OUT: Abbott IN: Turnbull

[dee-luded 2,959]

They certainly weren't conservative when it came to Medicare ..

If they'd had their way what with copayments and cutting hundreds of millions out of the forward estimates of the States' health budgets, then those worthless poor ( not including me I hasten to add) would have been forced to fend for themselves just as they should ( as happens in the Home of the Brave and the Land of the Free where those wretches have to sell their almost worthless houses to pay for their childrens' appendix operations which is just the market economy expressing itself as the cream rises to the top and the dregs sink).

I'm pretty sure they were on the right track

But why would they want to support universal health care anyway?

After all, it was brought in by Labor originally so it must be bad ipso facto.

So they probably were being conservative in a way - just conservative of the way it used to be before the poor had access to decent health care ( which I and many respectable surgeons maintain they don't deserve )

the old red white & blue... what ever happened to that theory of liberty, & when did it become a free for all who can afford enough gun power to keep others down?

I believe they were peace loving, at some point, although I can't remember when.

but then again Jesus wasn't a tory, nor a materialist.

#edit : ... so i guess its more like the roman empire's, crush kill destroy ethos ?

Edited September 15, 2015 by dee-luded

[Guest]

Well I thought it to be a reasonable rewording of Mr. A's plea for not changing leaders pre-last night's Liberal Party poll where he said by way of arguing against a leadership change : We're not Labor

So truly sorry to have to explain these things ......

https://youtu.be/O83vd0l-_Ew

Edited September 15, 2015 by Colin B. Flaubert

[Guest]

Now I've had my little gloat, I will make this point.

Alan Jones, Ray Hadley and Andrew Bolt may sound like they are making sense within their own little echo chamber. It's a world where the 'Left' need not be negotiated with but to be crushed like a sponge cake by a 4WD. In their universe, policy ambiguity doesn't exist either. It's almost like Atlas Shrugged was a historical text and not a work of fiction. Most of the guppy fish who call up or are studio guests are sycophantic to the point of embarrassment. If contrary opinions are expressed they are usually cut off or shouted down (especially in Hadley's case).

What we have seen with the Abbott government is what ACTUALLY happens when the ideas and political approach advocated in those sub-cultures enters the body politic. What seems so logical to Gladys in Rooty Hill cannot possibly work when you have to deal with people from a diversity of backgrounds.

I would like to quote the former speaker of the US house of representatives Sam Rayburn who said, ''Any jackass can kick a barn down, it takes a carpenter to build one.'' before I launch into my second point.

Abbott's mentor was B.A. Santamaria, a man who basically spent most of his time railing against the trends of modern society he didn't like (gays, abortion, feminism etc.). Sure, he was a vociferous anti Communist (and I believe for a period supported Mussolini and Franco prior to the second world war) but he was just as ferocious in his critique of free market capitalism. What was consistent in his viewpoints was the need to be 'against' things.

Wasn't that evident in Abbott's government? Going through his rather meagre list of 'achievements' at the end, most of them revolved around tearing down someone else's work. The one policy he did try to push through (paid maternity leave) bombed badly because, try as he might, building wasn't his forte.

Ultimately, he will be remembered in some ways as the Liberal Gough Whitlam. A brutally effective opposition leader who bought his party back to being electable (although the ALP had a much longer time in the shade than the Tories) but one whose inability to navigate the various mechanisms of governing ultimately playing a role in his downfall. The difference between the two was that Gough led a reform agenda of which much still stands today. In 40 years time, what will Tones have left behind (besides the findings of a royal commission into the treatment of asylum seekers in detention)?

Edited September 16, 2015 by Colin B. Flaubert

[P-man 13,366]

Col, love your work, but I implore you to consider spacing out your text before you post it. Would make it a lot easier to read and there's good stuff in there to be read.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Now I've had my little gloat, I will make this point.

Alan Jones, Ray Hadley and Andrew Bolt may sound like they are making sense within their own little echo chamber. It's a world where the 'Left' need not be negotiated with but to be crushed like a sponge cake by a 4WD. In their universe, policy ambiguity doesn't exist either. It's almost like Atlas Shrugged was a historical text and not a work of fiction. Most of the guppy fish who call up or are studio guests are sycophantic to the point of embarrassment. If contrary opinions are expressed they are usually cut off or shouted down (especially in Hadley's case).

