Training - Friday, 13th December, 2013

[DeeSpencer 26,081]

Barry is training exclusively with the midfield, so I don't think it will be a small forward opportunity, (Salem was with the forwards today), it is hard to judge about Barry's physique or changes to these days, we now have some big bodies on board, he does look 'more powerful', if that makes sense, in his work

On the training , as you know the players speak to me, and no names, one told me this year is 10 times better because the emphasis is the running in the game, not just running, it has a purpose, and another one said it was good to be treated as adults this year, so you can take that whatever way you want

Barry really looked like a kid last year, much like Jayden Hunt this year I presume. So when you contrast it's probably easy to see a difference.

I think Salem is probably more suited to start his career as a forward than Barry. Salem's junior career showed decent marking and a desire to hunt the ball and tackle. All components for a small forward. Particularly a Paul Roos small forward who's responsibilities for pressuring and locking the ball in probably outweigh the ability to get the odd goal. Barry might have the edge in pace but Blease has shown that pace alone doesn't make you a small forward. Barry is very much an out in space run and carry player and the modern game makes it very hard to find space as a small forward.

In light of Kent being injured and rehab-ing slowly a spot could open up whilst Kent gets back from injury and we'd all be happy to see Kennedy Harris or Salem in it I'm sure.

Saty I know I've had a go at you for what I see as being overprotective of players reputations on here but some of you're little insights gleamed from the players are pretty useful, particularly it's nice to know you got the thumbs up from Mitch and Dawesy. No particular surprise the players would rather get the miles in their legs from footy training than repetitive lap running, that's pretty obvious.

[dazzledavey36 55,336]

Saty I cant quote you for some reason but you said one player mentioned it was good to be treated like adults? that's a very interesting comment? can you shed any more light into what that really ment?

[Machsy 2,858]

Good report Rog, thanks again as always.

Hope to see you there next time.

Strauss doesn't stand out for being bad, nor does he stand out for being one of the best on the track.

Just solid performances. If you watch him closely, his kicking and agility are his assets, with no glaring weaknesses in his game.

Could be a bit more bold and have a bit more front about him.

I think Roos will see and utilise his value.

Georgiou has hit targets at a good enough rate when I've watched him, but the best way I can describe it is that his ball drop is awkward, like he is dropping it onto his non-preferred foot that he never uses... except he's doing it on his preferred side.

Another thing I forgot from Wednesday - can't recall who it was, maybe Miller, but someone was yelling "Remember your running patterns! RUNNING PATTERNS! Go wide! WIDE!" during a drill.

Mainly when Maia was running past to receive handballs, but in general too.

And working on timing to come past for a handball.

It struck me as being basic stuff I worked on as a teenager in local footy, but then again, quite a few of them aren't much different to the age I was. It's always the same orders from the coach though!

"Time your run... Don't go early... Stick to running patterns... Etc"

I've also seen a lot of emphasis on having 3 blokes with the ball trying to work their way through 3 defenders.

It's a good exercise and something a few of the younger guys have had some trouble with.

It's seeing things like that which have me worried about our performance in 2014, but at the same time, there have been a lot of senior players missing from the main training group.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,088]

Interesting to note the talk of running patterns. This is something I particularly noted about our performance this year in both the forward line and midfield. The addition of an experienced and highly successful midfield coach is the answer to my prayers in that respect and hopefully he can get our mids to not only win the ball but when they have it use some reasonably sophisticated patterns to move it out of congestion and set up their designated kickers.

[Gorgoroth 13,017]

I always thought Watts and Byrnes ran to good spots but our players could not hit them, or see them, or were so under the pump they just flogged it forward.

[DeeSpencer 26,081]

Saty I cant quote you for some reason but you said one player mentioned it was good to be treated like adults? that's a very interesting comment? can you shed any more light into what that really ment?

Really? After all you've heard of Neeld you need that explained?

There's been several Neeld reports of belittling and an overly stern discipline that certainly could've made the players feel like children. Roos on the other hand is about professionalism and standards. Working the guys hard but making them own it like adults

[CBDees 3,167]

Barry is training exclusively with the midfield, so I don't think it will be a small forward opportunity, ( Salem was with the forwards today), it is hard to judge about Barry's physique or changes to these days, we now have some big bodies on board, he does look 'more powerful', if that makes sense, in his work

On the training , as you know the players speak to me, and no names, one told me this year is 10 times better because the emphasis is the running in the game, not just running, it has a purpose, and another one said it was good to be treated as adults this year, so you can take that whatever way you want

LIKE!

