Seriously mate, take some time to comprehend what I'm saying...

I like Magner and Couch, but they would not be regular 22 in a top midfield. I want a top midfield.

You've been talking about developing rookies, not me. I see rookies as a bonus or calculated gamble, the draft/trade period is where you usually get champions.

Magner was better than most of our best 22 last year and will be in our best 22 next year.

The only reason he wasnt elevated was because we could leave him on for one more year, but couldnt with Evans (another rookie).

You cant draft an entire top midfield. We dont have anyone to draft for a single top midfield player from another team apart from Watts. Our previous midfield draft picks, like Toumpas and Hogan, are a couple of years away from being up to scratch.

If they arent up to your standards then bad luck - you need to be realistic, they are all we have got for next year.

Magner was better than most of our best 22 last year and will be in our best 22 next year.

The only reason he wasnt elevated was because we could leave him on for one more year, but couldnt with Evans (another rookie).

You cant draft an entire top midfield. We dont have anyone to draft for a single top midfield player from another team apart from Watts. Our previous midfield draft picks, like Toumpas and Hogan, are a couple of years away from being up to scratch.

If they arent up to your standards then bad luck - you need to be realistic, they are all we have got for next year.

So tell me, of the 5 midfielders we can play, how many of these will Magner be ahead of next year?

N.Jones? No.

Viney? No.

Toumpas? Probably not by next year, so no.

Sylvia? No.

Trengove? No.

Grimes? No.

McKenzie? Maybe.

M.Jones? Maybe, but probably not by next year.

We'll probably get two first round picks, both will be mids, will Magner be ahead of them? No.

We'll probably trade/free agent 1-2 gun mids, will Magner be ahead of them? No.

So, even if the maybes turn into yes he's still at least 9th in line for the 5 spots available.

Light. Tunnel. The End.

*If you read this post again in 2016 and Hogan has turned into a dud/ has had 4 knee recos/ [censored] off back home/ has been found taking crack, please don't hold this against me.

Light. Tunnel. The End.

*If you read this post again in 2016 and Hogan has turned into a dud/ has had 4 knee recos/ [censored] off back home/ has been found taking crack, please don't hold this against me.

We love a scapegoat here at Demonland so, yes, I'm holding it against you by 2014 June at the latest.

Light. Tunnel. The End.

*If you read this post again in 2016 and Hogan has turned into a dud/ has had 4 knee recos/ [censored] off back home/ has been found taking crack, please don't hold this against me.

It was all your Fault Jaded......

It was all your Fault Jaded......

Bloody oath. I blame you Jaded, you half wit.

Ah, that's better.

So tell me, of the 5 midfielders we can play, how many of these will Magner be ahead of next year?

N.Jones? No.

Viney? No.

Toumpas? Probably not by next year, so no.

Sylvia? No.

Trengove? No.

Grimes? No.

McKenzie? Maybe.

M.Jones? Maybe, but probably not by next year.

We'll probably get two first round picks, both will be mids, will Magner be ahead of them? No.

We'll probably trade/free agent 1-2 gun mids, will Magner be ahead of them? No.

So, even if the maybes turn into yes he's still at least 9th in line for the 5 spots available.

N.Jones? No.

Viney? No. Last year Magner averaged more tackles, more effective disposals than Viney has this year

Toumpas? Yes. Toumpas has 2 more years till he gets in form. Skills wise and physically. Magner has played more football at VFL and AFL + same hight but has 10kg more on him)

Sylvia? No. Last year Magner averaged more tackles and clearances.

Trengove? No. Last year Magner averaged more contested possessions and clearances

Grimes? Ill let you make youre ming up: last year Magner averaged more tackles, contested possessions, and clearances

McKenzie? No.

M.Jones? Yes.

We'll probably get two first round picks, both will be mids, will Magner be ahead of them? Yes - like Toumpas, it will be 2 years.

We'll probably trade/free agent 1-2 gun mids, will Magner be ahead of them? Who are you going to trade or what picks?

Light. Tunnel. The End.

*If you read this post again in 2016 and Hogan has turned into a dud/ has had 4 knee recos/ [censored] off back home/ has been found taking crack, please don't hold this against me.

Is that a smile? 10 Year Alastair Lynch contract coming up . . .

Light at the end of the tunnel:

- Jesse Hogan

- Rory Taggert

- The back of Jordie Mckenzie

We are one of the best teams for effectiveness inside 50.

