Drafted in 2011 hasn't played or got close to playing. Any other reasons needed?

As 'master' said above he missed most of his first year only playing 2 games maybe 3. One of those he was BOG against Box Hill on no preseason. Again limited prep this year and was very close to playing AFL in the last 2 games.

Why I would keep him is that he is a good size for a mid and has excellent skills, he is one of the few good kicks at the club, good overhead and a strong tackle. He does go missing in games and doesn't get involved enough and I think this is a confidence thing, with development being a priority at the cub we should keep the players who have his kind of raw talent.

Ok, this is where I point out the misnomer of depth; Davis could not get near replacing Frawley. If we are worried about losing James then spend ND18 on a yong, tall defender.

Davis would just be 'a body' from what I have seen and you can draft 'a body' from the VFL with Pick 60 of the Rookie Draft.

I know that Viney and co. have therir 'four pillars' that touch on character, performance, etc but my own rule now is; you don't get on the list unless you can do something elite right now.

Speed, marking, endurance, skills, hardness, clearances, etc - bring something to the table right now that could allow you to play a role at AFL level while developing as a player.

And that way depth is created from the fact that all players on the list can contribute something right away.

I get the point you're making rpfc. The logic behind my thinking is I'd much rather see us use those early picks on mids andalthough Davis is no world beater, he has displayed a lot of Chip's qualities at VFL level. Speed, run off half back, good spoiler, good mark and hard at the contest.

Also in case of injury we'd have a mature body that can come into the team, compared to say picking a kid at pick 60 who's only 18 and weighs in under 80kg.

Drafted in 2011 hasn't played or got close to playing. Any other reasons needed?

Jack Steven struggled at Saints for 2/3 years maybe 1 game in his first two years, granted Saints were fairly strong at the time, but with injuries maybe being a factor with Taggert if the footy dept see something he is more likely to be kept over those who have played and failed to deliver

I get the point you're making rpfc. The logic behind my thinking is I'd much rather see us use those early picks on mids andalthough Davis is no world beater, he has displayed a lot of Chip's qualities at VFL level. Speed, run off half back, good spoiler, good mark and hard at the contest.

Also in case of injury we'd have a mature body that can come into the team, compared to say picking a kid at pick 60 who's only 18 and weighs in under 80kg.

No doubt, but I don't think ND60 is the place to pick kids. I reckon it is a great place to pick a 22 year old from the state leagues on a one year deal. If you pick a teenager at ND60 - automatic 2 year deal - so that is a side argument but still relevant.

So I would agree with a one year deal for Davis over a teenager at ND60, but I think we have seen enough to make a judgement.

We keep Tapscott (contracted), jetta deserves another year - just starting to work out his role. Taggert deserves one year as does stark. Nicho might be kept, has good running ability, could be converted to a machine shut down mid. Davis will prob stay on the list. Blease will remain, no doubt. has defensive work issues but with a stern hand he could become a well rounded player.

as far as im concerned, watts is already gone. He may stay if we get roos, but i have a funny feeling he's been sorting out his exit for a while.

Unfortunatley Tom couch, magner, bail, Gillies and sellar will prob be delisted.

I hope watts goes. Hes the only real currency the club has to trade for another top 20 pick or part of a swap for a decent mid. Watts is talented no doubt but ive never been convinced he'll reach his potential. Hes a cherry on top type of player.

Jack Steven struggled at Saints for 2/3 years maybe 1 game in his first two years, granted Saints were fairly strong at the time, but with injuries maybe being a factor with Taggert if the footy dept see something he is more likely to be kept over those who have played and failed to deliver

Yep and Michael Tuck played 50 reserve games..

Really when guys like Terlich, Jones and even guys like Barlow, Podisadly can play straight away we don't have the luxury of more michael newtons.

Guys we have a contract thread to check out before you comment on those contracted. Unfortunately it includes a lot of guys I don't want on the list. And also remember Hogan will come onto the list.

So:

Retirements: Rodan, Davey, Macdonald

Delistings:

- Sellar - no need for another depth tall when we have Pedersen

- Gillies - see above

- Davis - see above

- Jetta - just hasn't showed enough

- Tynan - not coming on quick enough, poor skills

- Nicholson - skills and vision aren't up to it

- Couch ® - slow, small, poor skills

- Magner ® - see Magner

Trades if we can get anything

- Blease

- Struass

- Bail

- Tapscott

In terms of main list its 9 changes plus maybe more with trades. Hogan will come on and then we'd need to find 8 more: 5 draft, 1 PSD, possible rookie upgrade for Clisby, 1 PSD/FA, possibly traded players in for a player for player trade. So that's how it's looking.

pretty much spot on.