[monoccular 17,573]

Semantics :-). I'm pretty sure we both mean the same thing.

I am sure we do...but I am a compulsive pedant!

Interesting I can't get the quote button to work, anyway Monnocular asks? about Barry, he is training exclusively with the midfield, so I don't think it will be a small forward opportunity, ( Salem was with the forwards today), it is hard to judge about Barry's physique or changes to these days, we now have some big bodies on board, he does look 'more powerful', if that makes sense, in his work

On the training , as you know the players speak to me, and no names, one told me this year is 10 times better because the emphasis is the running in the game, not just running, it has a purpose, and another one said it was good to be treated as adults this year, so you can take that whatever way you want

Thanks for that. He isn't high on my list of expectations for 2014 but still interested in his progress.

And nice to hear that the players are being treated with a bit more respect this year, and it sounds very much like a two way street there.

Mutual respect is far better than (a) last coach putting them down or (b) his predecessor [apparently] letting them get away with slacking.

[Whispering_Jack 30,658]

According to the Herald Sun, Mitch Clark tweaked "his ankle a little bit" today - Melbourne feared but Mitch Clark injury just a tweak. The story wasn't big enough to take the attention away from the farcical back room dealing at the AFL over James Hird's contract, the third test and even the commencement of the Third World War. The media has such a strange set of priorities.

[dee-tox 4,835]

Timmsy reads Demonland!

[Whispering_Jack 30,658]

A few observations from my visit this morning.

Cross is a general.

King is a big boy and when he fills out in a couple of years, could be very handy for us. He has footy smarts.

Mitch moving well and more tatts.

Vince not as defined in the upper body as I expected, but we know he can play.

Hunt is super fast.

Michie is very strongly built.

Nicho still sprays them.

Dunn got a blood nose and just wiped it away and got on with it.

Georgiou strong but not tall. Picked up a half volley beautifully and his kicking was fine. He is there to make the seniors.

Many of the players have developed physically.

Training seems to be done at more pace and with more intensity.

Roos stops them when he sees an error and corrects it and then continues.

There are far less breaks and they are moving most of the session. Clearly the fitness is improving.

Tyson looked ok to me for his first hitout.

Jordie did some drills and some running in rehab group with Blease.

Watts looks stronger.

Strauss looks stronger and was clean and hopefully this is his year.

Harmes looked ok.

Tapscott is a bull.

Jimmy looks stronger and raring to go.

Salem is not a big boy but is pretty clean with the ball and has pace.

Hogan, all I can say is stay fit and sign him for life.

Generally it looked more professional than in the past and I noticed a lot of the players encouraging each other, no one more than Nathan Jones, who kept going up to the new boys and encouraging them.

Not having a go Redleg but, as much as I enjoy reading them, I get a sense of déjà vu with many preseason training reports (in your case I've heard the same for 40 years with only the names and faces changed).

Is there something that those who have been to training can point to that will inspire me with confidence that the optimism expressed here about training is going to last for a single day beyond the first NAB Cup game?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Not having a go Redleg but, as much as I enjoy reading them, I get a sense of déjà vu with many preseason training reports (in your case I've heard the same for 40 years with only the names and faces changed).

Is there something that those who have been to training can point to that will inspire me with confidence that the optimism expressed here about training is going to last for a single day beyond the first NAB Cup game?

Obviously for a start anyone can look good at training but the issue for me is that even if Melbourne have improved, the other teams have improved that much more.

[Demon Head 292]

^ yes but I reckon we have more scope for improvement than most of the other clubs.

[Redleg 41,431]

Not having a go Redleg but, as much as I enjoy reading them, I get a sense of déjà vu with many preseason training reports (in your case I've heard the same for 40 years with only the names and faces changed).

Is there something that those who have been to training can point to that will inspire me with confidence that the optimism expressed here about training is going to last for a single day beyond the first NAB Cup game?

If you insist. Watts winked at me during a stretch, that must mean we will win the flag this year.

[Redleg 41,431]

Obviously for a start anyone can look good at training but the issue for me is that even if Melbourne have improved, the other teams have improved that much more.

That is always the case. We just have to hope, the change in coaching, playing personnel, a better run with injury and increased fitness, will narrow the gap between us and the rest.

[Redleg 41,431]

^ yes but I reckon we have more scope for improvement than most of the other clubs.

Hard to argue when you are coming off a pathetic base.

[Whispering_Jack 30,658]

If you insist. Watts winked at me during a stretch, that must mean we will win the flag this year.

