i agree arbitration follows a failure to initially agree via negotiation

i disagree that arbitration is the end of any further negotiation (in some circumstances)

but as binman said we are getting too semantic

i originally only picked you up on the statement that negotiation by its nature is confidential

i have not come across any definition of negotiation which mentions confidentiality as a condition

Yep, you're right about what I originally said, so fair call there.

Negotiation does not always end with arbitration, nor does arbitration always come after negotiation. That's just how it usually happens.

You do realise that we negotiated the penalties we received for our tanking investigation, don't you?

no...ive been under a rock for the last ten years ..

That this was the outcome is truly contentious on many fronts, the least of which is actually the guilt of what.

Please dont compare the issue of list management with the scurrilous actions as taken by EFC. We rolled, needlessly in my view.

Essendon are negotiating where none ought to be able. If nothing else I sit in awe of their gall and in contempt of the league.

Two days of it and so little that's new in this Herald Sun "expose".

Just more of Hird's leaking against Evans and trying to punish Demetriou.

Keep it up sunshine...it can only come back and bite you in the @#%@ some time in the future.

Its often mooted footy is just business.

That, BB, is your problem right there.

Footy wasn't always a business (that's when we were good at it by the way).

But since the '70s it has become increasingly so, and under Andrew D that process has sped up as broadcast rights have become so inflated.

The last thing business gives a rat's about is ethics and standards.

It's about dollars and deals and that is where the AFL has taken us.

This stuff with Essendon is classic. I don't doubt Hird's allegation that AD leaked to his mate what was going on - that's just an extension of the old boys' club and insider trading. Sadly that's what we are lumped with.

AFL: No pay for Hird was a verbal guarantee

see this is why you always get it in writing !!! lol

you geese AFL

AFL: No pay for Hird was a verbal guarantee

see this is why you always get it in writing !!! lol

you geese AFL

I just posted something similar in the AFL in trouble thread. Your post got to the heart of the matter much more effectively (and in a lot less words!) Geese indeed.

No result yet on Essendon training people without permission or have I missed it?

Not a good time for Essendon to be pulling the Tigers tail.

The penalty will be rising by the hour!

No result yet on Essendon training people without permission or have I missed it?

Not a good time for Essendon to be pulling the Tigers tail.

The penalty will be rising by the hour!

what penalty Old...arent they going to get away with it all scott free ?? or are you coming to this side of the st ? lol

I just posted something similar in the AFL in trouble thread. Your post got to the heart of the matter much more effectively (and in a lot less words!) Geese indeed.

we've of the same thinking I feel.

I do still smell a rat...big time. Was this 'purposely " left of the written agreement ? plausible deniability etc.

I still think something very shonky occurred re that call of Vlads way back to that little Messendon soiree !!

messydrugs arrogance is only matched by that of the afl - lol

looking forward to Baker and McKenzies return of serve as they no doubt once again dismantle camp Hird

what penalty Old...arent they going to get away with it all scott free ?? or are you coming to this side of the st ? lol

Two different situations bb.

this is black and white they either did it or they didn't

Two different situations bb.

this is black and white they either did it or they didn't

There's no colour in either situation

This issue about the verbal agreement as to no payment is quite interesting. If the AFL wants to seriously pursue it, then it's going to have some interesting legal hurdles to overcome. If they really care about it, then to not have put it in the agreement is some pretty sloppy work (again) from the AFL.

no...ive been under a rock for the last ten years ..

That this was the outcome is truly contentious on many fronts, the least of which is actually the guilt of what.

Please dont compare the issue of list management with the scurrilous actions as taken by EFC. We rolled, needlessly in my view.

Essendon are negotiating where none ought to be able. If nothing else I sit in awe of their gall and in contempt of the league.

I'm not in any way suggesting the magnitude of Melbourne's conduct is the same as Essendon's. What I am suggesting is that the process was similar. Part of that process involved Melbourne negotiating with the AFL to reach an outcome, just like Essendon did. Whether you agree with either of the two outcomes, the process was the same.

I'm not in any way suggesting the magnitude of Melbourne's conduct is the same as Essendon's. What I am suggesting is that the process was similar. Part of that process involved Melbourne negotiating with the AFL to reach an outcome, just like Essendon did. Whether you agree with either of the two outcomes, the process was the same.

At least similar.....

Yes strangely I agree the process was similar. That in itself could speak volumes about those committing as much of the skulduggery as the supposed transgressors.

Some may view the omission ( re pay( hird)) as simple oversight. I wonder though, seriously. Not much about anything the league does ever seems logical or straightforward but more often than not seems scented with the aroma of agenda.

Ah yes.....agenda!!!

The mystery abounds......

If the AFL ever thought that ASADA/WADA would accept their punitive meassures, they better think again.

ASADA to appeal Saad ban: http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/asada-to-appeal-afls-saad-finding-20131205-2yrt3.html

If the AFL ever thought that ASADA/WADA would accept their punitive meassures, they better think again.ASADA to appeal Saad ban: http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/asada-to-appeal-afls-saad-finding-20131205-2yrt3.html

Hardtack, I'm not sure I have any faith in Asada at all. It seems they are great when it's a 'lesser' club and a smaller issue (which involved accidental ingestion of a prohibited substance) but are toothless when it comes to dealing with a systematic program of injecting prohibited substances.

Hardtack, I'm not sure I have any faith in Asada at all. It seems they are great when it's a 'lesser' club and a smaller issue (which involved accidental ingestion of a prohibited substance) but are toothless when it comes to dealing with a systematic program of injecting prohibited substances.

On what do you base that? I'm not across all things drugs in sport related, but I can't say I'm aware of anything that ASADA has turned a blind eye to. And as ASADA are directly answerable to WADA, I doubt very much that they will be wanting to put themselves in a position where they themselves could come under investigation by their higher authority.

Hi Hardtack, well for starters it concerns me that Wylie, (hope that's his name) was involved in obtaining a resolution between the AFL and Essendon regarding getting Hird to plead guilty. My clear understanding is that ASADA operates under his Sports Integrity Commission. So why the hell is he involved in brokering a deal?

Secondly, we very quickly see an appeal in relation to the lesser issue of Saad which feels incredibly out of whack to the speed and severity of their reaction to the systematic, deliberate approach by theBombers.

We will ,of course, see what happens. But I am not confident that wrongs will be righted based as much on intuition as anything.

I have no faith in ASADA at all, they have shown themselves already as compromised.

I HAVE FAITH IN WADA...they have a much bigger stick and know how to whack !!

I have no faith in ASADA at all, they have shown themselves already as compromised.

I HAVE FAITH IN WADA...they have a much bigger stick and know how to whack !!

I'm inclined to agree with you Beelzebub but I readily admit that i do not have a clue as to the outcome and I also suspect News Ltd is out to trap Vlad

how are ASADA compromised BB?

some people think this is an easy case for asada

don't know if they have the staff to handle AFL/ARL plus normal athlete problems in a short time

the more it drags on drives everybody crazy with excitement, but im willing to be patient and ignore fat robbos little snide remarks trying to destabilise the case against jobe and friends