OUT: Abbott IN: Turnbull

[mauriesy 6,790]

Would you agree that the Teachers Union is a fairly left wing organisation?

So how is the label important to the education debate, other than you wanting to inject your usual right-wing irrelevance?

I suppose any union by your out-dated perspective will be "left-wing". Time we moved past such divisive language and got around to improving the teaching of kids.

[nutbean 8,837]

So you think an ATAR below 50 is a "fail"?

A certificate of completion is irrelevant to anyone with a low ATAR. They can do nothing with it.

Not at all.

An ATAR has nothing to do with pass/fail ( as you know)

You did say you dont pass or fail VCE. - you get that certificate and you can truthfully put on your resumethat you attained year 12 education.

[dee-luded 2,958]

whats goin' on !!!

uncle tony abbott has been chasing down the former liberal & ex house speakers Taxi fares, but then neglects his shoplifting & abusive assaulting fellow liberal politician, & then also does nothing about the possible fraud of the taxpayers coffers.

its alleged that former Liberal MP of 23 Years, Alex Somlyay.

Documents obtained by Fairfax Media indicate Alex Somlyay, an MP for 23 years who retired at the election in September, billed taxpayers $69,157.15 for his wife's employment during 2012-13 alone.

Mr Somlyay's wife was not seen at work during the past three years, said a source close to the electorate office.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/allegations-mps-wife-drew-taxpayerfunded-salary-despite-doing-no-work-20140113-30qwu.html#ixzz2qKlO8sZC

stop chasing taxi fares Tony, & cleanup your own closet cabinet & party.

[mauriesy 6,790]

If I kept all my "certificates of completion" from the last 50 years I could wallpaper the house. They're meaningless.

So do you think an employer will pay much heed to someone's resume that includes a VCE "completion" certificate showing an ATAR of 20? Unless they're a cake shop?

So what does it really matter if someone gets one? Try thinking beyond "pass-fail". Besides, do you really want to formally endorse heaps of kids as "failures"? What will that achieve?

The longer you go in life, the more irrelevant VCE becomes. After gaining university entrance, I have never, ever needed my "Matriculation" certificate. I think I lost it quite some time ago.

BTW, businesses are the greatest proponents of certificates. Sales, marketing, HR, management ... you never have to "pass" anything, just attend, participate ... and get a certificate.

[daisycutter 28,527]

whats goin' on !!!

uncle tony abbott has been chasing down the former liberal & ex house speakers Taxi fares, but then neglects his shoplifting & abusive assaulting fellow liberal politician, & then also does nothing about the possible fraud of the taxpayers coffers.

its alleged that former Liberal MP of 23 Years, Alex Somlyay.

Documents obtained by Fairfax Media indicate Alex Somlyay, an MP for 23 years who retired at the election in September, billed taxpayers $69,157.15 for his wife's employment during 2012-13 alone.

Mr Somlyay's wife was not seen at work during the past three years, said a source close to the electorate office.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/allegations-mps-wife-drew-taxpayerfunded-salary-despite-doing-no-work-20140113-30qwu.html#ixzz2qKlO8sZC

stop chasing taxi fares Tony, & cleanup your own closet cabinet & party.

so what d-l?

for every corrupt, or cheat or criminal in one party, i'll find you a matching one in the other party

and either side will try to gloss over or ignore it until it's too late

shysters, carpetbaggers, and makers'n'shakers will always throw up these types of individuals

it's as old as noah

[daisycutter 28,527]

If I kept all my "certificates of completion" from the last 50 years I could wallpaper the house. They're meaningless.

So do you think an employer will pay much heed to someone's resume that includes a VCE "completion" certificate showing an ATAR of 20? Unless they're a cake shop?

So what does it really matter if someone gets one? Try thinking beyond "pass-fail". Besides, do you really want to formally endorse heaps of kids as "failures"? What will that achieve?

The longer you go in life, the more irrelevant VCE becomes. After gaining university entrance, I have never, ever needed my "Matriculation" certificate. I think I lost it quite some time ago.

BTW, businesses are the greatest proponents of certificates. Sales, marketing, HR, management ... you never have to "pass" anything, just attend, participate ... and get a certificate.

maybe maurie, as jazza said, a little bit of realistic honesty might save some kids a wasted 2 years on their tradesman (or whatever) career

it might also free up some education money for better teachers and facilities

would have thought that was obvious

[nutbean 8,837]

If I kept all my "certificates of completion" from the last 50 years I could wallpaper the house. They're meaningless.

So do you think an employer will pay much heed to someone's resume that includes a VCE "completion" certificate showing an ATAR of 20? Unless they're a cake shop?

So what does it really matter if someone gets one? Try thinking beyond "pass-fail". Besides, do you really want to formally endorse heaps of kids as "failures"? What will that achieve?

The longer you go in life, the more irrelevant VCE becomes. After gaining university entrance, I have never, ever needed my "Matriculation" certificate. I think I lost it quite some time ago.

