On 03/05/2013 at 11:54, Benson said:

Not being a smart ass to your response, but there is so much more that occurs during that 6-7 days. The point I wanted to make was that AFL is a complicated sport, as are all professional sports. For a posters to say that it is not "complicated" is just ridiculous.

Benson - it's actually very 'simple' to a lot of these dudes.

You simply hire an 'experienced' coach to go into the sheds and yell at the players for a while, and then they go out and [censored] the other team (which incidentally is an elite sports team that has been trained to elite standards and is comprised entirely of elite players).

It's that easy.

  On 03/05/2013 at 22:48, Ron Burgundy said:

Unwatchable?!

I have watched as many Demons games as most of you. And one of the best quarters I have EVER watched occurred only two weeks ago.

If Demons supporters weren't so important and rare, I would really up the ante with some of you.

Fair dinkum. Get behind the club. Many of you are like Italy in WW2.

One of the best quarters you've watched came against the weakest team in the comp, playing away from home and after they have finally become exhausted?

You are setting the bar low, Ron.

I support the club. I support Neeld insofar as he is good for my club. I don't support him just 'cause he's there. The hard facts are that, despite massive increases in coaching resources, manpower, spending and training, we are playing lazy, stupid, dispirited football. It is a HARD fact. Not a cutesy impression. There are lots of reasons why and it is unreasonable to think that Neeld is not one of them. It is also unreasonable to see that he can fix it, given he has shown no such ability.

I'll be rapt if we get without 15 goals of Carlton. My expectations are that we will not be competitive. Neeld has helped build those expectations. I'm far more angry at the Board than I am at Neeld - 5 years of decision making form them has led us here. Neeld is just not up to it. Let him go, Ron.

  On 04/05/2013 at 00:26, timD said:

One of the best quarters you've watched came against the weakest team in the comp, playing away from home and after they have finally become exhausted?

You are setting the bar low, Ron.

I support the club. I support Neeld insofar as he is good for my club. I don't support him just 'cause he's there. The hard facts are that, despite massive increases in coaching resources, manpower, spending and training, we are playing lazy, stupid, dispirited football. It is a HARD fact. Not a cutesy impression. There are lots of reasons why and it is unreasonable to think that Neeld is not one of them. It is also unreasonable to see that he can fix it, given he has shown no such ability.

I'll be rapt if we get without 15 goals of Carlton. My expectations are that we will not be competitive. Neeld has helped build those expectations. I'm far more angry at the Board than I am at Neeld - 5 years of decision making form them has led us here. Neeld is just not up to it. Let him go, Ron.

I thought we were the weakest team in the comp.

At least that's what the past 66 pages would have us believe.

So....If what posters are saying.......If Neeld and our boys win this week.......All this crap (for the past66pages) goes away....Neeld and the players love each other.......The club will have turned around.....Neeld will be our saviour....and every body here will be gushing about all the players and the coach.......

Fair dinkum.........This is the worst thread I have seen and wont read the crap on here again.....

I actually believe that Neeld is establishing the foundations for a prosperous period for the MFC. He identified where our list was at, where our fitness was at, where our FD and program's were at, and where our culture and leadership was at. And he identified that ALL these areas were well below elite level and needed rapid change.

He has started to implement that change, and the rewards for this change will be evident later this season and in full bloom in 2014. But only if we hold the line and maintain faith in Neeld.

Go Demons

  On 03/05/2013 at 22:41, Ron Burgundy said:

So we shouldn't have picked Hogan?!

Dead set ...

'Ron' read the context and don't post this BS mate. The post was about the mix of KPP and Mids, no judgement was made on my part except for me not being convinced by the Dawes trade of our pick 20. It was in answer to an answer of another post.

The Hogan pick and Viney at pick 20+ were connected and in my opinion probably the smartest selections we have made probably in the history of the draft. So of course we should have picked Hogan.

  On 03/05/2013 at 15:33, Unleash Hell said:

So in summary the club should react out of fear and not good decisions?

The club should react out of fear of becoming irrelevant. Absolutely.

I wish this club was more fearful of failure, but sadly it seems accepting of it, as are some of our supporters.

  On 03/05/2013 at 12:49, dee-luded said:

the players worked very hard up in Brisbane plenty of mistakes but they worked their butts off. I didn't see any players being lazy in the replay. just untidy.

Were you there? I was. The work rate was terrible. No run, no pressure, dispirited and lacking in confidence.

  On 04/05/2013 at 00:26, timD said:

One of the best quarters you've watched came against the weakest team in the comp, playing away from home and after they have finally become exhausted?

