Our ability to grab the ball in traffic or use the ball in traffic is astonishingly bad. Our blokes have no idea whatsoever about how to drive their bodies through the line of the ball.

You are so right Tony, we are afraid to attack the bal.l We are slowthinking and flatfooted no wonder we get caught all the time No one attcks the ball we always choose the option and hand pass backwards to a stationery player who does the same until the pressure causes a turn over If that is how we are coached gold help us>

Nice to see we have a self confessed passenger on the delusion train Nasher.

That train is gathering significant speed me thinks.

They dont spread its as simple as that.

And if they do the kicker is either too slow or just not confident enough to put it in front for the player to run on to.

We are about as bad as Fitzroy when they were on death row (with apologies to Fitzroy!), and yet worrying about Basil Zemplis? FMD - it's degenerated to a grief reaction focused on anything but our peahearts and the lack of optimism that things can get better!

BTW was that Jack Grimes worst game He looked painfully slow weak in the body and made poor decisions all game

No leadership

BTW was that Jack Grimes worst game He looked painfully slow weak in the body and made poor decisions all game

No leadership

Yes that was his worst game I can recall but what does painfully, slow, poor decisions and weak in the body have to do with leadership.

NB: He has looked like he lost significant body mass since coming back from his shoulder.

Thankfully this is all for me this season. After having every weekend ruined by this crap team, I am taking next Sunday off to enjoy my birthday and not have it ruined by this club.

Suck it up princess.

"As the year goes on you can go one of two ways. You can either sook about it and give up, or you keep fighting. For me it's an obvious answer": Jack Viney.

BTW, happy birthday.

in all fairness to Jaded Maurie weve had to suck it up a lot longer than JV !!

NB: He has looked like he lost significant body mass since coming back from his shoulder.

Understatement. Someone give the lad a sandwich.

BTW was that Jack Grimes worst game He looked painfully slow weak in the body and made poor decisions all game

No leadership

Not a great game from Jack that's for sure but, on at least two of the occasions he was caught, he was the recipient of thoughless handballs.

Yes that was his worst game I can recall but what does painfully, slow, poor decisions and weak in the body have to do with leadership.

NB: He has looked like he lost significant body mass since coming back from his shoulder.

Hard on Grimes. Maybe it looked different on the TV but he at least got where the ball was and defended well. He did get caught a bit.

Neeld has at best delayed if not cruelled Grimes career (and Trengove as well) by putting the burden of captaining a very poor team before he'd even established himself as a mature AFL footballer. Let's hope he recovers some of his abilities under a new coach. Fortunately Trengove, who suffered the same fate, seems to be improving and at least now deserves his spot in the team. It's so sad to see what's happened to those two and it was just so predictable to anyone who thought beyond the romantic notion of having such young captains.

Craig's comments after the game say so much about the previous blokes when he talks about a full preseason to reassemble the playing group and the long term challenge of rebuilding their confidence and self respect. Craig paints a pretty bleak picture for 2014.

Adelaide had 11 individual goalkickers.

We had 4.

This is been a problem for far too long.

We need some quality delivery into our forward 50 as well as some goal kicking mid-fielders or we will be stuck scoring 6 to 7 goals a game for the foreseeable future.

I'm not sure what you think the 'problem' is here. Number of goal-kickers? Or generally number of goals kicked? The latter is an issue, the former is not.

Either way, we all know the problem. Our midfield is a disgrace, leaving us with far too few inside 50s, and of the ones we get, too high a proportion of them are wasted (turnovers, targets missed, deep into pockets, etc.). But with a forward line including Clark, Dawes and Hogan, if we can improve on the midfield, the goal-kickers will present themselves.

in all fairness to Jaded Maurie we've had to suck it up a lot longer than JV !!

Well if Jaded is 26, I've been sucking it up twice as long as she's been alive.

Just watched the replay and, frankly, I've seen much worse in recent times. As much as I find it difficult to understand how we've got to where we are, I can still see that if we can find (or train) some players to create some clearances, we can be competitive. We were for quite a big chunk of this game. A lack of on-field leadership means that when the opposition gets a roll-on, there doesn't seem to be anyone who can marshall the forces to stem the flow. It's not enough to simply set an example. With our lack of confidence & experience someone needs to tell our payers what to do and where to be. I hope part of the leadership training next season will be about 'generalship' rather than media training.

Anyway, this can all probably be fixed with some inspired (or maybe just competent) recruiting and some well thought out development strategies. Hope I start 2014 with more confidence than 2013 and we get a couple of priority pick Xmas presents.

I'm not sure what you think the 'problem' is here. Number of goal-kickers? Or generally number of goals kicked? The latter is an issue, the former is not.

Either way, we all know the problem. Our midfield is a disgrace, leaving us with far too few inside 50s, and of the ones we get, too high a proportion of them are wasted (turnovers, targets missed, deep into pockets, etc.). But with a forward line including Clark, Dawes and Hogan, if we can improve on the midfield, the goal-kickers will present themselves.

