lol... Well im ok not read your crap as well... Block me [censored]

Accept my apologies. I wasn't aware I was dealing with MR.

One would argue that Chip will be a Dee in 2015 and beyond if you believe the MFC post where he claims "I love this place' and his 'veins bleed red and blue': http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2013-10-02/frawley-still-a-true-demon-in-dark-times and http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2013-10-09/players-need-to-drive-change-frawley It is only Demonlanders such as CD which seem committed to turning his departure intpo a self-filfilling prophesy.

Wow.......a little sensitive aren't we? How is that nervous tic?

Me stating "we can't be guaranteed Chip will be around in 2015 "is hardly going to make it happen, but thanks for the compliment. We have all heard the reports and you can bet almost every club will be sniffing around him next year with a bucket full of money and /or a promise of finals. In case you haven't noticed this sometimes works! Buddy still loves Hawthorn you know, and where are Sylvia, Maloney, Rivers, Scully etc., etc., now? I am very hopeful Chip will stay but no-one (even him I suspect) knows that for sure. My post was about keeping Tom M because if we don't and Chip does get lured away our strength becomes a weakness. It's about forward (or backline) planning.

But, just in case you are right and I do have the power you suggest - I reckon we can get Shiel for pick 108

I didn't know Shiel was dating Chocco Williams daughter.

He wouldn't be a free agent next year. He would be out of contract and could walk into the uncertainty of the draft but he wouldn't be a free agent.

But you are right that if they think he might leave in 12 months, they might be better off trading him now while they have the fallback of the year remaining on his contract.

If a player is out of contract & doesn't re-sign, doesn't that then render them a free agent upon list lodgement? who could then transfer to club of choice as a free agent?

lol... Well im ok not read your crap as well... Block me ya sack muncher

Whats your reason for not wanting to trade pick 2 for Shiel.

I'll avoid the personal cheap shots from your previous couple of posts and stick to the footy.

Firstly, I pointed out that when looking at the trade from purely a balance point of view that it looks like Adelaide might come out winners but this thinking is why so many trades drag on and on and on and are rarely completed. There are too many egos involved in the trade business who are driven by trying to rip off the other club and avoid being ripped off themselves. In the hypothetical I put forward, the needs of all teams were addressed. Forget analysing the evenness of the trade and look at who wins. I put it to you that everyone wins. Adelaide get the much sought after pick two but in so doing have to give up two quality players. Vince is a former club best and fairest with four solid seasons of footy left in him and Otten is a former runner-up in the NAB Rising Star who is a highly respected clubman. Melbourne get a young star midfielder, an experienced B/B+ midfielder and another mid with potential who deserves greater opportunities. GWS is well stocked for mids and potential tall forwards but need bigger bodies and key defenders. McDonald gives them their tall defender and Otten gives them another defender with a big body. The balance of each club's list improves. This is what all trades should be about. GWS shouldn't feel like they've been ripped off. Most here will feel like McDonald's importance to us structurally is actually more important than Shiel to GWS given the high number of elite young midfield types they boast. Adelaide would be stoked with the opportunity to draft one of their potential local stars Aish or Scharenberg and we get the injection of midfield talent we desperately crave. It's win win win. If you're worried about the balance or the fairness then later draft picks can be introduced. For example Adelaide could throw picks 42 and 60 our way in exchange for 54 and 72. Or they cold trade Henderson in a separate deal for a pick in the 20's and then use that to keep us satisfied.

Anyway, this is a thread about Shiel and for me he is central to this trade. If we get Shiel onto our list we're winners. GWS aren't interested in picks. My gut instinct is (reading between the lines) that he might be open to the idea of coming back to Melbourne and possibly the MFC. If that's the case and the hard work is done convincing him to move, the next step will be satisfying GWS.

Its what this thread is all about GV and I applaud your efforts! More scenarios to discuss would also be welcome..from one and all!

Whats your reason for not wanting to trade pick 2 for Shiel.

Do Not Read This Post BEN HER

I've already stated above, that IMO! Aish will overtake him.... I don't mind if we trade pick two for him, but I would like something to sweeten the deal...

Aish will not overtake.

Unlike Aish, Shiel is a damaging explosive midfielder that's has a mix of toughness and speed to boot.

Aish is smooth who gets through traffic blah blah blah... heard it all before.

Shiel for pick 2 is an absolute no brainer.

The issue is whether we can convince GWS to do the deal.

Aish will not overtake.

Unlike Aish, Shiel is a damaging explosive midfielder that's has a mix of toughness and speed to boot.

Aish is smooth who gets through traffic blah blah blah... heard it all before.

Yes, totally different players! Shiel has more grunt, Aish more flair but more an outside player (like Kelly). Shiel is ready made and only 2 years in the system. Simples

If a player is out of contract & doesn't re-sign, doesn't that then render them a free agent upon list lodgement? who could then transfer to club of choice as a free agent?

Nope. There are specific criteria to fulfill to qualify as a free agent. If a player chooses to leave a club before they have met them then the only option open to them is the draft. If Shiel were to walk out on GWS after next season he would need to go back into the draft to find a new club. He might be able to manipulate things to a limited extent by placing a high price on himself in the PSD, but even then chances are he would be snatched up by a club with an early pick and room to move in the salary cap (like us).

Personally, I wouldn't mind getting Shiel for pick 2. I'd say it's about right value-wise, although very understandable why GWS want to keep him. Asking for more than pick 2 is like the Bombers trying to get more than pick 22 for Crameri. The price is about right, asking more is just being greedy and won't get them far int he long run. Anyway, the point is that we aren't going to get a better player than him for that price. I highly doubt Dangerfield is going to be offered up for instance. He is a known quantity who meets our requirements exactly, so I say get him if we can. If not, Aish looks to be a pretty damn good footballer with a very nice kick on him, and the word is that there are another couple of lads who are of similar quality from Victoria. We won't suffer too badly if we hang on to the pick for one of those guys.

