Jump to content


Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

If we were to make the finals next year who would be our most crucial eight players.This means of course who are going to step up into the elite, and where are we going to get the biggest improvement from. I'll start in no particular order but with primary positions.

Frawley - attacking CHF

Tyson - midfield on the ball

Gawn - first ruck

Clark - full forward

Hogan - CHF

Jones - Centre

Watts - Wing

Viney - Rover

It is hard when you do it this way, but it does focus the mind as to who is critical and where our biggest upside is.

The 9th man? Paul Roos, which is where our biggest upside of all will be.

Edited by Dees2014

Posted

Wrong approach.. You should be looking at our bottom tier best 22 players stepping it up.. It's these players that are going to bring us into top 8 contention..

Eg..

Evans - Avg 20 Disposals and 1 goal a game.

Tapscott - Shuts down opposition forward each week.

Kent - Kicks 35 goals as forward pocket..

Michie - Avg 28 Disposals and 1 goal a game

Jamar - back to AA form

Howe - 40-50 goals

McDonald - AA CHB

Trengove - Avg 30 disposals

If things like the above happen, the 8 players you mentioned should lift their game regardless..

You're only as good as your bottom players.. need the whole team to step up..

  • Like 6

Posted

Wrong approach.. You should be looking at our bottom tier best 22 players stepping it up.. It's these players that are going to bring us into top 8 contention..

Eg..

Evans - Avg 20 Disposals and 1 goal a game.

Tapscott - Shuts down opposition forward each week.

Kent - Kicks 35 goals as forward pocket..

Michie - Avg 28 Disposals and 1 goal a game

Jamar - back to AA form

Howe - 40-50 goals

McDonald - AA CHB

Trengove - Avg 30 disposals

If things like the above happen, the 8 players you mentioned should lift their game regardless..

You're only as good as your bottom players.. need the whole team to step up..

Bottom six v top six, another of Demonland's 'great' debates.

FWIW, given how insipid our leadership and 'star' qualities have been the last decade, I'd put my eggs in the top six basket. We won't go anywhere until we get more from our top players, meaning Trengove, Grimes, Watts, Howe, Frawley all need to lift on their 2013 output.

Posted (edited)

Wrong approach.. You should be looking at our bottom tier best 22 players stepping it up.. It's these players that are going to bring us into top 8 contention..

Eg..

Evans - Avg 20 Disposals and 1 goal a game.

Tapscott - Shuts down opposition forward each week.

Kent - Kicks 35 goals as forward pocket..

Michie - Avg 28 Disposals and 1 goal a game

Jamar - back to AA form

Howe - 40-50 goals

McDonald - AA CHB

Trengove - Avg 30 disposals

If things like the above happen, the 8 players you mentioned should lift their game regardless..

You're only as good as your bottom players.. need the whole team to step up..

I understand the point you are making, but I think that applies more to established top 4 sides - makes the difference in winning or losing GFs.

I think we are different. We are constantly being told we have no elite players, and we haven't, but we'd better get some quick smart if we want to progress into the 8 and beyond.

This is my point in this thread. Who are these elite players likely to be from our current list?

Wrong approach.. You should be looking at our bottom tier best 22 players stepping it up.. It's these players that are going to bring us into top 8 contention..

Eg..

Evans - Avg 20 Disposals and 1 goal a game.

Tapscott - Shuts down opposition forward each week.

Kent - Kicks 35 goals as forward pocket..

Michie - Avg 28 Disposals and 1 goal a game

Jamar - back to AA form

Howe - 40-50 goals

McDonald - AA CHB

Trengove - Avg 30 disposals

If things like the above happen, the 8 players you mentioned should lift their game regardless..

You're only as good as your bottom players.. need the whole team to step up..

Edited by Dees2014
Posted

I think Garland is also crucial, able to play small/tall. Like a lot of players will get even better under Roos. Eight is tough to name, we need luck with injurys and Grimes and Trengove to take the next step. The club is collectively out of excuses, and it doesn't take 2-3 seasons to learn a gameplan. Being competitive is free.

