jones, McKenzie, Bail, Evans, Nicho etc.

And then you've got the new draftees, Salem, Hunt and an immature Barry to learn and develop at Casey for the year, only to play once their form and desire warrants it.

What a position to be in. This is a monumental change. And without having mentioned the new coaches or the game plan, it's a huge midfield upgrade and will completely change the dynamic.

I have no doubt we may be a bit shaky perhaps early on in these practice games. But when we click, it will completely change the psyche of every player and it will turn into a positive snowball effect. All we need is that sniff. I can feel it coming.

Edited January 15, 2014 by stevethemanjordan

[farmerwiz 60]

You speak as tho you have knowledge of the players and can predict what will happen in the future confidently, and with bias. I see the glass a lot more half full and recognise that Watts has been through a lot more than you give credit, including 14 kms plus a game. Time will tell what happens but he chose to stay when a number of clubs were after him so let's see what happens in 2014 and I think you will eat your words.

Ridiculous comment that we give him credit for running 14km a game. If that was the case Tim Clarke would still be playing for Hawthorn as captain coach. Running is one thing, running with desire and hurt is another.

Watts does the former. Will be happy to eat my words but after following football for many a year, i just cant see Watts becoming a mid gun, too many defiencies that relate to winning inside ball, gut running, tackling etc.

[farmerwiz 60]

I've been to training and given reports before myself.

Don't think you're too special.

And there's no rose-coloured glasses re: Watts.

I just prefer reasonable intelligent criticism, rather than unfounded Herald-Sun style lemming criticism.

Each to their own.

So my criticism of him not running hard enough, not tackling enough, not going hard enough, not being as intense as we would like is herald sun criticism? I would think its intelligent criticism based on stats and his last 5 years and developing into a frustrating player. I wonder sometimes what you go on about

[Machsy 2,858]

We don't and won't agree.

Happy to leave it there.

[Jack Jack Tappy 112]

Ridiculous comment that we give him credit for running 14km a game. If that was the case Tim Clarke would still be playing for Hawthorn as captain coach. Running is one thing, running with desire and hurt is another.

Watts does the former. Will be happy to eat my words but after following football for many a year, i just cant see Watts becoming a mid gun, too many defiencies that relate to winning inside ball, gut running, tackling etc.

We'll wait and see, I think it will be a very big year for Jack.

[farmerwiz 60]

We don't and won't agree.

Happy to leave it there.

we wont because my opinion is based on stats and watching the last 5 years, yours is based on hope

Lets hope he has a big year nevertheless

[Bedraggled Dee 336]

Agree, Jack.

Whilst I'm aware of how training is completely different to a game and that many individuals can look like a million dollars on the track, I still firmly believe there'll be a massive improvement from our team this year.

I can understand why many supporters are not so confident, (mainly based on past false hope).

However the fact remains, previous coaches didn't identify that it was our midfield that was at the crux of it all. Plenty of other excuses were made. A handful being not enough experience or games which means lack of fitness, smaller bodies, frail minds, no confidence or trust in each other. Poor drafts. It's all a big snowball effect really. And when you've got a midfield where two of your most senior players in Moloney and Sylvia are not driven to be the best players they can be, it just adds to the midfield issue.

Our forward line and backline are pretty strong. So there's no worry there for the moment and providing everyone stays on the park for the majority of the year.

Look at who we've brought into the midfield this year. Not only is there quality. There is now depth. Cross, Vince, Michie, Tyson. Two experienced mids with elite work rate (unlike Sylvia or Moloney) and smart footy brains. (Also unlike Sylvia and Moloney). Tyson who I'm absolutely confident will be our best mid within 4 years. Look at his skill set. Michie who whilst has only played one game, can play. Will provide great support as he plays with intensity, works hard and has good skills. It doesn't matter as much that the latter two haven't played much AFL. They can both play and will have support unlike Trengove and Toumpas in their first years.

Add those four to a midfield of regulars being Jones, Trengove, Viney, Watts and Toumpas and you can see there is a great mixture of experience, talent and depth. All of those players are hard working, (Watts maybe still getting the hang of it), skilled and smart.

It's an immediate upgrade on Matt Jones, McKenzie, Bail, Evans, Nicho etc.

And then you've got the new draftees, Salem, Hunt and an immature Barry to learn and develop at Casey for the year, only to play once their form and desire warrants it.

What a position to be in. This is a monumental change. And without having mentioned the new coaches or the game plan, it's a huge midfield upgrade and will completely change the dynamic.

I have no doubt we may be a bit shaky perhaps early on in these practice games. But when we click, it will completely change the psyche of every player and it will turn into a positive snowball effect. All we need is that sniff. I can feel it coming.

I think a few on here have undersold the effort and ability of Matt Jones. He was an oustanding addition to the side last year and arguably our second best midfielder behind Jones. If his developement continues this year he will be a good mid for us and IMO has the wood on Michie, Trengove, Watts, Mackenzie Toumpas and Viney. Not saying these blokes wont be good players and all probably have bigger up sides but that is potential against proven ability and on last years form Jones is better