We are one of the worst teams for getting it inside 50.

There may be a light, but it's a bloody long tunnel...

That just says to me that teams are so shocked when Melbourne goes forward that the Dees score because the opposition is caught off guard.

Seriously though, similar stats lingered around last year, too.

I think we have the players and talent up forward to cause trouble when it goes down there, even without Clark.

But damn the team is awful at getting it there.

Positivity! Jesus I love positivity! It's just that I have seen nothing to make me positive. OR, likely to be positive in the foreseeable future. We are going backwards FFS. I'll keep fantasy to my sex life.

And Moon, if you're not careful I'll post that picture again.

You're all tip and no iceberg, BBO.

I just had a thought. Amongst all of your bravado and chest beating, a picture of a 4' 11", balding, wafer thin, sad old man sprang to mind (fully clothed, thankfully). Is that the real you, Bitter Butt?

Delete the optimistic part from your name. It's just not you.

I'm happy to read the thread but also point out where there are flaws in the logic. If you don't like it to bad, it's what a forum is all about.

There is a glimmer of light at the moment but it's certainly got nothing to do with the scoreboard, that's just coach speak when you don't want to tell anyone what you are really thinking.

It starts with Jackson tomorrow and the next 6 months are going to make for interesting times.

On ground Big Max is a positive, I hope he can stay fit because after just 6 games he looks a real player.

Hogan is a positive as is Viney when fit.

I have hopes that Kent and Taggert will add another candle by the end of the year.

Other than that there is not a lot of positive news, we are pretty bad plain and simple.

Happy to agree regards that's what forums are about, just getting tired of well meaning threads being hijacked by posters who continually push a certain agenda.

Forums can also be a great place to try to share some optimism as well. It's not as if there isn't any discussion on the ills of the club in umpteen other threads.

That said can't agree more re. Gawn,Kent and Taggert and hoping we see what they are capable of in the course of the year.

Truly intrigued at what may occur when Jackson arrives as I don't really have my head around what his brief is just yet, but surely interesting times ahead, just interested in how he approaches the footy department. We all seemed to think Schwab should never interfere in football dept. business but are hoping that Jackson will, personally will be ecstatic if he can sort out the board first, as I said interesting times ahead.

You're all tip and no iceberg, BBO.

I just had a thought. Amongst all of your bravado and chest beating, a picture of a 4' 11", balding, wafer thin, sad old man sprang to mind (fully clothed, thankfully). Is that the real you, Bitter Butt?

Delete the optimistic part from your name. It's just not you.

Much like The Simpsons Montgomery Burns.

So tell me, of the 5 midfielders we can play, how many of these will Magner be ahead of next year?

N.Jones? No.

Viney? No.

Toumpas? Probably not by next year, so no.

Sylvia? No.

Trengove? No.

Grimes? No.

McKenzie? Maybe.

M.Jones? Maybe, but probably not by next year.

We'll probably get two first round picks, both will be mids, will Magner be ahead of them? No.

We'll probably trade/free agent 1-2 gun mids, will Magner be ahead of them? No.

So, even if the maybes turn into yes he's still at least 9th in line for the 5 spots available.

I see what you're saying Stuie but these days we'll need far more than 5 midfielders to be a good side. Need at least 10 who can rotate through there each game.

I see what you're saying Stuie but these days we'll need far more than 5 midfielders to be a good side. Need at least 10 who can rotate through there each game.

I was more just talking starters. The point I was making was that I like Magner, gives his all, but in a good team he would be a depth player not always a starter. I would hope we would be stocking up on quality mids in the trade/draft period, and that would push guys like Magner, Couch, McKenzie etc back a bit, not because they don't try but because the standard of our midfield needs to come up.

I think in terms of cattle, we're not that far off. In terms of structures and footballing fundamentals, we're a mile off. We need AFL endeavour and work rate from our players. We're not getting it.

We need at least one A grade mid, while a second would be handy. But most of all, in the meantime, we need work rate. Work rate. Work rate. Fitness doesn't come into it when we can't man up or chase the opposition in the opening minutes of a football match.

I think if we get A grade midfield talent onto our list at year's end, get Frawley signed up on a long term contract and a coach that can extract work rate and implement viable structures, we're not as far off as it may appear.

Good thread. The first quarter against the lions was entertaining to watch - as the commentators noted. We hardly played any entertaining footy last year and if you count the last against GWS we strung 2 quarters in a row together where we moved the ball quickly, played on and were efficient up forward. Surely a positive.