It's pretty obvious that when good teams use their forwards and their midfielders to kick goals they have a much larger number of individual goal kickers. We will not win games with 4 players kicking two goals each. We need a forward who can bag at least 4-6 goals as well as a supporting cast of around 6 players from our forwards and midfield that contribute 2-3 goals each. That is the "problem".

It's pretty obvious that when good teams use their forwards and their midfielders to kick goals they have a much larger number of individual goal kickers. We will not win games with 4 players kicking two goals each. We need a forward who can bag at least 4-6 goals as well as a supporting cast of around 6 players from our forwards and midfield that contribute 2-3 goals each. That is the "problem".

I don't think you're really focusing on a big issue. The number of goal-kickers we have right now is being hampered by our inability to get the ball close enough to the goal, which in turns stifles our attempts to have shots on goal.

As I said, next year we will have Clark, Dawes and Hogan, each of whom is capable of being the forward who can bag 4 goals a week. We can then add Howe and potentially Watts to our half-forward line, as well as Kent as a smaller forward (though we need to look at a true forward pocket). As for midfielders who kick goals, clearly we lack those, but that takes us back to the real issue, which is our midfield.

A better midfield turns our forwards into players who kick the number of goals you think they should.

I don't think you're really focusing on a big issue. The number of goal-kickers we have right now is being hampered by our inability to get the ball close enough to the goal, which in turns stifles our attempts to have shots on goal.

As I said, next year we will have Clark, Dawes and Hogan, each of whom is capable of being the forward who can bag 4 goals a week. We can then add Howe and potentially Watts to our half-forward line, as well as Kent as a smaller forward (though we need to look at a true forward pocket). As for midfielders who kick goals, clearly we lack those, but that takes us back to the real issue, which is our midfield.

A better midfield turns our forwards into players who kick the number of goals you think they should.

This is "post match discussion" not "crystal balling for next year". If we focus on yesterday and had eleven goal kickers like Adelaide we would not have lost by 60 points.

Jack Trengove is averaging over 20 touches in the 10 games since Craig took over

He is definitely turning things around

He will dominate in 2014 with support around him and hopefully he gets a sprint coach for the pre-season

No doubt we got the bad end of the umpires but our discipline yesterday was a disgrace. An absolute disgrace!

And that includes the peanuts behind the interchange blunder. Amateur hour at the mfc.

Edited August 25, 201312 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

This is "post match discussion" not "crystal balling for next year". If we focus on yesterday and had eleven goal kickers like Adelaide we would not have lost by 60 points.

Discussing areas in which we need to improve after a game's done and dusted is not mutually exclusive from considering our future.

In fact, they're the same thing.

You're focused on the fact that we don't have enough goal-kickers in our side. I believe that focus is ill-directed and is by and large a byproduct of our poor midfield failing to generate enough meaningful inside 50s.

We are, in essence, looking to the same thing - we need a better midfield to help create more opportunities, the end result of which will be more players scoring.

Not a great game from Jack that's for sure but, on at least two of the occasions he was caught, he was the recipient of thoughless handballs.

BBO he was caught holding the ball 3 times in the one quarter because like all other melbourne players he doesnt attack the footy at speed or he takes too long to decide what to do

We do not play natural footy at the moment there is nothin intuitive

Discussing areas in which we need to improve after a game's done and dusted is not mutually exclusive from considering our future.

In fact, they're the same thing.

You're focused on the fact that we don't have enough goal-kickers in our side. I believe that focus is ill-directed and is by and large a byproduct of our poor midfield failing to generate enough meaningful inside 50s.

We are, in essence, looking to the same thing - we need a better midfield to help create more opportunities, the end result of which will be more players scoring.

Asking for midfielders and forwards to kick goals is "ill directed"?

Take a break mate...

Asking for midfielders and forwards to kick goals is "ill directed"?

Take a break mate...

Ill-directed, simplistic, missing the bigger picture, something like that.

Don't worry if you're not following.

Ill-directed, simplistic, missing the bigger picture, something like that.

Don't worry if you're not following.

We're not all here to solve the entire problem for the club mate. Just want to raise the issues that concern us.

If you're not interested don't read them.

Unlike you I don't feel the need to belittle people. It reflects poorly on you, not me.

Hard on Grimes. Maybe it looked different on the TV but he at least got where the ball was and defended well. He did get caught a bit.

Neeld has at best delayed if not cruelled Grimes career (and Trengove as well) by putting the burden of captaining a very poor team before he'd even established himself as a mature AFL footballer. Let's hope he recovers some of his abilities under a new coach. Fortunately Trengove, who suffered the same fate, seems to be improving and at least now deserves his spot in the team. It's so sad to see what's happened to those two and it was just so predictable to anyone who thought beyond the romantic notion of having such young captains.

Craig's comments after the game say so much about the previous blokes when he talks about a full preseason to reassemble the playing group and the long term challenge of rebuilding their confidence and self respect. Craig paints a pretty bleak picture for 2014.

Agree. It doesn't auger well for keeping blokes and gaining others.