I have just read The Hun articles.

Did the AFL sign an ASADA agreement or WADA agreement?

Does it matter?

Seems very strange that ASADA would seek to make a deal with Essendrug.

I now believe this is why the ASADA CEO was replaced and a Federal Court Judge bought in.

WADA still rule

Bombers still delusional if they proceed.

Signing to ASADA code, means you are under the WADA code, ASADA is the local regulatory body of WADA

Signing to ASADA code, means you are under the WADA code, ASADA is the local regulatory body of WADA

Exactly.

So why would ASADA even entertain the idea of bargaining....Thus people at ASADA were replaced with more competent employees

Id ask why the "journalist" did not attach a copy of the original agreement to their article. It looks like they cherry picked some words to string together a sentence that makes it look like ASADA did not honour its agreement.

i heard it all from a very reliable source also inside Carlton.

3 players had bad fractures and they went to Ratten furious...it then rolled.

Well one of them was Carrazo's shoulder blade from a tackle where he was pinned and ridden into the ground, which had nothing to do with any peptides.

From memory the Bombers won that game by around 4 to 5 goals so lets not rewrite history or cloud our memories of the Bombers back in 2012.

Do they deserve everything they get - Yes

Were they superhuman - No

Did they do the same as they had in the 2 previous seasons - Yes they crashed and burned after fantastic starts

Lets just see an "innocent"player walk into asada and say "righteo im innocent,do you best to prove a case against me".

It hasnt happened and i dont think it will happen,they had chances and maintained innocence,so unleash the SCs and INs.

Id ask why the "journalist" did not attach a copy of the original agreement to their article. It looks like they cherry picked some words to string together a sentence that makes it look like ASADA did not honour its agreement.

never let the facts get in the way of a good story....

Well one of them was Carrazo's shoulder blade from a tackle where he was pinned and ridden into the ground, which had nothing to do with any peptides.

From memory the Bombers won that game by around 4 to 5 goals so lets not rewrite history or cloud our memories of the Bombers back in 2012.

Do they deserve everything they get - Yes

Were they superhuman - No

Did they do the same as they had in the 2 previous seasons - Yes they crashed and burned after fantastic starts

excuse me. I am not rewriting history.

It was after this game in 2012 that the off site doctors clinics were outed.

excuse me. I am not rewriting history.

It was after this game in 2012 that the off site doctors clinics were outed.

WYL I have seen games were 3 to 4 players break limbs and this is just football. Carrazzo went to ground in a very clumsy tackle nothing to do with peptides

Are you trying to tell me Essendon where superhuman to the point where they were able to break bones just by their extra strength.

Interesting in that it seems essendope do in fact keep some records.........when it suits them...hmmmm

"In their defence, the Bombers provided specifics of their injury troubles in 2012 when they were plagued by soft-tissue problems, which ''significantly exceeded'' previous seasons.

''In 2012, [Essendon] players suffered 30 hamstring injuries compared to a 10-year average of 9.2, missing 88 games compared to a 10-year average of 29.1,'' the document says."

Well put, it makes a mockery of the EFC story that they have no records pertaining to the pharmacological program.

They must think the rest of the world is stupid.

To demote and then dismiss "the weapon" because of the increase in soft tissue injuries during the experimental pharmacological program, one would presume that they know that the players injured were on something different, which lead to the increase in soft tissue injury. Otherwise it could be coincidental. In which case "the Weapon" may have better luck in his wrongful dismissal case. Either way they are screwed.

WYL I have seen games were 3 to 4 players break limbs and this is just football. Carrazzo went to ground in a very clumsy tackle nothing to do with peptides

Are you trying to tell me Essendon where superhuman to the point where they were able to break bones just by their extra strength.

Yes i am.

In terms of quickened muscle recovery.

Essendon were a truckload stronger than Carlton that day.

Precisely why Ratten and the Carlton Physio were spoken to straight after the game.

We all witnessed how Essendrug jumped out of the starting block in 2012.

The muscles they had built up over the preseason with Dank & the Weapon were not only stronger but larger.

Remember this game was fought "on the good stuff"

Yes i am.

In terms of quickened muscle recovery.

Essendon were a truckload stronger than Carlton that day.

Precisely why Ratten and the Carlton Physio were spoken to straight after the game.

We all witnessed how Essendrug jumped out of the starting block in 2012.

The muscles they had built up over the preseason with Dank & the Weapon were not only stronger but larger.

Remember this game was fought "on the good stuff"

okay that is your take on it but what happened in round 1-3 and was anything raised by the opposition then.

my recollection is that Carlton started the 2012 season off like a house on fire and Essendrug had started the season not exactly setting the world on fire but winning 3 games unconvincingly against 3 teams who they were expected to beat.

They met in Round 4 where Carlton went in as heavy favourites having belted Collingwood the weak before and were being talked up as big flag contenders, the way they lost drew a lot of attention to Essendon's performance on that day.

My view is there is a fine line between getting players fitness right and getting it terribly wrong. Players need to be bigger to play AFL but you also run the risk of making them to big and sacrificing endurance and running the risk of soft tissue injuries due to bodies being pushed to the limit. If I am correct everytime Essendon were on television in 2012 there was a lot of hype around Dean Robinson who was always referred to as "The weapon" and fools in the media like BT were feting him as a big time celebrity. There was very little said about Dank until last year.

IMO the Essendon side of 2012 was no bigger or stronger than the Cats sides of that era or the Lions side of the early noughties.

