OUT: Abbott IN: Turnbull

[dpositive 1,547]

What just cause he went for the photo opportunity of carrying his own luggage on to the plane,paused, put down his luggage to turn and wave to the enthralled media at the top of the steps and then just about put his back out as he grabbed the wrong handle !

Didnt see that but is a reflection of his fitness

Like a thoroughbred or high performance vehicle any variation in movement can have an impact on muscle structures.

Not unlike the elite athletes who succumb to injury in what are mundane manners and must be rehabilitated carefully.

I wonder if this slip will get the coverage of Julia when she slipped off her heels?

[hardtack 10,127]

Didnt see that but is a reflection of his fitness

Like a thoroughbred or high performance vehicle any variation in movement can have an impact on muscle structures.

Not unlike the elite athletes who succumb to injury in what are mundane manners and must be rehabilitated carefully.

I wonder if this slip will get the coverage of Julia when she slipped off her heels?

I'd be more concerned about a "costume malfunction" when he is doing a meet and greet at one of the beach side suburbs in the old budgie smugglers.

[Earl Hood 5,789]

Latest from Tony at Davos. The GFC never happened, just a beat up by some left wing bleeding hearts. Audience reaction was muted as most slept through it. Those who stayed awake wondered why he was talking to them like they were half wits!

[dee-luded 2,958]

Latest from Tony at Davos. The GFC never happened, just a beat up by some left wing bleeding hearts. Audience reaction was muted as most slept through it. Those who stayed awake wondered why he was talking to them like they were half wits!

those who lead the money world, the right whingers, always say there was nothing wrong when their policies go awry. even when some of their highest fliers are spending the rest of their lives in penitentiaries,,, they still say nothing was wrong

.

but when social spending takes place, & especially when money has been spent by the Leftist social democrats, who've come in to set up the worlds economies, stuffed by the Rights Highest Fliers.

the right wingers all want to say their was nothing to fix, making out they ware the only ones to trust Re handling the economy.

.... they are the ones who continually burn out their economies thru over inflation, which causes a change of government.

Then the lefts have to come in, to clean up the mess, & once the recession is virtually over, then the right wants back in, to reap the rewards, dividends, & claim the financial high ground all over again.

until they bring on the next recessionary period.

they give out all the tax concessions,,, so their isn't any money left to spend, on hospitals, public schools, & the public transport system.

run down the schools trades schools & public hospital system & the ambulance system so to force every one onto private health insurance. just like the duopoly in the supermarkets, the price of health will skyrocket once the public system is gone.

once we've lost our car industry completely, the infrastructure,,,, then all cars will be imported, & within 5 years of that, we will be getting shafted by overseas car manufacturers, theu price, and with service & repairs.

[Hannibal 5,814]

once we've lost our car industry completely, the infrastructure,,,, then all cars will be imported...

You're funny.

The unions always want more and more and more. Better conditions, more money, better hours, etc.

Then when businesses can't make money due to continuous excessive demands over long periods, due to high production costs, when the pie has shrunk and shrunk and shrunk, you blame conservatives for the loss of industry.

Yeah, you're funny.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Hannibal

[Hannibal 5,814]

Latest from Tony at Davos. The GFC never happened, just a beat up by some left wing bleeding hearts. Audience reaction was muted as most slept through it. Those who stayed awake wondered why he was talking to them like they were half wits!

It was a great speech and Abbott was bang on.

Don't you believe in small government and freer markets ?

[Hannibal 5,814]

Not a single boat arrival in 5 weeks. This is the first time for 5 years. And no drownings at sea.

Yet the left are more damning of the Coalitions border protection policies than ever.

Seemingly, they'd rather deaths at sea and people locked up in detention centres than the Coalition's policies being seen to be working.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Hannibal

[dpositive 1,547]

Not a single boat arrival in 5 weeks. This is the first time for 5 years. And no drownings at sea.

Yet the left are more damning of the Coalitions border protection policies than ever.

Seemingly, they'd rather deaths at sea and people locked up in detention centres than the Coalition's policies being seen to be working.

Hope you are right about the boats.

As the minister is not reporting, the navy doesnt know where it is and there is a monsoon season out there we have no idea if there are any deaths at sea.

I am not left but I dont really want to see people locked up in detention centres just humane and efficient processing of refugees and migrants.

[dee-luded 2,958]

You're funny.

The unions always want more and more and more. Better conditions, more money, better hours, etc.