Posted

Top 8 Melbourne players starting 2014

Frawley

Garland

Grimes

Clark

Howe

Jones

Vince (obviously based on his work at the Crows)

Dawes

Improvement will need to come from the young blokes who are getting up towards the 50-70 games experience. We should expect the following to step up next year:

Rohan Bail - 44 games (concussion issues allowing)

Sam Bleaze - 31 games (limited games but been in the system long enough)

Neville Jetta - 41 games

Tommy Mac - 39 games

Jordie Mackenzie - 69 games

Luke Tapscott - 45 games

Jack Trengove - 79 games

I also think Dom Tyson, Jack Viney, and Jesse Hogan can make immediate impacts

Posted

1. Clark

2. Jones

3. Garland

4. Frawley

5. McDonald

6. Michie

7. Vince

8. Tyson


Posted

Viney

Toumpas

Tyson

Michie

Trengove

Watts

Jones

Clark

The improvement has to come from our young midfielders, if we can start winning the footy and getting it inside our 50m arc we will win more games than we lose. Our forward 50m arc has the ability to kick big scores.

Posted

compare hawks and the blues

I would argue not a huge difference between their top 6.

hawks bottom 6 smash the blues bottom 6 every day of the week....

Again, I don't want to turn this into the 400th instalment of the top six v bottom six debate, but when you are down the bottom of the ladder, growth doesn't come from the bottom players. You might argue that our bottom 6 are comparable to Carlton's too. But our top 6 are nowhere near it.

IMO, clubs down the bottom of the ladder need to develop a core top group of players to help push the up the ladder. Once that growth has been achieved, and you start looking like playing finals, then your bottom six need to come into the frame. Thus, yes, Carlton at the moment needs to fix its bottom six, or it won't compete with the likes of Hawthorn. Melbourne, on the other hand, needs to develop a top six capable of matching it with the better sides. Our bottom six is irrelevant until we have a top six that is good enough.

  • Like 1

Posted

Very interesting thought. I think the reality for us is would be that we need a mix of a few stars having a good year and some of our lesser lights having an impact. The obvious one from the first category for me would be Clark. If he can play 20 games at something like his form from a couple of years ago we'd be off to a good start. If Blease were to get some consistency and hold down a spot in the side he'd be a huge benefit to us as well. Jones obviously to be midfield general. Viney to step up and play the whole season gives Jones more support and helps out the other new guys. Tyson likewise. IF Watts can rack up 20+ a game it would be huge. Add in your pick from Frawley, Garland and McDonald. We'd also need Grimes to have a big defensive impact of HB. I'm up to 10 here, which gives some idea of how much we need to go right to get into finals contention...

Posted

Top 8 Melbourne players starting 2014

Frawley

Garland

Grimes

Clark

Howe

Jones

Vince (obviously based on his work at the Crows)

Dawes

Improvement will need to come from the young blokes who are getting up towards the 50-70 games experience. We should expect the following to step up next year:

Rohan Bail - 44 games (concussion issues allowing)

Sam Bleaze - 31 games (limited games but been in the system long enough)

Neville Jetta - 41 games

Tommy Mac - 39 games

Jordie Mackenzie - 69 games

Luke Tapscott - 45 games

Jack Trengove - 79 games

I also think Dom Tyson, Jack Viney, and Jesse Hogan can make immediate impacts

I cannot envisage a successful Demon future without Hogan, Clark, Frawley, Gawn, Tyson, Toumpas, Viney and Watts all being A graders. And I believe every one of them are capable of it. I think our current list has that potential under a leader like Roos.

We shall see soon enough

Posted (edited)

compare hawks and the blues

I would argue not a huge difference between their top 6.

hawks bottom 6 smash the blues bottom 6 every day of the week....