They pushed the boundaries and they got it terribly wrong and deserve to pay the consequences.

http://www.healio.com/endocrinology/reproduction-androgen-disorders/news/print/endocrine-today/%7Bb2249bda-2e27-421c-9f77-0aca481fefb9%7D/use-of-performance-enhancing-drugs-challenges-experts-remains-a-moving-target

"For example, Wexler cited a meta-analysis of 44 trials published in the Annals of Internal Medicine in 2008 indicating that GH increased lean body mass but had no effect on strength or exercise capacity. Moreover, the researchers found that participants treated with GH had significantly higher lactate levels during exercise in two of three studies evaluating that outcome. These participants also appeared to experience more soft tissue edema and fatigue when compared with those not treated with GH."

I know it's referring to Growth Hormone, interesting nevertheless.

The unprecedented level of hamstring and soft tissue injuries in 2012 does tend to at least pose a question or two.

Edited June 18, 201411 yr by jabberwocky

okay that is your take on it but what happened in round 1-3 and was anything raised by the opposition then.

my recollection is that Carlton started the 2012 season off like a house on fire and Essendrug had started the season not exactly setting the world on fire but winning 3 games unconvincingly against 3 teams who they were expected to beat.

They met in Round 4 where Carlton went in as heavy favourites having belted Collingwood the weak before and were being talked up as big flag contenders, the way they lost drew a lot of attention to Essendon's performance on that day.

My view is there is a fine line between getting players fitness right and getting it terribly wrong. Players need to be bigger to play AFL but you also run the risk of making them to big and sacrificing endurance and running the risk of soft tissue injuries due to bodies being pushed to the limit. If I am correct everytime Essendon were on television in 2012 there was a lot of hype around Dean Robinson who was always referred to as "The weapon" and fools in the media like BT were feting him as a big time celebrity. There was very little said about Dank until last year.

IMO the Essendon side of 2012 was no bigger or stronger than the Cats sides of that era or the Lions side of the early noughties.

They pushed the boundaries and they got it terribly wrong and deserve to pay the consequences.

I am merely passing on what Carlton players of that game told club officials straight after the game.

Brisbane of 2001-4 were also on a special juice i suspecf but they got away with it.

Didn't Nigel Lappin play the 2004 GF with broken ribs!!

That is just outrageous. He must have been a complete science experiment that day!!

Will be interesting to see if Ess settle this one with "Ian" Robinson in case he tries to subpoena some

people who know too much...

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dean-robinson-set-to-subpoena-bombers-in-fight-for-pay-20140617-zsavg.html

Agreed. I am intrigued by the line in the article that "Robinson's legal team had yet to review almost 1000 documents that had been made available ...". Presumably these are from Essendon, which would make most interesting reading ...

Agreed. I am intrigued by the line in the article that "Robinson's legal team had yet to review almost 1000 documents that had been made available ...". Presumably these are from Essendon, which would make most interesting reading ...

it would probably be 998 pages with "we didnt do anything wrong"

1 of "Stand by hird"

and 1 with a picture of Jobe

it would probably be 998 pages with "we didnt do anything wrong"

1 of "Stand by hird"

and 1 with a picture of Jobe

997 pages of we didnt do nuffink.

1 page of stand by hirs

1 with a picture of jobe.

and 1 page of flight details to france via singapore.

So Essendon is arguing to the Supreme Court (re: dismissal of Robinson) that the supplements program was a mess, while at the same time arguing to ASADA that it wasn't?

So Essendon is arguing to the Supreme Court (re: dismissal of Robinson) that the supplements program was a mess, while at the same time arguing to ASADA that it wasn't?

No,i would think they argued,weapons program was a mess.

No,i would think they argued,weapons program was a mess.

who was working under Dank?

No,i would think they argued,weapons program was a mess.

Weapon, who was an employee of the EFC. So ultimately it is EFC's mess.

Players association wont rule out legal action against ASADA,

I find it hard to believe how many people are painting ASADA as the bad guy, they aren't the big bad wolf, they are trying to protect the game from cheating and more importantly the health of the players

Players association wont rule out legal action against ASADA,

I find it hard to believe how many people are painting ASADA as the bad guy, they aren't the big bad wolf, they are trying to protect the game from cheating and more importantly the health of the players

true, but they have made a few bad decisions leaving them open to criticism

Lets just see an "innocent"player walk into asada and say "righteo im innocent,do you best to prove a case against me".

It hasnt happened and i dont think it will happen,they had chances and maintained innocence,so unleash the SCs and INs.

Asada do not have to prove anything. They have issued Show cause notices.

It's up to the player to explain his innocents, not the other way round.

If they can't prove they didn't get TB4 injected then infraction notices will be issued.

Because the majority are saying they don't know what was injected, they should be aiming to get the penalties reduced to a minimum.

If the plead not guilty of taking TB 4 there is a fair chance they will be found guilty and given a 2 year penalty.

If they plead guilty by association they may be able to bargain a lesser penalty.

Either way they are guilty.

This is my opinion only.

IMHO the AFLPA have made the wrong decision. They should have made a determined effort to advise the players involved to make the ight and clever decision to seek the best outcomes given their predicament. Instead they go the maverick gung ho route....idiots

They are trying to delay their response until after the Essendon court action to see what information might come out of that. Seems like a smart move to me. They haven't made a decision to take them in at this point just delaying their response to see what further information they can gather to inform it.