I have a theory that our culture slide started when we lost Woey and the start of a breakdown in list management way back in early 2000's when we had just payed off in the GF. No quality lsit management and maintenence/leadership developemnt then by ND and team and the rest is history compounded by awful decisions from 2007.

We lost part of our soul when Woey didn't stay along with the halcyon early years of ND.

Thoughts?

Disagree

Culture went downhill when it was ok to lose under Bailey

Bailey who?

I think you can draw something from it in as much as we had some troubles with players being awarded substantial contracts while in what turned out to be the best form of their career. Yze, Johnstone, Woewodin, White, all good players but each were on very very good contracts, as I understand it. We probably shouldn't have lost Woewodin - it's not sensible that a club which was not top four and did not have any absolute premium players was at the same time experiencing salary cap pressure.

Meanwhile, anyone know how Woey is going as a coach? Last I heard it was all very positive, over at East Fremantle (East right?) and now Brisbane. And we all know we need a good midfield coach who will support a disciplined culture. And we all know, whatever is going on in midfield at the moment, well, it's not good.

It started in the late Daniher years I think. Too many senior players leaving/retiring and leaving a big gap thanks to Danihers 'top up' policy and poor drafting. That left a huge hole in experience and leadership which we did nothing to fill during Bailey's tenure. The youth policy just made it worse and poor coaching staff contributed... That's my take of how we got to here anyway.

Nup the day schwab and bailey forced Junior to retire.

Nup the day schwab and bailey forced Junior to retire.

I'm pretty it was more so Connelly and Schwab. Bailey was actually pretty happy to give him a one year contract but those other two flogs and the board overruled bailey.

Disagree

Culture went downhill when it was ok to lose under Bailey

spot on

I'm more concerned with when it will turn around

I'm more concerned with when it will turn around

Same, I couldn't care when it all started, let's just concentrate on fixing this mess up!

Nup the day schwab and bailey forced Junior to retire.

Indeed.

For me it started when we lost Scott Thompson. We did alright after that for a few years - in 2006 we finished higher than any other Victorian club. But replacing Daniher with Bailey, then sacking Jnr while hiring recruiters clearly on drugs made a small decline turn into a disaster.

culture started going downhill under Neal Daniher

Disagree

Culture went downhill when it was ok to lose under Bailey

Indeed.

For me it started when we lost Scott Thompson. We did alright after that for a few years - in 2006 we finished higher than any other Victorian club. But replacing Daniher with Bailey, then sacking Jnr while hiring recruiters clearly on drugs made a small decline turn into a disaster.

Spot on. It didn't need to come to this. Clubs like the Dogs, Eagles and Pies have had periods when they have been down after squeezing every drop from a list. Instead, we listened to flogs like Mark Maclure who told us we needed to tear the place to pieces as it was a 'basketcase'. BS. Sure, there needed to be some major renovations but did we have to tear the entire house down plus foundations?

When Norm was sacked.

Salary cap breach related draft punishments. Compounded by the defection of Scott Thompson, followed by the 2003 draft (when we were genuinely bottoming out after our last ownership assault) being particularly weak, and shone terrible draft selections along the way. As a result we have not had a core group of players and successive boards and football departments have never been able to make it work, despite their best efforts.

It all comes back to this - three core of the team was never there to provide good culture, or to offer onfield leadership. We have been plugging holes and trying to balance the list since then.

Ann amazing list manager/recruiter may have been able to salvage us along the ride, array the ship and make us competitive, but for the last 10 years under successive boards and football departments our list has always been unbalanced.

Perfect storm of poor decision making.

Perfect storm of poor decision making.

Spot on description I reckon. A thousand things have gone wrong and any number of opportunities for us to at least pull out selves up and float have been missed.

I agree. Losing Woewodin and Powell at the end of 2002 was a big mistake IMO - the cultural rot started to kick in then.

I have a theory that our culture slide started when we lost Woey and the start of a breakdown in list management way back in early 2000's when we had just payed off in the GF. No quality lsit management and maintenence/leadership developemnt then by ND and team and the rest is history compounded by awful decisions from 2007.

We lost part of our soul when Woey didn't stay along with the halcyon early years of ND.

Thoughts?

I remember reading in the early 2000 that ever second per season ND would go easy on the players and that was the reason why we were so up and down.

I don't know if this was to get better draft picks and help the club in the future or not but if this was happening at the club then that would be the reason why our coulter is so crap now.

If ND was teaching our future leaders that we will go easy on you every second year then now wonder 10 years later none of out players are trying on the field.

I Blame Neal Danaher for this.

im 28 and we have never looked like doing anything as long as my football memory serves me, making the grand final in 2000 was a fluke as we played the best/biggest upset game of my football life, should of been carl v ess granny, culture must of been shot after the 64 grand final.........

The main problem I have noticed over the 15 odd years with our culture is that we have been in the 'all we need to do' mindset. By this, I mean that supporters and the club to an extent get into the mindset that all we needed to do was (not in chronological order):

1) Take Joe Gutnick's money

2) Bottom out in 2008 and 2009 to get draft picks

3) Move from the Junction Oval

4) Sack the coach (Dean Bailey)

5) Recruit Jeff White from Freo.

These strategies were simplistic and short sighted. It was never asked 'What then?' after each of these steps were taken (in all honesty, there was a little forward planning when Neeld was bought in but we all know how that turned out). These things were always viewed as an end, not a means.

Other causes:

a) No one has been prepared to dig in like an Ian Dicker at Hawthorn or a Frank Costa at Geelong and tried to build a football club from top to bottom. This includes building social clubs and facilities, stability in coaching, developing your own players and sticking fat when times are tough. It includes stuff like Dee-luded has said about a social club but includes so much more. Jimmah tried to do this in some areas and while some of his vision was flawed, there were other areas where he was spot on. He however was cut down before he could take it any further.

b)Besides harebrain schemes like China and the outlier of Debt Demolition, we have been too much of a follower and not enough of a leader since I have been a supporter (24 years). In short, we are reactive. People like Caro, Barrett, Maclure, Robbo and company must rub their hands together because as soon as they tell us what we need to do, we will do it. We need to stop listening to the people whose agenda is to raise TV ratings and sell newspapers. That's not to say we don't seek advice. Just make sure it's advice from people who have the best interests of MFC in mind.

Donald Duffy for mine. Might have been a great man but his reign was the start of all things crap for MFC

Whoey?

2001 draft.

The biggest mistake this football club could ever make.

2001 draft.

The biggest mistake this football club could ever make.

Lol.... had a quick look to remind myself of the horrors.

Luke Molan at 9, Steven Armstrong at 25, Aaron Rogers at 26, Brad Miller at 55. All of those were fails (Molan and Rogers of epic proportions) except for Miller who was just a pass.

However we did pick up Jamar in the rookie draft which meant it wasn't a totally muffed draft period.

As I said earlier, I think it was pretty much the whole 2000's drafting and trading which crippled us, not just 2001 or any other year - not one star player picked up and way too many duds.