Pleases tell me Gibbs and Kruz aren't part of their best six. Edited by Al's Demons
Posted

Again, I don't want to turn this into the 400th instalment of the top six v bottom six debate, but when you are down the bottom of the ladder, growth doesn't come from the bottom players. You might argue that our bottom 6 are comparable to Carlton's too. But our top 6 are nowhere near it.

IMO, clubs down the bottom of the ladder need to develop a core top group of players to help push the up the ladder. Once that growth has been achieved, and you start looking like playing finals, then your bottom six need to come into the frame. Thus, yes, Carlton at the moment needs to fix its bottom six, or it won't compete with the likes of Hawthorn. Melbourne, on the other hand, needs to develop a top six capable of matching it with the better sides. Our bottom six is irrelevant until we have a top six that is good enough.

id argue that our top 22 aren't good enough

Posted

Everyone has to lift...its really that simple...not this 8 or that 6...everyone. No one is there yet, Jones included ( but close )

Posted

id argue that our top 22 aren't good enough

Well yes, I think that's a given.

What I was trying to say was, if we were to focus on either our top six or our bottom six, which should we focus on? My answer to that is the top six.

Posted

id argue that our top 22 aren't good enough

Hopefully what we will see from a Roos coached side, is no superstars to begin with but as I said 22 players each playing their role to a consistently high standard, the Swans had any number of players who if you looked at them in isolation you wouldn't think much but put them in a team.........and Roos has made sure he has hired guys who did exactly that to show the way....Mathews, Allison, McPherson, Miller........

  • Like 1

Posted

1. Mitch Clark, would need to kick a massive bag of goals for us to be contenders to make finals

2. Nathan Jones, would need to push over averaging 25+ disposals per game and become more of a ball magnet

3. Chris Dawes, would need to start dominating and support Clark and add some grunt

4. James Frawley, would need to have another stellar year and be All Australian

5. Jack Watts, might actually have to start pulling his finger out, get his numbers up and kick some goals too

6. Jack Trengove, would need to start tearing games open and finding the footy. But he has the potential

7. Bernie Vince, would need to become a real prominent midfielder and find the footy big time

8. Jeremy Howe, would need to start being amazing at a more consistent level. The different between his good and bad would have to shrink.

Notice i did not include viney, Hogan, Toumpas, pick 9, Tyson might all have to have a serious impact but i cant include them because i feel as if they are too young to be so important. But they are important obviously.

Especially Viney

Posted

Wrong approach.. You should be looking at our bottom tier best 22 players stepping it up.. It's these players that are going to bring us into top 8 contention..

Eg..

Evans - Avg 20 Disposals and 1 goal a game.

Tapscott - Shuts down opposition forward each week.

Kent - Kicks 35 goals as forward pocket..

Michie - Avg 28 Disposals and 1 goal a game

Jamar - back to AA form

Howe - 40-50 goals

McDonald - AA CHB

Trengove - Avg 30 disposals

If things like the above happen, the 8 players you mentioned should lift their game regardless..

You're only as good as your bottom players.. need the whole team to step up..

You are nuts to say 35 goals from Kent, Michie to average so high, Howe 40-50 and Trengove 30 disposals.

Lower the bar 20-30% and we'd be much improved even still

Posted

I agree with the point that when you are weak, your best six keep you from being pathetic, and when you are strong, your weakest six are what can push you right to the very top.

A quick look at Carlton tells the story, really - they can look truly potent when key players are having good days, and are generally competitive, but until they add that depth they aren't going to be advancing anywhere further than mid-table/lower end of final 8.

I still think Richmond have to make that leap, too - their recent history has been all about their best six. I'm sure we've all experienced those conversations where a Richmond supporter rattles off a quick list of their 'big names' and challenges anyone to match it. Cotchin, Deledio, Riewoldt, Maric, Martin, umm... Jake King?

Posted

Wrong approach.. You should be looking at our bottom tier best 22 players stepping it up.. It's these players that are going to bring us into top 8 contention..