You are setting the bar low, Ron.

I support the club. I support Neeld insofar as he is good for my club. I don't support him just 'cause he's there. The hard facts are that, despite massive increases in coaching resources, manpower, spending and training, we are playing lazy, stupid, dispirited football. It is a HARD fact. Not a cutesy impression. There are lots of reasons why and it is unreasonable to think that Neeld is not one of them. It is also unreasonable to see that he can fix it, given he has shown no such ability.

I'll be rapt if we get without 15 goals of Carlton. My expectations are that we will not be competitive. Neeld has helped build those expectations. I'm far more angry at the Board than I am at Neeld - 5 years of decision making form them has led us here. Neeld is just not up to it. Let him go, Ron.

And I'm the one setting a low bar?!

....

As an aside, GWS is a club participating in the most elite AFL competition in the land. They're hardly Pooraka under 9's.

Happy to stand corrected, but I don't think any other side has kicked 12.2 in a quarter against GWS this season.

So yep - I absolutely loved that quarter. In fact, I'll take that every week of the year, thanks.

I'm starting to think I'm in the minority here in that I actually enjoy seeing this club do well. Whereas some here seem to take some bizarre satisfaction in seeing the club flounder - the "I told you so" keyboard warrior element.

  On 04/05/2013 at 02:33, Ron Burgundy said:

I'm starting to think I'm in the minority here in that I actually enjoy seeing this club do well. Whereas some here seem to take some bizarre satisfaction in seeing the club flounder - the "I told you so" keyboard warrior element.

You're a quality poster Ron, but that's just a load of garbage.

  On 04/05/2013 at 02:33, Ron Burgundy said:

I'm starting to think I'm in the minority here in that I actually enjoy seeing this club do well. Whereas some here seem to take some bizarre satisfaction in seeing the club flounder - the "I told you so" keyboard warrior element.

Not exactly enjoying it, but you are close, at least as far as I am concerned. I am confused by what is going on, but I have some tentative ideas about what it may be all about. There is a kind of satisfaction in discovering that you do have some sense of the pattern - it's not enjoyable, but it's better than being totally and unhappily in the dark. If i can see what is the problem, I am better off than I was before there was any diagnosis. Not to be able to say "I told you so" - more for myself, in that we are wired to want to understand.

Making the whole experience of being a Melbourne supporter far worse at the moment is that, in addition to the pain of what's happening to our team, there are also a whole lot of very assertive fellow-supporters telling you in no uncertain terms that you are clueless and stupid. Insult to injury. They are all sincere and passionate, but there they are, contradicting you, whatever your thoughts might be. I suspect that if we all swapped positions and then continued the discussion, none of us would find it helped one iota. The problem for us is that we aren't seeing the club doing well; we want to, but we aren't, and it isn't clear what change will bring that about. "Wait, and trust" is up against things continuing unacceptably bad.

The floundering represents some possible hope, in that enough and deep enough floundering must sooner or later precipitate change - and if the present is unacceptable, and the hoped/believed-for future improvement just doesn't appear to be getting any closer, then change has the attraction of breaking an awful impasse. It's not "bizarre satisfaction" so much as desperation. Guilty, your honour.

  On 04/05/2013 at 02:33, Baghdad Bob said:

Were you there? I was. The work rate was terrible. No run, no pressure, dispirited and lacking in confidence.

Unfortunately I saw the same as you in my loungeroom, watching the tele. We were awful.

If the Lions kicked better they would have won by 12 goals with 6 babies in the side.

As with a few sides, they play crap footy until they play us and then we give them a one week revival. As for the good sides, well they just thump us.

I understand our player deficiencies, I just don't understand our effort deficiencies.

  On 04/05/2013 at 02:27, Jaded said:

The club should react out of fear of becoming irrelevant. Absolutely.

I wish this club was more fearful of failure, but sadly it seems accepting of it, as are some of our supporters.

I actually understand what your saying Jaded but I don't think you understand what I am saying

Making reactionary decisions are not good practice. Let the right process happen - if the board come out and say we're sacking Neeld and are able to articulate the reasons why (which indicates risks, strategy etc etc has all been considered) then I am happy to support that decision

If the Schwab situation happens with Neeld I fer this club will remain irrelevant as you state....

As much as we need success we need good management and stability - I'll repeat what you purpose is reactionary and does not come accross as a good business decision no matter what you believe. You and I will never have all the facts as we are not privldged to the inside information. We need to trust the people in charge.... if not vote them out at the next AGM

I am reapeating myself - but if Neeld is sacked I think the board should step down as well

  On 04/05/2013 at 01:36, PaulRB said:

I actually believe that Neeld is establishing the foundations for a prosperous period for the MFC. He identified where our list was at, where our fitness was at, where our FD and program's were at, and where our culture and leadership was at. And he identified that ALL these areas were well below elite level and needed rapid change.