What we have seen with the Abbott government is what ACTUALLY happens when the ideas and political approach advocated in those sub-cultures enters the body politic. What seems so logical to Gladys in Rooty Hill cannot possibly work when you have to deal with people from a diversity of backgrounds.

I would like to quote the former speaker of the US house of representatives Sam Rayburn who said, ''Any jackass can kick a barn down, it takes a carpenter to build one.'' before I launch into my second point.

Abbott's mentor was B.A. Santamaria, a man who basically spent most of his time railing against the trends of modern society he didn't like (gays, abortion, feminism etc.). Sure, he was a vociferous anti Communist (and I believe for a period supported Mussolini and Franco prior to the second world war) but he was just as ferocious in his critique of free market capitalism. What was consistent in his viewpoints was the need to be 'against' things.

Wasn't that evident in Abbott's government? Going through his rather meagre list of 'achievements' at the end, most of them revolved around tearing down someone else's work. The one policy he did try to push through (paid maternity leave) bombed badly because, try as he might, building wasn't his forte.

Ultimately, he will be remembered in some ways as the Liberal Gough Whitlam. A brutally effective opposition leader who bought his party back to being electable (although the ALP had a much longer time in the shade than the Tories) but one whose inability to navigate the various mechanisms of governing ultimately playing a role in his downfall. The difference between the two was that Gough led a reform agenda of which much still stands today. In 40 years time, what will Tones have left behind (besides the findings of a royal commission into the treatment of asylum seekers in detention)?

..... the rabbott was the antithesis of Gough; Gough was a carpenter; the rabbott was all jackass demolisher

[Crompton's the man 659]

https://youtu.be/O83vd0l-_Ew

Harsh

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Now I've had my little gloat, I will make this point.

Alan Jones, Ray Hadley and Andrew Bolt may sound like they are making sense within their own little echo chamber. It's a world where the 'Left' need not be negotiated with but to be crushed like a sponge cake by a 4WD. In their universe, policy ambiguity doesn't exist either. It's almost like Atlas Shrugged was a historical text and not a work of fiction. Most of the guppy fish who call up or are studio guests are sycophantic to the point of embarrassment. If contrary opinions are expressed they are usually cut off or shouted down (especially in Hadley's case).

What we have seen with the Abbott government is what ACTUALLY happens when the ideas and political approach advocated in those sub-cultures enters the body politic. What seems so logical to Gladys in Rooty Hill cannot possibly work when you have to deal with people from a diversity of backgrounds.

I would like to quote the former speaker of the US house of representatives Sam Rayburn who said, ''Any jackass can kick a barn down, it takes a carpenter to build one.'' before I launch into my second point.

Abbott's mentor was B.A. Santamaria, a man who basically spent most of his time railing against the trends of modern society he didn't like (gays, abortion, feminism etc.). Sure, he was a vociferous anti Communist (and I believe for a period supported Mussolini and Franco prior to the second world war) but he was just as ferocious in his critique of free market capitalism. What was consistent in his viewpoints was the need to be 'against' things.

Wasn't that evident in Abbott's government? Going through his rather meagre list of 'achievements' at the end, most of them revolved around tearing down someone else's work. The one policy he did try to push through (paid maternity leave) bombed badly because, try as he might, building wasn't his forte.

Ultimately, he will be remembered in some ways as the Liberal Gough Whitlam. A brutally effective opposition leader who bought his party back to being electable (although the ALP had a much longer time in the shade than the Tories) but one whose inability to navigate the various mechanisms of governing ultimately playing a role in his downfall. The difference between the two was that Gough led a reform agenda of which much still stands today. In 40 years time, what will Tones have left behind (besides the findings of a royal commission into the treatment of asylum seekers in detention)?

Good post Coiln other than the gloating bit

I must admit I don't listen to Ray Hadley or Alan Jones but I find your comments on their echo chamber interesting. I watch the publicly funded ABC and see the same thing. Don't know why I put myself through episode after of episode of Q&A and Insiders to see everybody furiously agree on gay marriage, climate change and assylum seekers. Any dissent from the populist progressive position is howled down.

