Hey - I probably chose my words badly - but by "Neeld-haters" I wasn't talking about hating the man personally, I was implying that I never really hated his coaching or style like a lot of others here on Demonland. Perhaps I should have hated it more - look where it has led us!!

But I really agree with Heart Beats True from above. Neeld was given a direct mandate by Schwab and the Board to come in and be very tough, with no compromise, and to introduce a game plan based on defence. But as in most things in life, it is not what your task is, it is how you operate, and Neeld's manner seems to deflated players en masse rather than inspire them.

Doesn't mean Neeld was necessarily wrong. Might be the players who needed the kick up the backside. Nevertheless, what's done is done. My hope is that the Neeld toughness provides some residual benefit so the next coach, whether it's Craig or not, is building on what Neeld put in place and not tearing it down and starting over. I don't think any of us can stomach a rebuild of a rebuild of a rebuild.

Clearly Cameron Schwab made a number of calls that were damaging to the club but to argue as does 'heart beats true' that the fault with Neeld's coaching lies with Schwab is nonsense.

Yes he was given a mandate but he was not given a mandate to overplay his hand as a critic who demeans his players which appears to be what happened from the get go. Remember the stories about the half time bake he gave Martin round one last year; the Collingwood-perspective ridicule he offered Watts at their first meeting, and the heavy-handed handling of leadership players.

Equally, he was supposed to give the group a clear map of how to play. The word is he failed in this comprehensively.

I supported Neeld because he said the right things publicly at the start in spelling out what the club needed. Privately, he bungled the implementation.

It is his fault, and not Garry Lyon's or Schwab's or McLardy's.

But as in most things in life, it is not what your task is, it is how you operate, and Neeld's manner seems to deflated players en masse rather than inspire them.

Yep. Seems remarkable that he could be so adamant he would not change anything.

I agree he was given the mandate to go hard and change the culture but his approach had to be more nuanced. Watts' quotes reinforce the importance having a different psychological approach to suit each player not a blanket sergeant hard ass approach, which as Watts says might work fro some but not others.

Instructive that in his very first post match presser Craig elects to bring Watts with him. Instructive also that in the next game Watts plays perhaps his most complete game for the club (and Craig pumped him up and noted that he had been treated harshly thus far in his career - reading between the lines this could have been a comment about Neeld?).

He has also pumped up Sylvia, brought Clisby in kept Fitzy in the side.

Feels he is ready to take the game on physically and understands he needs to keep up the intensity.

Watts done is done and cant be undone , only the moment you live in is influential by design.

Im prepared to leave watt was watt and move to today and here we see a player happy to play footy.

Thats a positive. I and some others here who have had the faith ( though severely tested at times ) always thought it was nearly always going to be about how he (JW) perceived his place in things. Once he was not only comfortable with that but could see he was more than capable to take the potential of what lay ahead full on and not blink, then and only then , he would perform to his belief and our expectations.

No point reliving past pain

we move on

Yep. Seems remarkable that he could be so adamant he would not change anything.

Thats cause hes a dumass.

Also shows how stubborn he is thinking that what he did was right and there would be no reason to change it if he had his time over again.

Watts could be about to explode and impose himself on games week to week.. I'll be a happy camper if so..

I'll record Foxtel on Sunday while I'm at the game. I always thought the side was divided by the likes and don't likes.

The problem was that Neeld didn't have enough players who liked his style to buy in. Leaving half the side hamstrung by a game style that didn't allow them to attack.

As Trenners said we were concentrating on defensive mindset and not attacking at all. Just chasing tail all the time.

The game against the doggies showed we still haven't lost our ability to attack. Let's also hope we haven't lost that defensive mindset to use when needed.

Slightly off track, but when all are fit. How do you line up these in attack? Hogan, Dawes, Howe, Watts, Clark, Fitzpatrick, Gawn, Blease, Sylvia.

Edited July 5, 201312 yr by Chippy

Transcript from the snippet they showed:

Sheahan: "When Mark Neeld got the chop, a) were you surprised and b) what was your other emotion, was it relief, sadness or what?

Watts: "I guess with the pressure that was building up, it probably wasn't a huge surprise. I think Mark came in and did an amazing job with the boys, and I think he came in with his philosophy of going pretty hard with us, and I think that works for some people and probably doesn't for others.."

S: "Did it work for Jack Watts?"

W: "I think it worked in a certain way for me, I guess with my training and those standards and that kind of thing. Probably at an emotional level I found it a bit hard."

S: "Were you pleased the change came?"

W: "I wouldn't say I was pleased, but I think, we probably needed something different, that's what I'd say."

S: "Is your relationship with Craigy different?"

W: "I would say it's different, yeah. It's a different relationship. I guess with Craigy already being at the club, so when Neeldy came in, went pretty hard, Craigy was sort of that person for me to go and speak to and sort of help me through it."

S: "He's more positive."

W: "I don't know, would you say he's more positive? He's probably, for me personally, more personable. Different blokes would probably say they got along better with Neeldy cause they had that relationship with him, compared to Craigy who they probably thought was a crazy old man who was yelling orders from the sideline, but I sort of got to know him pretty well early."

Craig has always earned a lot of respect from young players.. works well with them.. has an understanding.. Neeld was from a different planet,,, Not a people manager ... not possessed with much of a personality... Similar to that "wet fish", arrogant Buckley.. Probably as a result of spending some time with him at the Filth..Just saying..