Then when businesses can't make money due to continuous excessive demands over long periods, due to high production costs, when the pie has shrunk and shrunk and shrunk, you blame conservatives for the loss of industry.

Yeah, you're funny.

really

actually I used to be a safety officer on sites, & first aid officer, & eventually a shop steward as well along the journey. the union was impressed and after a couple of years tried to set me up into a career in the union, & further.

even arranging me into a position during the 90's recession when there was no work. I never took that position. and I was liked & disliked by all sides. even had retail business people thanking me, for helping them out, against the companies who were screwing them.

I got out of it after that site, as I decided then & there I didn't like the pressure of the politics, as the stewards are the meat in the sandwich, between the builder, the site owners, the Unions, & the workers themselves.

All were playing there own games, against one-another. The builder, using the unions actions, to charge the site owner for more money in contract adjustments. and thru the courts.

the stewards to get safer conditions, & some to get more overtime for the workers. some were more militant & played the game. I played it straight & honest.

the builder & centre-mangement screwed the smaller retailers for extra money, & held them to ransom, 'time wise' in favour of the 'Majors' (tenants).

my experience from these, & from life experiences, is that nearly all people want more & more, & IMO the most greedy are the tall poppies, who Squeak the loudest, & the longest. & want more pay, margins, & less taxes & more fringe benefits, free or otherwise, with these benefits claimable on their tax as well.

so no, I don't have the impression that all problems are unions. But to me all problems stem from greed, & those who want the biggest slice of pie. mostly the tall poppies.

its only entering globalisation that has exposed us all to the 3rd world labour markets, via greedy people who were never content with their margins at home. the stockmarkets, always wanting more margin & profits each & every year, so the boards can have more profits for themselves.

the winners are the 3rd world countries, & the losers are the western manufacturers, farmers, & workers. & our local small businesses, flailing under attack from major manufacturing plants overseas, originally setup with western money.

& now the engineering knowledge, skills & factories have all been taken over by Asian wealth.

this is like a cancer, attacking the very body that gave it life in the first place. its going to kill itself.

so if i'm funny, you must be deluded.

[Hannibal 5,814]

SNIP

You should join the Communist Party.

[dee-luded 2,958]

You should join the Communist Party.

the Only problem with that is, I'm not a communist & nowhere near a communist.

I believe wholeheartedly in democracy. but a true clean democracy, where there is no money or promises/favours, changing from the hands of politicians & lobbyists & their big money partners.

Our democracy has become polluted with corruption like most things Re power & wealth/status.

still your team will always throw out that old cliche`, when they have nothing better to say.

Have you checked for the Reds under your bed tonight... they may well be under there, listening to your snores, deciphering the tones & frequencies, trying to read your minds secrets before you awake.

by the way, did you watch the tennis tonight, a chinese spy was there on-court, taking more of our money away from us.

you'd better have her investigated. do you know what her hubby was doing, whilst she distracted us all?

sweet dreams.

[Guest]

Not a single boat arrival in 5 weeks. This is the first time for 5 years. And no drownings at sea.

Yet the left are more damning of the Coalitions border protection policies than ever.

Seemingly, they'd rather deaths at sea and people locked up in detention centres than the Coalition's policies being seen to be working.

Or at least none we have heard of. Thank you Scott Morrison.

And the left would not prefer to see people locked up. The left, or at least myself, would prefer to see community based processing and a genuine attempt at engagement with countries in the region to reduce the number of boats that arrive.

The coalition's (and the ALP's) 'border protection' policies have been akin to treating dandruff by decapitation. The lack of leadership and pandering to the lowest common denominator on both sides of mainstream politics has been nothing short of disgraceful and should be remembered as one of the darkest moments in our nation's history.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Colin B. Flaubert

[Hannibal 5,814]

And the left would not prefer to see people locked up. The left, or at least myself, would prefer to see community based processing and a genuine attempt at engagement with countries in the region to reduce the number of boats that arrive.

How bout none at all ?

Surely that's best ?

[Guest]

How bout none at all ?

Surely that's best ?

And they used to criticize the left about being unrealistic...

[Hannibal 5,814]

And they used to criticize the left about being unrealistic...

So if you want community based processing you understand you're encouraging many more to come here. You're encouraging many more to risk their lives. More deaths will follow. You're encouraging people smugglers to ramp up their industry. An industry where desperate people are lied to.

See where all this compassion gets you ?

Nah, didn't think so.