Well ... either that or Jack's got a touch of conjunctivitis.

[DeeVoted 583]

Is there something that those who have been to training can point to that will inspire me with confidence that the optimism expressed here about training is going to last for a single day beyond the first NAB Cup game?

Two things to date. J.Hogan & P.Roos.

Thanks to the galah that was in charge for the last two years, we have been put back about 3 yrs. The Phar Lap up the sand dunes method all but killed them. Tommy Woodcock has stepped in to retify the situation. It's going to take a while to wipe the slate clean and install a game plan that works. Then hone it from there. The NAB Cup might be seen as a glorified practice match for the stronger clubs, but when you are lost and coming as far back as we, are its going to be a good indicator. Until those pass I'm on the fence.

Good reports from those that took the time and effort to post their views. Getting the footballs out so early as opposed to last year, means we are already in front.

[DeeVoted 583]

If you insist. Watts winked at me during a stretch, that must mean we will win the flag this year.

You mean he didnt blow you a kiss? another year of doom and gloom

[Sydney Pennski 299]

Two things to date. J.Hogan & P.Roos.

Thanks to the galah that was in charge for the last two years, we have been put back about 3 yrs. The Phar Lap up the sand dunes method all but killed them. Tommy Woodcock has stepped in to retify the situation. It's going to take a while to wipe the slate clean and install a game plan that works. Then hone it from there. The NAB Cup might be seen as a glorified practice match for the stronger clubs, but when you are lost and coming as far back as we, are its going to be a good indicator. Until those pass I'm on the fence.

Good reports from those that took the time and effort to post their views. Getting the footballs out so early as opposed to last year, means we are already in front.

The "galah" didn't put together their training programme. The bloke who did that is still doing the job and worked with Paul Roos when the Swans won the flag for him in 2005.

[Slartibartfast 17,625]

The "galah" didn't put together their training programme. The bloke who did that is still doing the job and worked with Paul Roos when the Swans won the flag for him in 2005.

Who do you reckon ticked off on the training program and if Neeld had no influence why did it differ so much to this year and Misson's previous times at both Swans and Saints.

The whole industry was laughing at our preseasons under Neeld. [censored] the players before putting a ball in their hand and then berating them for skill errors. The players were mentally spent before the season opener. Talk to them now and it's a completely different environment. It's supportive and positive with high intensity work mixed with more down time. Rather than dreading training they are loving it. Rather than hoping the ball doesn't come to them they want it.

I know Neeld still has his supporters but it's no surprise he's no longer working in footy although I think it's a bit sad. In retrospect those that made he decision to make him coach probably ended his football coaching career at the highest level.

Edit: It's hard to believe "fflloogg" is censored!

Edited December 14, 2013 by Baghdad Bob

[Sydney Pennski 299]

Who do you reckon ticked off on the training program and if Neeld had no influence why did it differ so much to this year and Misson's previous times at both Swans and Saints.

The whole industry was laughing at our preseasons under Neeld. [censored] the players before putting a ball in their hand and then berating them for skill errors. The players were mentally spent before the season opener. Talk to them now and it's a completely different environment. It's supportive and positive with high intensity work mixed with more down time. Rather than dreading training they are loving it. Rather than hoping the ball doesn't come to them they want it.

I know Neeld still has his supporters but it's no surprise he's no longer working in footy although I think it's a bit sad. In retrospect those that made he decision to make him coach probably ended his football coaching career at the highest level.

Can you point to one article from the time where Neeld's preseason training methods were criticized?

[Slartibartfast 17,625]

Can you point to one article from the time where Neeld's preseason training methods were criticized?

No, but I know of three opposition club FD that I spoke to that did. Clearly I won't name them.

[sue 9,143]

No, but I know of three opposition club FD that I spoke to that did. Clearly I won't name them.

And you posted here about their (anonymous) views at the time?

[DeeVoted 583]

The "galah" didn't put together their training programme. The bloke who did that is still doing the job and worked with Paul Roos when the Swans won the flag for him in 2005.

The buck starts and ends with the coach. you think Misson was running the show? He would have put foward where the players fitness levels were at. Then its up to the coach to endorse as BB pointed out. Neeld tried to change too much too quickly. Neil Craig had some input he also had more experience. It was Neeld who got the players offside, enforced the game plan and failed. bad luck for him, I was hoping for a better result.

If you are in a position to ask around with personal inside the club, they will tell you Neeld wasnt well liked with the methods he used. We are covering old ground here, I suggest if you disagree or have some other insight to why we went backwards at a million miles an hr, then start another thread.