Edited July 5, 201312 yr by [email protected]

HF: howe dawes watts

F: hogan clark blease

howe watts and blease are all capable of chasing but it will be vital the mids help lock the ball in with such a tall setup

I'll record Foxtel on Sunday while I'm at the game. I always thought the side was divided by the likes and don't likes.

The problem was that Neeld didn't have enough players who liked his style to buy in. Leaving half the side hamstrung by a game style that didn't allow them to attack.

As Trenners said we were concentrating on defensive mindset and not attacking at all. Just chasing tail all the time.

The game against the doggies showed we still haven't lost our ability to attack. Let's also hope we haven't lost that defensive mindset to use when needed.

Slightly off track, but when all are fit. How do you line up these in attack? Hogan, Dawes, Howe, Watts, Clark, Fitzpatrick, Gawn, Blease, Sylvia.

give me chance to coach them and I will try to fit them in

reality says injury will give them all an opputunity

I'll record Foxtel on Sunday while I'm at the game. I always thought the side was divided by the likes and don't likes.

The problem was that Neeld didn't have enough players who liked his style to buy in. Leaving half the side hamstrung by a game style that didn't allow them to attack.

As Trenners said we were concentrating on defensive mindset and not attacking at all. Just chasing tail all the time.

The game against the doggies showed we still haven't lost our ability to attack. Let's also hope we haven't lost that defensive mindset to use when needed.

Slightly off track, but when all are fit. How do you line up these in attack? Hogan, Dawes, Howe, Watts, Clark, Fitzpatrick, Gawn, Blease, Sylvia.

With a couple of additional capable midfielders... Rate it highly.. We are beginning a new era .. stick with the Dees..

It's quite possible Neeld seemed like the "good cop" at Collingwood because he worked under "bad cop" Mick Malthouse.

I'd be offering Jack a four year deal. $450,000 a year for a guy who is about to enter his prime.

Edited July 5, 201312 yr by AdamFarr

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2013-07-05/jack-watts-interview-with-mike-sheahan-preview

I'd be offering Jack a four year deal. $450,000 a year for a guy who is about to enter his prime.

Need a performance/incentive based contract. Dont give him money for nothing, reward him for top 5/10 B&F finishes etc.

Without wanting to brag this basically confirms what I was told and reported to a few people a month or two ago. Neeld came in and went so hard he made several players cry. Players had trouble working out what he wanted and several players were headed for the door.

Moloney got the arse because he didn't buy into Neeld not defensive efforts.

Neeld told Rawlings off for trying to give coaching advice and the players all confided in and found support from Craig.

nice to know it was all accurate.

There was strong concerns among many quarters about Neelds coaching style, aggressive bakes, questionable communication and views on selection.

Without wanting to brag this basically confirms what I was told and reported to a few people a month or two ago. Neeld came in and went so hard he made several players cry. Players had trouble working out what he wanted and several players were headed for the door.

Moloney got the arse because he didn't buy into Neeld not defensive efforts.

Neeld told Rawlings off for trying to give coaching advice and the players all confided in and found support from Craig.

nice to know it was all accurate.

Without disagreeing with anything you say, can we all just drop it? In actual fact, could the mods ban the name "mark neeld"?

It's been done to death, we all know it was a horrible 18 months, we went backwards and lost all but 5 games. I would really prefer we focused on the future and the opportunity that brings.

Clearly Cameron Schwab made a number of calls that were damaging to the club but to argue as does 'heart beats true' that the fault with Neeld's coaching lies with Schwab is nonsense.

Yes he was given a mandate but he was not given a mandate to overplay his hand as a critic who demeans his players which appears to be what happened from the get go. Remember the stories about the half time bake he gave Martin round one last year; the Collingwood-perspective ridicule he offered Watts at their first meeting, and the heavy-handed handling of leadership players.

Equally, he was supposed to give the group a clear map of how to play. The word is he failed in this comprehensively.

I supported Neeld because he said the right things publicly at the start in spelling out what the club needed. Privately, he bungled the implementation.

It is his fault, and not Garry Lyon's or Schwab's or McLardy's.

In my view it was a bad mix. I believe all three guys share some of the blame. That is Don, CS and Neeld. McLardy increasingly came across as a reactive demon supporter rather than clear headed thinker, CS seemed to be kingdom building and he would have had to have been a saint not to hold a grudge against those who nearly cost him his job, and Neeld.... Well what can you say, his master plan couldn't survive contact with the enemy. Between them too much punishment of the playing group and not enough selling the vision.

HF: howe dawes watts

F: hogan clark blease

howe watts and blease are all capable of chasing but it will be vital the mids help lock the ball in with such a tall setup

In my view even with the help of the mids it is still too tall to hold the ball in mate. You would also have the problem of these guys leading into eachothers space and flying against eachother, it would be really tough to make that unit function effectively. It would probably help if Clark could ruck, but the pounding his foot would cop in the harder centre areas at central bounces would be a huge risk.

Let's be honest, the players hated Neeld.

Alot of people have forgotten that Watts played his best footy under Neeld in 2012.

For a #1 pick who has been playing for 5 years he hasn't exactly shown alot to justify $450k as some people have people have been wanting to offer him.

He is playing better than at the start of the season but got to show alot more to save his bacon.

Here's the preview for those who haven't seen it.

Very interesting.

Edited July 5, 201312 yr by Chook

Jack hated his guts.