He has started to implement that change, and the rewards for this change will be evident later this season and in full bloom in 2014. But only if we hold the line and maintain faith in Neeld.

Go Demons

Seems a little convenient, Paul. And if he were to be sacked now, hypothetically, why would these changes he's implemented not work under a new coach? Are you saying they'll dissipate once he's gone?

Why change coach only to replace them with someone who going to do the same thing?

If the problems with the team (i.e. mid-field, leadership, no A-levels, sub elite fitness) require the same remedies (I.e. work and time) then why change coach.

If we're going to blame and work through coaches based on their ability to rapidly convert a sows ear into a silk purse, we shall be waiting forever.

I've said before that a large portion of the "problems", I believe are rooted in poor work rate. It is up to the coach to energise his players. It is not a stretch to expect that a more experienced coach with a track recording of doing so could get our players working to AFL standard. It's not simply a lack of fitness. There's no intensity.

  On 04/05/2013 at 02:33, Baghdad Bob said:

Were you there? I was. The work rate was terrible. No run, no pressure, dispirited and lacking in confidence.

they worked hard on the structures from what I saw studying the replay.

My first impressions from the live TV were as you said,,, not enough intensity & urgency. But after watching the replay thru & thru, I could see the players trying to focus on getting into positions to build the zones.

This was the mistake I made initially as well, from watching live, I judged them from my old ways of traditional footy. Not being used to defensive zones, it looked completely wrong to my eyes as I didn't understand it.

But the proof was in the pudding Fan. the Lions thought they were going to break the game right Open, but they couldn't break our shackles.

The commentators said the same thing. They also thought the Lions were going to crack us, & run over us but they couldn't get away from us & until the 15 minutes or so, we were right in the game to win it.

We went fairly well, & that was with us mucking up our disposals to one another, causing us much more hard work.

This defensive zone stuff is not natural to traditional footy minds, & it took me watching the replay over & over, to start to see it.

It is taking shape, & obviously that is why all in the footy dept are backing it.

  On 03/05/2013 at 12:08, RobbieF said:

I think that if you look at say, Carlton you'll see that they have a great midfield but need KPP's, they would kill for a Cloke and even though the midfield is important, you need someone to kick it too and to kick goals.

Sure I understand that, it just seemed curious that the midfield was being used as an excuse when we have so heavily invested in the forward line. The 2 forwards we traded in are ready made, experienced forwards. I would have thought that one experienced forward and an experienced midfielder would have been a better fit, but maybe the opportunities to do that just weren't there.

  On 04/05/2013 at 02:33, Ron Burgundy said:

And I'm the one setting a low bar?!

....

As an aside, GWS is a club participating in the most elite AFL competition in the land. They're hardly Pooraka under 9's.

Happy to stand corrected, but I don't think any other side has kicked 12.2 in a quarter against GWS this season.

So yep - I absolutely loved that quarter. In fact, I'll take that every week of the year, thanks.

I'm starting to think I'm in the minority here in that I actually enjoy seeing this club do well. Whereas some here seem to take some bizarre satisfaction in seeing the club flounder - the "I told you so" keyboard warrior element.

That is self-righteous nonsense and you know it.

GWS are a bunch of teenagers led by a delusional lunatic. They are all potential and little experience. We got beat up on by Setanta. Setanta. FCS.

I did not love that quarter - I was relieved to see it. That's it. It meant absolutely nothing. What did mean something was the way we backed up against Brisbane - and gave little. You jump up and down about beating kids. Whoop de do.

As for your care for the club, well let's not let your self-esteem inflate further, shall we? You are not in the minority about caring about success. The irony is your poo-pooing bailey and he won more games! How much did you care then?

Get the message: everyone here cares - only the precious wave it around as a virtue to gain the attention of others.

And I "set the bar" realistically - we are crap and 6 years of performance is very good evidence to base that on. We are a club that make bad decisions and poxy excuses for them. We find new and inventive ways to hamstring ourselves and undermine our achievements. That is the truth - that is what we have done. Neeld has only shown that he is a continuation of that pattern and more's the pity. I fervently wish to be wrong. Everyone who wants Neeld gone wants to be wrong. But we have no evidence that he can coach the most basic aspects of the game, bond the players or even understand why we fail.

So yeah, let's celebrate beating up on teenagers.