How is that you posted this hours ago and BH hasn't yet told you about the importance of the top 6?

And I hope he does because it's a theory I support.

Depth is obviously important but we need 3 or 4 players to elevate themselves into the elite category. At the moment Jones is close and Frawley qualifies when at his best and Garland went close this year. Clark was in the class but for only briefly due to injury. If these four players are all fit and in form we're on our way. We then need two midfielders to emerge into that category to make us a serious footy team. Obviously Viney and Tyson are best placed to be those players. I've never been more confident that a player yet to play will enter the elite category as I am with Hogan. Toumpas, Watts and pick 9 still give us hope and I'm stubborn in my support of Max Gawn. I can't wait to see what he's capable of if the injury Gods give him a consistent crack at it over the next three seasons. If Frawley, Clark, Hogan, Jones, Viney and Tyson have All Australian years over the next three or four seasons we could become a contender. It's a good spread of talent across the field. The obvious benefits of having an elite top 6 is the pressure it takes of the next tier. Players like Watts, Howe and Blease suddenly become the cream and appear better than they otherwise would. Anyway, I'll let BH take it from here . . .

  • Like 1
Posted

Everyone has to lift...its really that simple...not this 8 or that 6...everyone. No one is there yet, Jones included ( but close )

Agree but it helps to recruit the best

c97fff633f75b7900c7d9ee6524abe39.jpg

Some how I feel these guys would have done better then the 2013 MFC Team.

Posted

Wrong approach.. You should be looking at our bottom tier best 22 players stepping it up.. It's these players that are going to bring us into top 8 contention..

Eg..

Evans - Avg 20 Disposals and 1 goal a game.

Tapscott - Shuts down opposition forward each week.

Kent - Kicks 35 goals as forward pocket..

Michie - Avg 28 Disposals and 1 goal a game

Jamar - back to AA form

Howe - 40-50 goals

McDonald - AA CHB

Trengove - Avg 30 disposals

If things like the above happen, the 8 players you mentioned should lift their game regardless..

You're only as good as your bottom players.. need the whole team to step up..

If those guys pulled off those stats/achievements, they'd be our top 8 players.

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

Wrong approach.. You should be looking at our bottom tier best 22 players stepping it up.. It's these players that are going to bring us into top 8 contention..

Eg..

Evans - Avg 20 Disposals and 1 goal a game.

Tapscott - Shuts down opposition forward each week.

Kent - Kicks 35 goals as forward pocket..

Michie - Avg 28 Disposals and 1 goal a game

Jamar - back to AA form

Howe - 40-50 goals

McDonald - AA CHB

Trengove - Avg 30 disposals

If things like the above happen, the 8 players you mentioned should lift their game regardless..

You're only as good as your bottom players.. need the whole team to step up..

If those guys pulled off those stats/achievements, they'd be our top 8 players.

Agreed. Only Swan and Ablett averaged more than 30 disposals last year. If Trengove and Michie could get 28 and 30 it would make them two of the best mids in the competition...that's a pretty big step to take from a guy that hasn't fired a shot in two years and a guy who's played one AFL game.

For the record, I don't think it's a debate of bottom 8 players vs top 8 players making the difference, I think it's more that their improvement should complement each other. As our senior players improve, their leadership, attitudes, work ethic should rub off onto the "bottom tier" of players. Similarly, as the bottom tier improve, it makes it easier for the top tier to improve. For example, if Trengove wins the ball more often then Mitch Clark and Chris Dawes will be beneficiaries of that.

It's a bit of a chicken and egg argument, really.