Bit rough to call Abbott's list of achievements meagre given he was booted out so quickly. We were told he couldn't stop the boats, he did. We were told he couldn't repeal the carbon tax, he did. The paid maternity leave was a massive blunder as was the token cut to the ABC (more so for the promise not to do it). The FTA's were coming in and the Norther Food Bowl was to be the jewell in his crown.

Maybe you are right and he was just a wrecker, we will never know, but that wont stop most from having made up their mind.

[Guest]

Col, love your work, but I implore you to consider spacing out your text before you post it. Would make it a lot easier to read and there's good stuff in there to be read.

In what sense? Do you mean spaces between the paragraphs or are you saying I'm too wordy (which is a common criticism of me)?

I find it amusing that dee-luded liked that post!

Good post Coiln other than the gloating bit

I must admit I don't listen to Ray Hadley or Alan Jones but I find your comments on their echo chamber interesting. I watch the publicly funded ABC and see the same thing. Don't know why I put myself through episode after of episode of Q&A and Insiders to see everybody furiously agree on gay marriage, climate change and assylum seekers. Any dissent from the populist progressive position is howled down.

Bit rough to call Abbott's list of achievements meagre given he was booted out so quickly. We were told he couldn't stop the boats, he did. We were told he couldn't repeal the carbon tax, he did. The paid maternity leave was a massive blunder as was the token cut to the ABC (more so for the promise not to do it). The FTA's were coming in and the Norther Food Bowl was to be the jewell in his crown.

Maybe you are right and he was just a wrecker, we will never know, but that wont stop most from having made up their mind.

I think Q&A is the place idealism goes to die. The best Q&A's are the ones where they don't wheel out the political hacks from both mainstream parties who then proceed to defy basic laws of biology by talking out both sides of their mouth. It has become the Australian version of Crossfire (as Jon Stewart defined it so beautifully).

https://youtu.be/aFQFB5YpDZE

I have addressed the boats misnomer much earlier in this thread. I don't want to go through it again but as far as what Abbott achieved, keep the following in mind. Abbott's parliament had passed less votes than Billy McMahon's parliament at the same stage. Let that sink in.

[dee-luded 2,959]

In what sense? Do you mean spaces between the paragraphs or are you saying I'm too wordy (which is a common criticism of me)?

I find it amusing that dee-luded liked that post!

the text is very difficult to read, all squashed up, too close together,, difficult to read & focus on.

[P-man 13,366]

In what sense? Do you mean spaces between the paragraphs or are you saying I'm too wordy (which is a common criticism of me)?

I find it amusing that dee-luded liked that post!

Nah just between paras. No biggy.

[Guest]

Nah just between paras. No biggy.

Fixed.

[Guest]

..... the rabbott was the antithesis of Gough; Gough was a carpenter; the rabbott was all jackass demolisher

As far as political longevity goes, they had the same 'crash or crash through' streak about them which resulted in their demise.

As far as policy ambition goes, you are dead right and that was part of the point I was making.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

I think Q&A is the place idealism goes to die. The best Q&A's are the ones where they don't wheel out the political hacks from both mainstream parties who then proceed to defy basic laws of biology by talking out both sides of their mouth. It has become the Australian version of Crossfire (as Jon Stewart defined it so beautifully).

https://youtu.be/aFQFB5YpDZE

I have addressed the boats misnomer much earlier in this thread. I don't want to go through it again but as far as what Abbott achieved, keep the following in mind. Abbott's parliament had passed less votes than Billy McMahon's parliament at the same stage. Let that sink in.

That's hardly a reasonable measure. Aside from the fact that legislation often runs over a number of parliaments so it is not entirely accurate anyway and that some legislation is much more important than other. You have people like Jacqui Lambie in the Senate who block everything not on merit but rather to campaign on something that has nothing to do with what she is supposed to be assessing. Then you have Bill Shorten blocking things that Labor went to the election promising and the Greens voting down an indexation in petrol excise which they have previously strongly campaigned for. This says more about them than Abbott.

Measuring a Government of on bills passed is like rating a footballer on number of possessions. Dean Terlich averages more possessions that Christian Salem so he must be a better footballer type logic.