  On 04/05/2013 at 04:28, dee-luded said:

they worked hard on the structures from what I saw studying the replay.

My first impressions from the live TV were as you said,,, not enough intensity & urgency. But after watching the replay thru & thru, I could see the players trying to focus on getting into positions to build the zones.

This was the mistake I made initially as well, from watching live, I judged them from my old ways of traditional footy. Not being used to defensive zones, it looked completely wrong to my eyes as I didn't understand it.

But the proof was in the pudding Fan. the Lions thought they were going to break the game right Open, but they couldn't break our shackles.

The commentators said the same thing. They also thought the Lions were going to crack us, & run over us but they couldn't get away from us & until the 15 minutes or so, we were right in the game to win it.

We went fairly well, & that was with us mucking up our disposals to one another, causing us much more hard work.

This defensive zone stuff is not natural to traditional footy minds, & it took me watching the replay over & over, to start to see it.

It is taking shape, & obviously that is why all in the footy dept are backing it.

If that's what you equate to trying hard, this team is in worse trouble than I thought.

  On 04/05/2013 at 01:36, PaulRB said:

I actually believe that Neeld is establishing the foundations for a prosperous period for the MFC. He identified where our list was at, where our fitness was at, where our FD and program's were at, and where our culture and leadership was at. And he identified that ALL these areas were well below elite level and needed rapid change.

He has started to implement that change, and the rewards for this change will be evident later this season and in full bloom in 2014. But only if we hold the line and maintain faith in Neeld.

Go Demons

Funny you say that: the list, fitness and leadership all appear to be at all-time lows, lower than they were before he arrived.

You say "believe" because you take what he says at face value.

Hasn't shown an inkling of what he promised over an 18 month period. Not even close. In fact, it progressively becomes more distanced.

But hey, we don't want to make erratic decisions to cause instability. Eradicating those that failure are the last thing you want to do...........

  On 04/05/2013 at 01:19, Bossdog said:

So....If what posters are saying.......If Neeld and our boys win this week.......All this crap (for the past66pages) goes away....Neeld and the players love each other.......The club will have turned around.....Neeld will be our saviour....and every body here will be gushing about all the players and the coach.......

Fair dinkum.........This is the worst thread I have seen and wont read the crap on here again.....

This thread is exactly what the long suffering demons fans are. Long suffering supporters who are extremely frustrated, and without any answers or hope for the club they love. This thread should be used in university studies on the psyche of footy supporters.

It's real, it's raw it's us who have had enough of failure at the MFC

timD, Must agree, how we backed up against Brisbane was far more important than the last quarter blowout against GW$.

I was happy for the players, but to back it up the way they did against an undermanned lions, to not tag Moloney ALL DAY.

I am losing faith in Neeld really fast as i just don't think he is qualified to do the job.

He wants to do it, but can he

18 months is long enough to get a good look.

  On 04/05/2013 at 04:46, timD said:

That is self-righteous nonsense and you know it.

GWS are a bunch of teenagers led by a delusional lunatic. They are all potential and little experience. We got beat up on by Setanta. Setanta. FCS.

I did not love that quarter - I was relieved to see it. That's it. It meant absolutely nothing. What did mean something was the way we backed up against Brisbane - and gave little. You jump up and down about beating kids. Whoop de do.

As for your care for the club, well let's not let your self-esteem inflate further, shall we? You are not in the minority about caring about success. The irony is your poo-pooing bailey and he won more games! How much did you care then?

Get the message: everyone here cares - only the precious wave it around as a virtue to gain the attention of others.

And I "set the bar" realistically - we are crap and 6 years of performance is very good evidence to base that on. We are a club that make bad decisions and poxy excuses for them. We find new and inventive ways to hamstring ourselves and undermine our achievements. That is the truth - that is what we have done. Neeld has only shown that he is a continuation of that pattern and more's the pity. I fervently wish to be wrong. Everyone who wants Neeld gone wants to be wrong. But we have no evidence that he can coach the most basic aspects of the game, bond the players or even understand why we fail.

So yeah, let's celebrate beating up on teenagers.

Is that the same bunch of teenagers led by a delusional lunatic who are currently giving the ladder leaders a run for their money, just like they did Melbourne?

Bring Sheedy to the MFC as a mentor. It's a no brainer with our current plight.

  On 04/05/2013 at 05:14, T-34 said:

Is that the same bunch of teenagers led by a delusional lunatic who are currently giving the ladder leaders a run for their money, just like they did Melbourne?

The teenagers are now 5 goals down against a team that has treated this game like an off season jolly.