[Guest]

So if you want community based processing you understand you're encouraging many more to come here. You're encouraging many more to risk their lives. More deaths will follow. You're encouraging people smugglers to ramp up their industry. An industry where desperate people are lied to.

See where all this compassion gets you ?

Nah, didn't think so.

Here is where you can't see the trees for the forest and where your right wing talking points fail you.

Do you really think that these asylum seekers just appeared out of thin air one day in a boat and started heading towards Australia? They went through a process to get here which usually ended up in Indonesia. People have incredibly short memories when it comes to asylum seeker policy. They seem to look at the Howard era and think that is the only approach that need be taken when looking at refugee issues.

The truth is, when we had a prime minister who showed some actual leadership and who stood up to the demagogues, we faced a much larger issue regarding asylum seeker policy. During the peak of the Vietnamese immigration to Australia, we were taking in 5600 asylum seekers every month. However, Malcolm Fraser, and we know how much you love him Ben, refused to listen to the race baiters and rabble rousers and allowed them access to Australian society. That being said, the settlement rate was woefully low and the infrastructure and support networks initially left much to be desired. This was done in the short term while Fraser ultimately negotiated to create an orderly resettlement program and an increase of the formal refugee intake. This ultimately discouraged people to make the perilous journey and ultimately 'stopped the boats' (said in my best suburban nasal drawl).

What we are not seeing here is the creation of a policy that is both humane and discourages the journey. The road that leads to this policy starts with dialogue. Instead we have seen a government who thinks they can bully their way to policy outcomes with third parties who have no vested interest in kowtowing to their talking points (Holden and the Indonesian government though I have a different opinion on Holden). Instead of trying to engage with the region, we have seen the Abbott government cause Indonesia to increase it's maritime security, be exposed for having ASIO spy on it's prime minister's wife and then refusing to go through the proper process and make a reasonable apology and tried to buy Indonesian fishing boats. The Gillard government made a start on trying to engage with the region but they still had it arse backwards in that they were going to deal with Malaysia but still based on the model of imprisoning people.

The issue is not stopping (and turning around) the boats when they have just arrived on our doorstep. The issue is to ensure that we fulfill our obligations under the '56 refugee convention and make sure people don't have to get on boats.

I also take exception to this sudden 'humanitarian' spiel given by the Tories on this issue. This is merely convenient for them to appear like functioning human beings in lieu of their use of dog whistle politics to appeal to a racist undercurrent in Australian society. I find it amusing that they insist their motives are as pure as the driven snow on this issue and then make statements that 'most of these asylum seekers aren't fair dinkum refugees' (this was Tony Abbott during the last general election but arse hat and opportunist extraordinaire, Bob Carr made similar statements) and that the total of 7000 boat arrivals (which pales in comparison to unauthorized arrivals who come here by plane) are somehow 'clogging up traffic in Sydney's outer west'. This also comes from a bloke who says that he is a supporter of the Howard government's approach to refugees. Apparently he must have been a supporter of jazzing up photos of asylum seekers in the water into being something they are not and portraying them as some kind of other that must be kept out: 'We will decide how people come here'. Spare me this rot about we are doing this to be compassionate.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Colin B. Flaubert

[Hannibal 5,814]

A lot of words without a lot of meaning. I don't have any problem with increasing our intake through proper channels. As a country though it's incumbent on us to know who is coming and where from. We should be controlling intake, not smugglers. We should also dissuade people from perilous journeys across our seas.

I'm not opposed to more dialogue and doing our part to resettle the disadvantaged and those that can contribute to our nation.

We haven't had a boat arrive in 5 weeks and to me that's a good thing. I'm not so sure you see it that way.

[Guest]

A lot of words without a lot of meaning. I don't have any problem with increasing our intake through proper channels. As a country though it's incumbent on us to know who is coming and where from. We should be controlling intake, not smugglers. We should also dissuade people from perilous journeys across our seas.

I'm not opposed to more dialogue and doing our part to resettle the disadvantaged and those that can contribute to our nation.

We haven't had a boat arrive in 5 weeks and to me that's a good thing. I'm not so sure you see it that way.

Let me start by saying that the easiest and most intellectually sloppy way of debate is dismissing an opinion, or in this case facts, out of hand.

Well, they mean nothing to you because they aren't simplistic sloganeering. When we talk about words without meaning, a lot of what you put up here are the same shallow catchphrases that the coalition put up during the last 4 years and two election cycles. And you tell me that what I say is without meaning.