Rodan, DAvey, MacDonald, Sellar, Gillies, Davies, Jetta.

Tynan 90-10 Nicholson 90-10 to go.

Nicholson might be saved due to his tank/role playing ability and it's unlikely we will cut 9 if we lose some to FA as well.

Yep and Michael Tuck played 50 reserve games..

Really when guys like Terlich, Jones and even guys like Barlow, Podisadly can play straight away we don't have the luxury of more michael newtons.

Terlich was he not on the Swans list before being delisted, if injuries are the only thing holding Taggert back but the club thinks they have sorted that out then I would keep him

I hope watts goes. Hes the only real currency the club has to trade for another top 20 pick or part of a swap for a decent mid. Watts is talented no doubt but ive never been convinced he'll reach his potential. Hes a cherry on top type of player.

lol... I hope that photo goes.... Farout.... Lol... Some pictures have got to stay in the photo album....

Edited September 3, 201312 yr by tatu

haha , i know my hair is a bit messy but it was windy down here on the bay that day

Tynan would have to be in trouble, Davis too. It'll be interesting to see what happens to Bail, Nicholson, Jetta, Tapscott and Strauss. I think all of them would be more likely to be moved on ahead of Blease. I personally wouldn't mind keeping Jetta, Nicholson I think is a little hard done by, but along with Tapscott and Bail they just haven't shown enough in their careers. Tapscott in paticular, his first two AFL games were his top 2 possession games. Has barely seen the ball in the 16 games he's played this year, not been a dangerous enough forward and even has lost some of that aggression. Strauss has had so many injury issues it's hard to know if its worth persisting. If I had my way, Pedersen and Byrnes would go as well as Gillies and probably Sellar. Then again with Joel Macdonald going we'd want to look at another defender. I would've probably wanted Dunn to depart a month or two ago but he's JUST won me back. Couch is done, but I'm hoping Magner stays put. Taggert might go too. Jamar was very underwhelming in the games he played this year, but he's still of some value to us. (Not sure what that means for Gawn and Spencer though, especially Gawn who would probably be 3rd ruckman in line and hasn't proved a good enough 2nd ruck)

Guys we have a contract thread to check out before you comment on those contracted. Unfortunately it includes a lot of guys I don't want on the list. And also remember Hogan will come onto the list.

So:

Retirements: Rodan, Davey, Macdonald

Delistings:

- Sellar - no need for another depth tall when we have Pedersen

- Gillies - see above

- Davis - see above

- Jetta - just hasn't showed enough

- Tynan - not coming on quick enough, poor skills

- Nicholson - skills and vision aren't up to it

- Couch ® - slow, small, poor skills

- Magner ® - see Magner

Possibly Stark ® - injured all year and not great when he isn't

Trades if we can get anything

- Blease

- Struass

- Bail

- Tapscott

In terms of main list its 9 changes plus maybe more with trades. Hogan will come on and then we'd need to find 8 more: 5 draft, 1 PSD, possible rookie upgrade for Clisby, 1 PSD/FA, possibly traded players in for a player for player trade. So that's how it's looking.

Thats why they call you the master

Very good analysis in my opinion I would add trade Jamar though and if we could get pick 9 or 10 for Jack I would let Watts go for an experienced Mid fielder

Edited September 3, 201312 yr by jackaub

Tynan has to go, he was injury free almost all year, in one of the worst years in history and they still didnt give him a game.

I see Taggert a litttle different as it was really his first year and will be a lot better once he gets his fitness base up.

I remember reading an article on the AFL website about Melbourne and it mentioned Stark. It went on to to say hes been injured all year but the main thing i got from it was that they really rated him.. He's only 19 and it said he could really play. Just injured a bit. Worth persisting with, for at least another season.

Jack Steven struggled at Saints for 2/3 years maybe 1 game in his first two years, granted Saints were fairly strong at the time, but with injuries maybe being a factor with Taggert if the footy dept see something he is more likely to be kept over those who have played and failed to deliver

Yep and Michael Tuck played 50 reserve games..

Really when guys like Terlich, Jones and even guys like Barlow, Podisadly can play straight away we don't have the luxury of more michael newtons.

good posts.ive followed jack steven career since he was 14. mother brought him up and did a wonderful job

when he got to saints ,he was in ressies and playing terrible footy.i even thought hed come home.but it took 4 years and is now an elite mid

tuck, was similar and the hawks kept him in ressies for 3 years

your environment sometimes dictates your output

Stick Mckenzie on the list people.