We played with good energy in that fist quarter (and for much of the game to be honest) which for me is a positive as it indicates that perhaps a flame is flickering and that the last q against GWS wasn't just a panic induced aberration.

Yes they could have beaten us by more but they didn't so its silly to bang on as if it was a 10 goal loss. Easy to forget we missed some pretty gettable shots (eg Bail) and messed up some forward entries (eg Sylvia and Pederson). What's that saying about mothers and uncles?

I thought that given how easily they moved the ball from our defence through the middle for much of the last half I thought they did pretty well to still be in it half way through the last. They also didn't throw in the towel and played to the siren. Two more positives

Once inside 50 we were very efficient which has to be a positive.

Gawn, Howe at full forward and the goal from the boundary by Watts were all other positives form me.

We are likely to finish at least 14th on the ladder So we will have a top 3 pick at seasons end and may even get a priority pick (what beautiful irony that would be). Twisted positive, yes but we should be able to snag another good young mid in to help the Toump, Jones and Viney and who knows might be able to trade one in.

Good thread. The first quarter against the lions was entertaining to watch - as the commentators noted. We hardly played any entertaining footy last year and if you count the last against GWS we strung 2 quarters in a row together where we moved the ball quickly, played on and were efficient up forward. Surely a positive.

We played with good energy in that fist quarter (and for much of the game to be honest) which for me is a positive as it indicates that perhaps a flame is flickering and that the last q against GWS wasn't just a panic induced aberration.

Yes they could have beaten us by more but they didn't so its silly to bang on as if it was a 10 goal loss. Easy to forget we missed some pretty gettable shots (eg Bail) and messed up some forward entries (eg Sylvia and Pederson). What's that saying about mothers and uncles?

I thought that given how easily they moved the ball from our defence through the middle for much of the last half I thought they did pretty well to still be in it half way through the last. They also didn't throw in the towel and played to the siren. Two more positives

Once inside 50 we were very efficient which has to be a positive.

Gawn, Howe at full forward and the goal from the boundary by Watts were all other positives form me.

We are likely to finish at least 14th on the ladder So we will have a top 3 pick at seasons end and may even get a priority pick (what beautiful irony that would be). Twisted positive, yes but we should be able to snag another good young mid in to help the Toump, Jones and Viney and who knows might be able to trade one in.

Unfortunately, we were still as loose as gooses defensively in that first quarter. It was very much Dean Bailey type football from both sides. Unaccountable. It looked alright if one team had possession, but if they didn't have possession, both defences leaked goals in that first quarter.

If we get the right experienced coach, we can turn this around quickly.

The list is not bad at all.

You're all tip and no iceberg, BBO.

I just had a thought . Amongst all of your bravado and chest beating, a picture of a 4' 11", balding, wafer thin, sad old man sprang to mind (fully clothed, thankfully). Is that the real you, Bitter Butt?

Delete the optimistic part from your name. It's just not you.

Congrats on having a thought Moon. However, surely you could have found a better use for it than turning a bit of light hearted banter into a personal attack based on some fanciful vision.

Funnily enough though, I have been considering a name change because I can see no reason to be optimistic about the MFC for the foreseeable future.

If we get the right experienced coach, we can turn this around quickly.

The list is not bad at all.

Where???????Where the hell are we going to get an experienced coach from........And if he doesn't turn it around in three weeks you will be calling for him to be sacked........Geeezzz......

I'm happy to read the thread but also point out where there are flaws in the logic. If you don't like it to bad, it's what a forum is all about.

There is a glimmer of light at the moment but it's certainly got nothing to do with the scoreboard, that's just coach speak when you don't want to tell anyone what you are really thinking.

It starts with Jackson tomorrow and the next 6 months are going to make for interesting times.

On ground Big Max is a positive, I hope he can stay fit because after just 6 games he looks a real player.

Hogan is a positive as is Viney when fit.

I have hopes that Kent and Taggert will add another candle by the end of the year.

Other than that there is not a lot of positive news, we are pretty bad plain and simple.

Sounds like the bio of the cast from "The Shire".

All of us need to remember this:

the author is one J Bartel...

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/show-passion-but-give-kids-time-to-make-the-grade-20130501-2isp6.html

You're all tip and no iceberg, BBO.

You didn't hear that from me, did you?