BTW, businesses are the greatest proponents of certificates. Sales, marketing, HR, management ... you never have to "pass" anything, just attend, participate ... and get a certificate.

I dont disagree with anything you say and having seen both my girls move from High school to Uni understand and support a system that moves away from the "Traditional" pass/fail model. I told both of them that their "enter" score was just a number - if they worked hard during school then they would move into one of their university courses of their choosing. The enter score became completely irrelevant the day after they received their uni course entrance.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Because you said "In other words the pass mark for teaching is barely a pass mark and that's the quality we are getting".

I thought even you would accept that there are exceptions to every rule.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

So how is the label important to the education debate, other than you wanting to inject your usual right-wing irrelevance?

I suppose any union by your out-dated perspective will be "left-wing". Time we moved past such divisive language and got around to improving the teaching of kids.

Probably just to counter your usual left win denial.

Just as a matter of interest, who do you think the Teachers Union will back in any election? No need to answer that we already know which Party it is.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

whats goin' on !!!

uncle tony abbott has been chasing down the former liberal & ex house speakers Taxi fares, but then neglects his shoplifting & abusive assaulting fellow liberal politician, & then also does nothing about the possible fraud of the taxpayers coffers.

its alleged that former Liberal MP of 23 Years, Alex Somlyay.

Documents obtained by Fairfax Media indicate Alex Somlyay, an MP for 23 years who retired at the election in September, billed taxpayers $69,157.15 for his wife's employment during 2012-13 alone.

Mr Somlyay's wife was not seen at work during the past three years, said a source close to the electorate office.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/allegations-mps-wife-drew-taxpayerfunded-salary-despite-doing-no-work-20140113-30qwu.html#ixzz2qKlO8sZC

stop chasing taxi fares Tony, & cleanup your own closet cabinet & party.

If Somlyay has cheated the system he should go to the slammer and he can share a cell with Thompson.

It would be interesting to see how many MP's employed family members and how many of them actually did any work. KR7 employed several of his kids when he was re elected leader of the Labor Party; I wonder how much time they put in and how much they were paid.

This could be a can of worms that the whole lot of them may wish had never been open.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

maybe maurie, as jazza said, a little bit of realistic honesty might save some kids a wasted 2 years on their tradesman (or whatever) career

it might also free up some education money for better teachers and facilities

would have thought that was obvious

One of my best friends was told by his teachers in year 9 that he was wasting his time at school as he was just not up to it.

He left, became a cabinet maker and has never regretted his decision, or their frankness. Pete's about 63 now so it was quite some time ago; imagine if they tried to say that to a student now.

[nutbean 8,837]

One of my best friends was told by his teachers in year 9 that he was wasting his time at school as he was just not up to it.

He left, became a cabinet maker and has never regretted his decision, or their frankness. Pete's about 63 now so it was quite some time ago; imagine if they tried to say that to a student now.

Some schools still go down that path...but too students who should seek other paths. They dont say not up to it. More that the schooling/uni path may not be right for the student. My girlfriends son had this exact conversation with his school in year 11 and agreed with them and is a happy 3 year chippy apprentice

[mauriesy 6,790]

I thought even you would accept that there are exceptions to every rule.

A Year 9-12 teacher with a high ATAR is the rule, not the exception.

[mauriesy 6,790]

He left, became a cabinet maker and has never regretted his decision, or their frankness. Pete's about 63 now so it was quite some time ago; imagine if they tried to say that to a student now.

They still tell students that often. It's what they have career teachers for. Something else governments have cut.

Pressure to stay to Year 12 comes from a variety of sources, most often parents. I went to Year 12 because my father made me. He wanted me to be a 'professional' and believed trades were for the 'working class'.

While I ended up getting two university degrees in Education and Arts, but I might have been much better off being a carpenter and becoming a builder. It would have been something I really loved.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

They still tell students that often. It's what they have career teachers for. Something else governments have cut.

Pressure to stay to Year 12 comes from a variety of sources, most often parents. I went to Year 12 because my father made me. He wanted me to be a 'professional' and believed trades were for the 'working class'.

While I ended up getting two university degrees in Education and Arts, but I might have been much better off being a carpenter and becoming a builder. It would have been something I really loved.

So you're a teacher.

[mauriesy 6,790]

So you're a teacher.

No, I'm not.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

No, I'm not.

Well there you go.

I won't make another guess.

[Earl Hood 5,789]

That's all very well and good and probably makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, but the problem is our students are falling further behind other Countries simply because we want to make our kids study the process instead of the content. Ever since Kirner we have had the ridiculous situation where everyone deserves to pass their VCE or whatever it is called this year. You get kids who are complete morons that pass their VCE when in reality they shouldn't have gone past year one at High School.

One of my friend's sons failed every year at school, but despite his mothers requests, he was promoted each time; he has serious issues and yet he passed his VCE, his father said at the time it was ludicrous. But that's ok, as long as everyone feels good, that's all that counts.