Useless & VFL at best.

Tynan would have to be in trouble, Davis too. It'll be interesting to see what happens to Bail, Nicholson, Jetta, Tapscott and Strauss. I think all of them would be more likely to be moved on ahead of Blease. I personally wouldn't mind keeping Jetta, Nicholson I think is a little hard done by, but along with Tapscott and Bail they just haven't shown enough in their careers. Tapscott in paticular, his first two AFL games were his top 2 possession games. Has barely seen the ball in the 16 games he's played this year, not been a dangerous enough forward and even has lost some of that aggression. Strauss has had so many injury issues it's hard to know if its worth persisting. If I had my way, Pedersen and Byrnes would go as well as Gillies and probably Sellar. Then again with Joel Macdonald going we'd want to look at another defender. I would've probably wanted Dunn to depart a month or two ago but he's JUST won me back. Couch is done, but I'm hoping Magner stays put. Taggert might go too. Jamar was very underwhelming in the games he played this year, but he's still of some value to us. (Not sure what that means for Gawn and Spencer though, especially Gawn who would probably be 3rd ruckman in line and hasn't proved a good enough 2nd ruck)

Delist -- Nicho,Sellar,Gillies,Tynan,Taggert,Davis

Trade -- Watts,Tapscott,Bail Blease,Strauss, Jamar if possible

The serial underperformers at the club are Silvia pick 3, Tapscott -18,Strauss-19,Blease- 17 and Pederson-15

Pederson because he has 2 years to go and is worth little can play the swing man

We have done well with mature age guys with late picks should try some more

So What can we get for my proposed trades

Stick Mckenzie on the list people.

Useless & VFL at best.

contracted

RETIRE:

• Rodan
• Davey
• MacDonald

DELIST:

• Gillies
• Davis
• Sellar
• Tynan
• Taggert
• Jetta
• Stark ®

TOTAL of 10 people off the list/s.

UPGRADE:

Clisby, Couch, and Magner (all one year contracts). I only choose to upgrade these as they are constantly better at the VFL level than those stated above.

Hogan will come onto the main list.

Now a TOTAL of 5 spots available on the main list (for drafting ND and PSD, or trading inclusions), with 4 rookie positions available (club dependent).

I chose to leave out Nicholson and Bail due to their work ethic, I believe they warrant a spot over those stated above. If anyone is to come off that delisting list I would choose Taggert first then secondly Jetta.

All that above is on the basis that Watts and Sylvia re-sign with the club.

Yeah, I wouldn't bother with Magner and Couch.

It really is dependent on who we can bring in and whether we get a PP but I would:

Watts, Sylvia (UFA), Davey (RFA), Taggert, Tynan, Nicholson, MacDonald, Sellar, Jetta, Davis, Couch ®, Magner ®, Rodan, Gillies, Clisby ®, Stark ®

That is 8 PL spots and 2 RL spots. With Hogan, ND2, ND17, ND35, ND55, and PSD2 as they 6 additions that are a baseline to bring into the club. I have left two spots for a FA, Delisted FA and/or Draft Assistance. If there is a better option out there better than Tynan and Taggert then pull the trigger there aswell. Both should be available for RL if desired. And if we have a spot available and we keep missing our targets then upgrading Clisby is an option.

I think it would be so harsh to get rid of Tynan or Taggert, both injured for majority of 2012 and if I remember correctly neither got a full pre season in this year?

Also what is the point on cutting a 19 and 20 year old just to pick up 2 more 18 year olds, already put 2 years into these ones may as well give them another year or 2 now that they have the weight on. Its likely we would be cutting them for picks 60 and above so we are just going backwards again... knowing our board this will probably happen and we will go further back. Tynan played round 1 last year and had 14 possesions and didn't look out of place, got injured in round 2 and out for most of year before back in rd23. Taggert injured for whole year. Suprised neither got a game this year after they both showed good form in VFL at stages.

Hope the board see's it this way.

I think we should delist Nicholson, Sellar, Davis, Couch, Gillies. Rodan, JMAC and Davey are retired. Trade Watts and Magner.

If Nicholson isn't delisted this year, then I just give up.

Retired: Davey, Rodan, MacDonald

Senior: Spencer, Gillies, Nicholson, Davis, Taggert, Bail, Jetta

Rookie: Magner, Couch

Bail is contracted.