We are slowly getting to the crux of this issue. You talk about 'controlling intake' however when has the issue of intake ever been an issue? Are we being flooded by refugees? We take in less than 10% of our overall migration quota in the case of unauthorized boat arrivals. We rank 69th in the amount of refugees we accept per 1000 people (1 per 1000) and rank 49th for total refugee intake (30,000). The reality is that foreign hordes are not invading our country and never were.

I find it interesting that you say that it is incumbent upon a nation to know where people are from. When has anyone suggested that we just let people in without any form of verification? Most of us on the 'left', as you and Andrew Bolt condescendingly say, have always believed there should be a process. It should just be a process in which some human rights standards are observed. It should not also be one in which we spend roughly $450,000 per head detaining desperate people in dilapidated housing. Talk about fiscal conservatism....

[dpositive 1,547]

So if you want community based processing you understand you're encouraging many more to come here. You're encouraging many more to risk their lives. More deaths will follow. You're encouraging people smugglers to ramp up their industry. An industry where desperate people are lied to.

See where all this compassion gets you ?

Nah, didn't think so.

Surely as an intelligent and skilled country we should be able to quickly appraise the merits of asylum seekers, accepting genuine cases and rejecting any who are economic migrants or do not fullfil the requirements of being persecuted.We should be able to this more efficiently and effectively if they are in our community rather than placed in isolated inhospitable and difficult to access locations. I would place greater confidence in our local communities in assesing wether a newcomer has valid compassionate reasons and can contribute skills and abilities to their communities than I do the awkward processes of bureaucracy administered externally.

Alternatively increase our involvement at UN level to both process and improve conditions at the source. As CF states above this does require dialogue and a greater consideration of the outcomes.

[Earl Hood 5,789]

A lot of words without a lot of meaning. I don't have any problem with increasing our intake through proper channels. As a country though it's incumbent on us to know who is coming and where from. We should be controlling intake, not smugglers. We should also dissuade people from perilous journeys across our seas.

I'm not opposed to more dialogue and doing our part to resettle the disadvantaged and those that can contribute to our nation.

We haven't had a boat arrive in 5 weeks and to me that's a good thing. I'm not so sure you see it that way.

Hannibal

Lets do it now. Hire a cruise ship and send it up to Indonesia to take on board refugees and process them there and then. Those that meet refugee status we take or distribute to other partner state we have negotiated with. I think Malcolm Frazier has advocated this approach in recent times, although perhaps without the boat. You would be up for this Hannibal because your only concern is about legitimate refugees drowning at sea, otherwise you are happy for all to come here, yes?

[Carrot Top 947]

Whatever Tony is, he ain't Kevin and he ain't Julia.

It's not pretty, but it isn't as ugly as it was 2007 - 2013.

[Biffen 12,327]

Whatever Tony is, he ain't Kevin and he ain't Julia.

It's not pretty, but it isn't as ugly as it was 2007 - 2013.

You are truly a man of letters and conviction.

Thank You for rousing yourself from your vivid dream to pass on that pearl at 2a.m.

We look forward to your next vision with great anticipation.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Biffen

[Hannibal 5,814]

Hannibal

Lets do it now. Hire a cruise ship and send it up to Indonesia to take on board refugees and process them there and then. Those that meet refugee status we take or distribute to other partner state we have negotiated with. I think Malcolm Frazier has advocated this approach in recent times, although perhaps without the boat. You would be up for this Hannibal because your only concern is about legitimate refugees drowning at sea, otherwise you are happy for all to come here, yes?

I don't want deaths at sea (I'm assuming you don't), I don't want a thriving people smuggling industry and I want to choose who comes here, or at least know who they are.

But let me be frank, again, I'm not overly invested in the fate of refugees. I'm not paid to form policy. I'm not paid to solve complex problems.

If you'd like to share your work or thesis regarding displaced peoples or those fleeing supposed life threatening situations, by all means submit me a copy. I'll read it during an ad break of the cricket.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Hannibal

[Carrot Top 947]

You are truly a man of letters and conviction.

Thank You for rousing yourself from your vivid dream to pass on that pearl at 2a.m.

We look forward to your next vision with great anticipation.

I might not be inspiring, but at least I don't constantly talk [censored] like you do.

[daisycutter 28,549]

you certainly hit the nail on the head there ct

biffo can talk [censored] with the best of them

eat [censored]