We can have smart kids or we can have not so smart kids.

Robbie thanks for your considered response. Yes I am warm and fuzzy tonight because my aircon has failed but not because of whatever you thought I meant in my post. So you ignored my main proposition about the characteristics of a good teacher and moved straight to the issue our falling standards agianst other countries. And then threw up one reason, process instead of content for the problem and then somehow managed to blame poor old Joan Kirner. that is a masterful effort in little more than a paragraph. Well done there.

The Gonski report spent much time by many experts developing a response to the problem you have identified. On the eve of its implementation of course our old friend Mr Pyne intervened to basically undermine its requirements while throwing even more money at it but not enforcing any of the States to match the fundingand the required improvement actions.

Now who would I back? A report by educational experts who have studied the declining educational standards issue and proposed solutions that entail extra funding to disadvantaged schools etc, etc amongst a variety of solutions or do I listen to someone from Brighton who has his opinions based on.....?

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Robbie thanks for your considered response. Yes I am warm and fuzzy tonight because my aircon has failed but not because of whatever you thought I meant in my post. So you ignored my main proposition about the characteristics of a good teacher and moved straight to the issue our falling standards agianst other countries. And then threw up one reason, process instead of content for the problem and then somehow managed to blame poor old Joan Kirner. that is a masterful effort in little more than a paragraph. Well done there.

The Gonski report spent much time by many experts developing a response to the problem you have identified. On the eve of its implementation of course our old friend Mr Pyne intervened to basically undermine its requirements while throwing even more money at it but not enforcing any of the States to match the fundingand the required improvement actions.

Now who would I back? A report by educational experts who have studied the declining educational standards issue and proposed solutions that entail extra funding to disadvantaged schools etc, etc amongst a variety of solutions or do I listen to someone from Brighton who has his opinions based on.....?

Based on children I've put through the education system and Grandchildren I am currently putting through the system.

[dee-luded 2,958]

so what d-l?

for every corrupt, or cheat or criminal in one party, i'll find you a matching one in the other party

and either side will try to gloss over or ignore it until it's too late

shysters, carpetbaggers, and makers'n'shakers will always throw up these types of individuals

it's as old as noah

Doing the right thing... if the culture 'has been' to exploit travel petty cash coffers in the past, then its a bit rich to demonise the ex liberal politician, because he stood for his principles against party lines in Real areas...

then they push him out, ostracise him, so he takes a cross bench seat, & they decide to really go after him using the police services as they're weapon of choice, to put the fear of the devil into him & any other Libs, thinking of a conscience vote here & there.

they turn a kind blind eye to the court cases of another colleague, of theft shoplifting, assault & abuse, & now this... possible fraud... hiring your partner, in ghost fashion only, but with a real wagepacket, at Our expence.... I wonder if she knew of the extra wage packet???

they have to either drop all court actions against Peter Slipper, or have a senate inquiry into this possible fraud & a public police investigation into this possible defrauding of the Australian people.

[dee-luded 2,958]

If Somlyay has cheated the system he should go to the slammer and he can share a cell with Thompson.

It would be interesting to see how many MP's employed family members and how many of them actually did any work. KR7 employed several of his kids when he was re elected leader of the Labor Party; I wonder how much time they put in and how much they were paid.

This could be a can of worms that the whole lot of them may wish had never been open.

agreed.

... lets see a full investigation into this, & following that, a real independent inquiry into all pollies Xploits of the AUS$ purse.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

agreed.

... lets see a full investigation into this, & following that, a real independent inquiry into all pollies Xploits of the AUS$ purse.

Let's not restrict it to Politicians.

http://www.insurancebusinessonline.com.au/news/asic-chairmans-taxpayer-funded-expenses-revealed-183006.aspx

[dpositive 1,547]

Probably just to counter your usual left win denial.

Just as a matter of interest, who do you think the Teachers Union will back in any election? No need to answer that we already know which Party it is.

Probably time to let this one go RF as the libs and the labour party through the Industrial relations reforms and individual contract processes have made unionism almost irrelevant in the workforce on a numerical basis. There are still some pockets of higher membership proportions but I havent seen any representation figures greater than 40 odd per cent.

While the union may support the party their members still vote independently.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Probably time to let this one go RF as the libs and the labour party through the Industrial relations reforms and individual contract processes have made unionism almost irrelevant in the workforce on a numerical basis. There are still some pockets of higher membership proportions but I havent seen any representation figures greater than 40 odd per cent.

While the union may support the party their members still vote independently.

That's true but when election time comes around all the members money, irrespective of who they support, goes to the Labor Party.

But you're right, I don't really care that much anymore and I'm not going to argue for the sake of it, it's too hot.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Let's not restrict it to Politicians.

http://www.insurancebusinessonline.com.au/news/asic-chairmans-taxpayer-funded-expenses-revealed-183006.aspx

Why not... why spread the focus in this thread as this is about Uncle Tony's hidden bodies agendas.

maybe its really Pell who's pull ing the strings.