Edited by Good Times Grimes

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    TRAINING: Friday 22nd November 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers were out in force on a scorching morning out at Gosch's Paddock for the final session before the whole squad reunites for the Preseason Training Camp. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS It’s going to be a scorcher today but I’m in the shade at Gosch’s Paddock ready to bring you some observations from the final session before the Preseason Training Camp next week.  Salem, Fritsch & Campbell are already on the track. Still no number on Campbell’s

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports 3

    UP IN LIGHTS by Whispering Jack

    Those who watched the 2024 Marsh AFL National Championships closely this year would not be particularly surprised that Melbourne selected Victoria Country pair Harvey Langford and Xavier Lindsay on the first night of the AFL National Draft. The two left-footed midfielders are as different as chalk and cheese but they had similar impacts in their Coates Talent League teams and in the National Championships in 2024. Their interstate side was edged out at the very end of the tournament for tea

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features

    TRAINING: Wednesday 20th November 2024

    It’s a beautiful cool morning down at Gosch’s Paddock and I’ve arrived early to bring you my observations from today’s session. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Reigning Keith Bluey Truscott champion Jack Viney is the first one out on the track.  Jack’s wearing the red version of the new training guernsey which is the only version available for sale at the Demon Shop. TRAINING: Viney, Clarry, Lever, TMac, Rivers, Petty, McVee, Bowey, JVR, Hore, Tom Campbell (in tr

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Monday 18th November 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers ventured down to Gosch's Paddock for the final week of training for the 1st to 4th Years until they are joined by the rest of the senior squad for Preseason Training Camp in Mansfield next week. WAYNE RUSSELL'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS No Ollie, Chin, Riv today, but Rick & Spargs turned up and McDonald was there in casual attire. Seston, and Howes did a lot of boundary running, and Tom Campbell continued his work with individual trainer in non-MFC

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    2024 Player Reviews: #11 Max Gawn

    Champion ruckman and brilliant leader, Max Gawn earned his seventh All-Australian team blazer and constantly held the team up on his shoulders in what was truly a difficult season for the Demons. Date of Birth: 30 December 1991 Height: 209cm Games MFC 2024: 21 Career Total: 224 Goals MFC 2024: 11 Career Total: 109 Brownlow Medal Votes: 13 Melbourne Football Club: 2nd Best & Fairest: 405 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 12

    2024 Player Reviews: #36 Kysaiah Pickett

    The Demons’ aggressive small forward who kicks goals and defends the Demons’ ball in the forward arc. When he’s on song, he’s unstoppable but he did blot his copybook with a three week suspension in the final round. Date of Birth: 2 June 2001 Height: 171cm Games MFC 2024: 21 Career Total: 106 Goals MFC 2024: 36 Career Total: 161 Brownlow Medal Votes: 3 Melbourne Football Club: 4th Best & Fairest: 369 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    TRAINING: Friday 15th November 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers took advantage of the beautiful sunshine to head down to Gosch's Paddock and witness the return of Clayton Oliver to club for his first session in the lead up to the 2025 season. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Clarry in the house!! Training: JVR, McVee, Windsor, Tholstrup, Woey, Brown, Petty, Adams, Chandler, Turner, Bowey, Seston, Kentfield, Laurie, Sparrow, Viney, Rivers, Jefferson, Hore, Howes, Verrall, AMW, Clarry Tom Campbell is here

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    2024 Player Reviews: #7 Jack Viney

    The tough on baller won his second Keith 'Bluey' Truscott Trophy in a narrow battle with skipper Max Gawn and Alex Neal-Bullen and battled on manfully in the face of a number of injury niggles. Date of Birth: 13 April 1994 Height: 178cm Games MFC 2024: 23 Career Total: 219 Goals MFC 2024: 10 Career Total: 66 Brownlow Medal Votes: 8

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 3

    TRAINING: Wednesday 13th November 2024

    A couple of Demonland Trackwatchers braved the rain and headed down to Gosch's paddock to bring you their observations from the second day of Preseason training for the 1st to 4th Year players. DITCHA'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS I attended some of the training today. Richo spoke to me and said not to believe what is in the media, as we will good this year. Jefferson and Kentfield looked big and strong.  Petty was doing all the training. Adams looked like he was in rehab.  KE

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!
×
×
  • Create New...