[dee-luded 2,959]

That's hardly a reasonable measure. Aside from the fact that legislation often runs over a number of parliaments so it is not entirely accurate anyway and that some legislation is much more important than other. You have people like Jacqui Lambie in the Senate who block everything not on merit but rather to campaign on something that has nothing to do with what she is supposed to be assessing. Then you have Bill Shorten blocking things that Labor went to the election promising and the Greens voting down an indexation in petrol excise which they have previously strongly campaigned for. This says more about them than Abbott.

Measuring a Government of on bills passed is like rating a footballer on number of possessions. Dean Terlich averages more possessions that Christian Salem so he must be a better footballer type logic.

let see your in your 30's, you say, so you were not alive then during the billy reign, McMahon or Sneddon. Yet you think you can comment with some expertise on them?

the rabbott is the worst I can remember by far... nothing more than saboteur.

Edited September 17, 2015 by dee-luded

[Wrecker45 3,378]

let see your in your 30's, you say, so you were not alive then during the billy reign, McMahon or Sneddon. Yet you think you can comment with some expertise on them?

the rabbott is the worst I can remember by far... nothing more than saboteur.

Ok. Using your logic you haven't been around since temperature records began so you can stop commenting (alarming) about global warming.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

let see your in your 30's, you say, so you were not alive then during the billy reign, McMahon or Sneddon. Yet you think you can comment with some expertise on them?

the rabbott is the worst I can remember by far... nothing more than saboteur.

Yeah those history professors and philosophical doctorates don't know anything about ancient Greece because they weren't actually there.

Seriously man, stop smoking whatever you're on.

[nutbean 8,838]

Haha..the first few pages of this thread make for interesting reading.

Not interesting...freakin hysterical ! I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. It doesn't get much better than Ben Hur asking a poster to PM him so they can arrange fisty-cuffs....

[dee-luded 2,959]

Ok. Using your logic you haven't been around since temperature records began so you can stop commenting (alarming) about global warming.

wrecka, I've been taking notice of the weather, the pea soup fogs that we once got in the suburbs, & the jack frosts we got a few times a year, watched them all disappear from the suburbs late 60's -early 70's...

took mental note that we went from Having to light a fire every morning to warm the house to get the icy chill out of the inside air. nowadays I've moved away from Melbourne as its too hot in the night time to sleep well. I prefer it cooler for sleeping well.

.... so yes I take notice of detail, regarding things I'm interested in, like nature, & I used to do this with Footy as well. and I study & research things of interest. Political Party's not being one of them, but our former culture & lifestyle, & old values are.

using your logic, when someone moves in to a new house/suburb, & they've noticed a person standing outside in the streets darkness & shadows, with a cigarette, over a couple of days, then the new resident should call the cops.... because that mystery figure must be up to no good.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Yeah those history professors and philosophical doctorates don't know anything about ancient Greece because they weren't actually there.

Seriously man, stop smoking whatever you're on.

your comparing wrecka to a professor of liberal party history... well I wouldn't have guessed that one choke... you must be a blue ribbon philosopher of the right wing kind then?

[P-man 13,366]

Not interesting...freakin hysterical ! I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. It doesn't get much better than Ben Hur asking a poster to PM him so they can arrange fisty-cuffs....

Both Benjamin and myself are more about peace and love these days.

Fun times though

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

your comparing wrecka to a professor of liberal party history... well I wouldn't have guessed that one choke... you must be a blue ribbon philosopher of the right wing kind then?

No, I'm pointing out the fallacy of your argument that "you have to have been alive through something to be an expert".

Also not everyone who disagrees with you is automatically right wing. Especially since I didn't actually disagree with you on any political point, just your incoherent logic when trying to put down Wrecker.

[hardtack 10,426]

[Wrecker45 3,378]

A sign held up behind him is all they have?

[dee-luded 2,959]

No, I'm pointing out the fallacy of your argument that "you have to have been alive through something to be an expert".

Also not everyone who disagrees with you is automatically right wing. Especially since I didn't actually disagree with you on any political point, just your incoherent logic when trying to put down Wrecker.

who said expert choke, I was referring to having experienced it, & more accuracy from the time, having lived it.. I assume you weren't about then either, from your disappointment expressed.

[dee-luded 2,959]

apart from the obvious disappointments in this picture, those front, & largely centre, is having an aboriginal parliamentarian representing this garbage.. I am really disappointed in him.