Nice reminder...lol... He looks good against kids...lol... I'm not opposed to have him, i just wont the sweetener to go our way... I don't think he's that great.... Aish will over take him in three years.... Maybe put up a video of Aish, so we can compare the two? All the good stuff in that video was of Shiel as a junior...

Lol! Are you for real? There was heaps of "good stuff" from u12's right through to seniors for GWS. He's a hard at it, skillful and quick gun. This guy would have probably gone top 5 in his year and now has two good years development in the big time. Worth pick 2 any day. IMO he'd be our best mid by far if we got him. Aish may also be a gun, but most of his work is outside and he's stick thin.

Hmmmmm.....

Sheil = hard, skilled, proven, contested gun ready to go.

Aish = thin, outside, skilled, AFL unproven interstater who will maybe overtake Sheil in 3 yrs.

Know which one I'd want. Lol!

Edited October 13, 201311 yr by Moonshadow

I don't know why people even mention Dangerfield. There isn't a player or pick in the competition that would interest Adelaide. They wouldn't trade him for Ablett, Selwood, pick one, or anyone else you want to mention.

I don't know why people even mention Dangerfield. There isn't a player or pick in the competition that would interest Adelaide. They wouldn't trade him for Ablett, Selwood, pick one, or anyone else you want to mention.

That's why we mention him. Just because there's no way in hell he's ever going to appear in our colours doesn't mean we can't dream.

That's why we mention him. Just because there's no way in hell he's ever going to appear in our colours doesn't mean we can't dream.

You have every right to waste your time.

You have every right to waste your time.

We're chatting on a message board about a game. We're all wasting our time.

Rubbish. We could have an A grade midfield and he still wouldn't know what to do with it.

Pedersen can play as a third tall if we need him. Dunn or Grimes can also play that role on certain types of players but it's a fair point. We would have to draft in a tall back with a later pick for extra cover, but we're not too bad if a deal like that happened.

Pederson could play third tall alright, but for Casey not for Melbourne, he's simply not up to AFL standard

Not strong enough, or skilled enough, or smart enough; probably a similar player to Sellar.

Pederson could play third tall alright, but for Casey not for Melbourne, he's simply not up to AFL standard

Not strong enough, or skilled enough, or smart enough; probably a similar player to Sellar.

Has some skill but doesn't hit the contest, a very lazy footballer who wants it all on his terms.

Has some skill but doesn't hit the contest, a very lazy footballer who wants it all on his terms.

You've summed him up perfectly.

Yes, totally different players! Shiel has more grunt, Aish more flair but more an outside player (like Kelly). Shiel is ready made and only 2 years in the system. Simples

& its the real quality grunt players we keep missing out on, & we always seem to go for the sleek with flair types who then take us nowhere, & we've become addicted to the sleek.

the Hawks, Lions, Bombers built their modern reputations ontop of grunt players, & now Swans & Cats do. And they all Win.

Nope. There are specific criteria to fulfill to qualify as a free agent. If a player chooses to leave a club before they have met them then the only option open to them is the draft. If Shiel were to walk out on GWS after next season he would need to go back into the draft to find a new club. He might be able to manipulate things to a limited extent by placing a high price on himself in the PSD, but even then chances are he would be snatched up by a club with an early pick and room to move in the salary cap (like us).

Personally, I wouldn't mind getting Shiel for pick 2. I'd say it's about right value-wise, although very understandable why GWS want to keep him. Asking for more than pick 2 is like the Bombers trying to get more than pick 22 for Crameri. The price is about right, asking more is just being greedy and won't get them far int he long run. Anyway, the point is that we aren't going to get a better player than him for that price. I highly doubt Dangerfield is going to be offered up for instance. He is a known quantity who meets our requirements exactly, so I say get him if we can. If not, Aish looks to be a pretty damn good footballer with a very nice kick on him, and the word is that there are another couple of lads who are of similar quality from Victoria. We won't suffer too badly if we hang on to the pick for one of those guys.

re laws of the game, I don't even bother trying to read them such is my distrust in the written word & law. that effects my comprehension of such writings, as I can see so many potential meanings to things written, it all becomes just too hard.... so now I don't even bother trying to read them.

.... in AFL by the time you get used to a rule/law they change it, either the written law or via interpretation.

# I've been a fan of Shiel since I saw him the first time. I've seen him a few times now & he is the sort of driver we need.

Lets just get Shiel.... if we can't arrange Shiel, then use the pick in the draft ourselves & use our 2ndRnd picks for mature players.

alternatively, would you swap Howe for Shiel, & trade P2 for Swallow? Or Chip, for Shiel & P9

Let's just say i'm underwhelmed.

Because you're across all the operations of the FD, and Mahoney's role in them?

It's a bit like judging a coach on his post-match interviews.

alternatively, would you swap Howe for Shiel, & trade P2 for Swallow? Or Chip, for Shiel & P9

I love what Howe brings to the table. His awareness in the air is something special, but to be honest I wouldn't be devastated if we traded him for something good. He has currency, and as we've often been told, you need to give up something to get something. It's absolutely nothing against him but I don't think his loss would really hurt us that much. As a forward we can cover it and he's just not that great in the middle. Offload him for a quality mid and we'd be ahead of the game.

Trade Howe? FFS. You blokes have totally lost the plot.

Howe for me is a definite required player. What roos will do with his skill set will be amazing.

Shiel we must get. A friend mentioned pick 2 AND Jamar for Shiel. I'd do it in a heart beat.